Free Dance Cup of China

[dorispulaski]

http://www.isuresults.com/results/gpchn2011/gpchn2011_IceDance_FD_Scores.pdf

Those PCS marks for B&S are shocking high, I think.

 

[Mrs. P]

I think the slow part is way too long and drags the program down. Going with the same kind of program as last season was not really a great idea. Would love to have them skate to Cinema Paradiso again.

I don't think it would be a foreign concept if the Shibs scrapped this program after their last GP next week Maybe not for GPF if they qualify, but for Nationals and Worlds?

That said, I don't think this program is a complete failure. I know everyone thinks it's the same program, but really if you look at the steps and the transitions, it's not. I do agree that maybe they need to do without the slow music cut.

On the other hand, their SD needs work, so I think it's a matter of deciding priorities at this point.

 

[Buttercup]

IMO, the problem is not something that just happened during the 2011-12 season; it's been an ongoing process. Last year was about as bad.

The Eurosport guys commented about how good the Shibutanis are but that they are limited as a sibling team, noting that it takes something special to transcend that. I agree, and would suggest that someone in Canton look up as many of the Duchesnays' and Kerrs' programs and sit down for a viewing marathon with the Shibs. They are wonderful technically but are being painted into a corner with their programs, and I don't think Marina and Igor really have any idea what to do with a sibling team.

B/S wouldn't be so overmarked if Russia had real contenders to push.

Well, we lost a lot of teams this year--

Samuelson & Bates
Crone & Poirier
Chock & Zuerlein.

All that their best were top 12 at worlds type teams.

So things are a little thin.

But now we have
Gilles & Poirier
Samuelson & Gillis
Chock & Bates
and Hubbell & Donahue,

so actually we have a net gain of one, but these four teams are just getting their feet under them...but I expect to see great improvement over the season.

And I hope Vanessa Crone finds a partner.

 

[gmyers]

http://www.isuresults.com/results/gpchn2011/gpchn2011_IceDance_FD_Scores.pdf

Those PCS marks for B&S are shocking high, I think.

Looks like in PCS they have moved up to P/B level and S/S have stayed at last years.

 

[blackswanphoto]

Revisit Cinema Paradiso? .

This is a team that already is and looks young. Best not to remind people of their junior career just yet, I think.

Maybe later.

It was a lovely program.

They are young and look young. So better have them skate to something more appropiate instead of trying to make them into something they are not. I say the should go back to Cinema Paradiso. They have nothing to lose. The thing that boggles me is that after Finlandia they had so much time to change or fix these programs but nothing changed. What were they thinking? The programs did not get good feedback on the first outing. They changed D/W program after feedback.

 

[Mrs. P]

IMO, the problem is not something that just happened during the 2011-12 season; it's been an ongoing process. Last year was about as bad.

The Eurosport guys commented about how good the Shibutanis are but that they are limited as a sibling team, noting that it takes something special to transcend that. I agree, and would suggest that someone in Canton look up as many of the Duchesnays' and Kerrs' programs and sit down for a viewing marathon with the Shibs. They are wonderful technically but are being painted into a corner with their programs, and I don't think Marina and Igor really have any idea what to do with a sibling team.

B/S wouldn't be so overmarked if Russia had real contenders to push.

LOL at this.

Anyway, I guess the thing is the Shibs has done this type of program just twice for the FD. (Yes they done similar for OD/CD in the past, but I mean you have to do them there) They've actually done a range of programs in their junior career and somehow because they won bronze with this type of program in their first year as seniors, I guess it makes sense that people are complaining that they're playing it safe.

I think the issue right now is that S/S is still quite young. 17 and 20. D/D and K/K are amazing but how well would S/S do with programs done for skaters in their mid 20s or even early 30s? I think the challenge is finding a style that works for where they are -- quite mature for their age technically, but still very young artistically. They're going to go though these growing pains for a while -- but I don't think that means they're doomed.

 

[CARA]

Shibutanis are hardworking and intelligent persons. They'll develop in due time.
Oh, and both of them are very driven, which in this sports, is a good thing.

 

[Buttercup]

I think the issue right now is that S/S is still quite young. 17 and 20. D/D and K/K are amazing but how well would S/S do with programs done for skaters in their mid 20s or even early 30s? I think the challenge is finding a style that works for where they are -- quite mature for their age technically, but still very young artistically. They're going to go though these growing pains for a while -- but I don't think that means they're doomed.

I first saw the Shibs at 2009 JW and was quite impressed. But it's now three seasons later, and they're still doing the same sort of thing. I don't think they're doomed, but I do think that more than any other team in Canton, they are in real need of outside choreographers. And while I can't see them doing something like Ruled by Secrecy or Missing, they need some examples of sibling teams who thought and performed outside the box.

As for B/S, you know it's true...

