How did we get to this point regarding PCS?

[FlattFan]

At the Finlandia Trophy, you can see the SP of Mao Asada and Anna Pogorilaya here

Mao's
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4lTe8B9jsWE

Anna's
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7AE-Jc5s5ws

How is Mao's PCS only 32.32 vs. Anna's PCS 31.91. Anna skated to Por Una Cabeza and it could be to any music. It's like she doesn't even know what music she's skating to. No movements that match with the music at all. The program is extremely generic. It was incredible that the PCS is so close.

How is this possible? Is this where figure skating is now? Really depressing and disappointing.

If it were up to me
SS - Mao would be 8.5, Anna 7.5
TR - Mao 8.0, Anna 7.5
CH - Mao 9.0, Anna 2.0
PE - Mao 8.5, Anna 6.0
IN - Mao 8.5, Anna 1.0

 

[Daniel1998]

Uuh, I think i'm going to do myself a favour and mute this thread before the fists start flying. LOL

 

[Barb]

At the Finlandia Trophy, you can see the SP of Mao Asada and Anna Pogorilaya here

Mao's
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4lTe8B9jsWE

Anna's
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7AE-Jc5s5ws

How is Mao's PCS only 32.32 vs. Anna's PCS 31.91. Anna skated to Por Una Cabeza and it could be to any music. It's like she doesn't even know what music she's skating to. No movements that match with the music at all. The program is extremely generic. It was incredible that the PCS is so close.

How is this possible? Is this where figure skating is now? Really depressing and disappointing.

If it were up to me
SS - Mao would be 8.5, Anna 7.5
TR - Mao 8.0, Anna 7.5
CH - Mao 9.0, Anna 2.0
PE - Mao 8.5, Anna 6.0
IN - Mao 8.5, Anna 1.0

that is not new, historically ISU pair pcs to tes, I mean, just see Evgenia pcs at worlds. Except to that chinese girl (I don´t remember her name), the poor girl landed the jumps but judges were really cruel with her pcs.
And It does not help that Mao always does whatever she wants, judges send her the message they don´t want 3f-3l and she does, they don´t want her 3a and she does it, etc. they see her like an obstinate person.

 

[Rissa]

At the Finlandia Trophy, you can see the SP of Mao Asada and Anna Pogorilaya here

Mao's
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4lTe8B9jsWE

Anna's
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7AE-Jc5s5ws

How is Mao's PCS only 32.32 vs. Anna's PCS 31.91. Anna skated to Por Una Cabeza and it could be to any music. It's like she doesn't even know what music she's skating to. No movements that match with the music at all. The program is extremely generic. It was incredible that the PCS is so close.

How is this possible? Is this where figure skating is now? Really depressing and disappointing.

If it were up to me
SS - Mao would be 8.5, Anna 7.5
TR - Mao 8.0, Anna 7.5
CH - Mao 9.0, Anna 2.0
PE - Mao 8.5, Anna 6.0
IN - Mao 8.5, Anna 1.0

Personally, I disagree with every single word of that statement. I loved the program and the performance and I thought the PCS were right.

Now here's the deal: maybe it's about you and not about Anna or the judging? Maybe your perception isn't the be-it-all -end-it-all of the figure skating judging? How about it?

ETA: just to clarify, I thought Anna's PCS were right whereas, personally, I would have scored Mao higher than she was because that SP is a class on its own in terms of choreo and Mao did a pretty good job on interpretation. (And I'm sure she'll get better at it.)

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

Now here's the deal: maybe it's about you and not about Anna or the judging? Maybe your perception isn't the be-it-all -end-it-all of the figure skating judging? How about it?

Agree....what were talking here is just a case of Personal Component Scoring being treated as a benchmark for everyone. Drawing a conclusion is fine but expecting everyone to value the same aspects of PCS as you is pointless and a little insulting.

Is it possible to mute a thread? I know you can ignore users but their threads don't seem dissapear otherwise my life could actually be TSL free. I can dream

 

[FlattFan]

Taste is subjective but wow, if people can't see that then it is what it is.
Now, look up Mao's 2009 exhibition program to the same music and it was so superior in every aspect. That was Mao 7 years ago.

ISU likes brainless soulless programs now. It is depressing.

 

[Wo|flax]

Anna 2.0

Anna 1.0

go in

I'm not sure the judges know numbers below 5 exist.:think:

 

[tulosai]

Sincerely, FlattFan, you have given me my biggest laugh of