 

[gold12345]

Winning a medal your first time out at Worlds is hard... Suddenly expectations for the Shibutanis have skyrocketed. I think they are doing more than fine. No need to panic and start all over again on programs, I don't think. 2nd place is still great.

 

[Mrs. P]

I first saw the Shibs at 2009 JW and was quite impressed. But it's now three seasons later, and they're still doing the same sort of thing. I don't think they're doomed, but I do think they more than any other team in Canton, they are in real need of outside choreographers. And while I can't see them doing something like Ruled by Secrecy or Missing, they need some examples of sibling teams who thought and performed outside the box.

As for B/S, you know it's true...

I'll stand on my earlier point from the Ice Dance thread on The Edge forum that I feel that it's hard for people to see that they have grown leaps and bounds technically -- especially after Maia went through quite the growth spurt. The fact is -- working on tech is not as sexy as venturing artistically, but it's one of those things that has to be done.

But I'd agree with you that it would be a good idea to get some inspiration while they try to figure out the best style for them.

To be honest, I prefer the Russian junior teams dominating the JGP right now. And also the team that is rising from the juniors -- Ksenia Monko and Kirill Khaliavin. I guess everyone is paranoid after what happened with I/K so maybe they don't feel like promoting the juniors? Blah.

 

[colleen o'neill]

:disapp: I am so bummed over B/S programs..*sigh*...I really dislike this "look" they're sticking her with costume-wise. Not only was their Latin? dance trick-or-treat, this wasn't far removed. There were some very nice elements, sure , but the program as a whole is a dead loss to me. A waste of some really sumptuous music.

I'm not saying they shouldn't have won. I'm sorry to see them win with these vehicles.If they were going to use the ballet music from Faust , I wish they'd kept the feeling of the ballet.

 

[Mrs. P]

:disapp: I am so bummed over B/S programs..*sigh*...I really dislike this "look" they're sticking her with costume-wise. Not only was their Latin? dance trick-or-treat, this wasn't far removed. There were some very nice elements, sure , but the program as a whole is a dead loss to me. A waste of some really sumptuous music.

I'm not saying they shouldn't have won. I'm sorry to see them win with these vehicles.If they were going to use the ballet music from Faust , I wish they'd kept the feeling of the ballet.

Yes, I know....the costumes totally did not. work. at. all. And I know I keep harping on this, but what is with her posture? It seems she covers it up by doing all these flamboyant dance moves. I expect better from a Russian ice dance team.

 

[dorispulaski]

colleen, If it is Walpurgis Night, shouldn't the costume effect be Halloween?

It's in the SD that her orange & black Halloween look so didn't work.

In fact, if you're going to do Halloween in Latin America, shouldn't it be Mexican Day of the Dead outfits?

This one seems er---appropriate:
http://www.parade.com/images/-v5/news/2010/1226/main-swell-on-wheels.jpg

or these

http://www.culture24.org.uk/asset_arena/6/74/80/308476/v0_master.jpg

 

[dorispulaski]

Yes I think the choice of music is part of covering up her posture issues. It has to be pretty glaring to bother me; I'm not one of the posture police, but her body gets nearly parallel to the ice like a speed skater.

Well, if she can't skate upright, she'd better skate as a demon, witch or a gorilla.

Maybe next year they'll do Planet of the Apes soundtrack. OK, that's a bit cruel, but...

 

[Mrs. P]

Yes I think the choice of music is part of covering up her posture issues. It has to be pretty glaring to bother me; I'm not one of the posture police, but her body gets nearly parallel to the ice like a speed skater.

Well, if she can't skate upright, she'd better skate as a demon, witch or a gorilla.

Maybe next year they'll do Planet of the Apes soundtrack. OK, that's a bit cruel, but...

Doris, you crack me up. And you too, Colleen. =)

I'm not usually the posture police type either, to be honest, but it's so noticeable and given that they're getting PCS scores they're getting, I'm going to nitpick.

 

[dorispulaski]

Yes, that's how I feel about it too. That is just not level 9 skating skills (which is what they were given by several judges).

 

[Blades of Passion]

Jana Khokhlova needs to find a good partner and throw these Russian kids off the horse.

 

[MikiAndoFan#1]

Jana Khokhlova needs to find a good partner and throw these Russian kids off the horse.

:agree:

 

[wallylutz]

http://www.goldenskate.com/forum/sh...na-Predictions&p=588797&viewfull=1#post588797

It's just the SD. Don't you want to wait until the competition is over before you declare "I told you so?"

I still think B/S was highly overscored. Given the levels that the Shibs left on the table, I say it would be reasonable for them to be in the lead by 3-4 points NOT 8. B/S program was sloppy in places.

Anyway, we'll see how they both fare tomorrow.

I told you so.

 

[dorispulaski]

Jana Khokhlova needs to find a good partner and throw these Russian kids off the horse.

I certainly hope so. I Jana Khokhlova. Such panache!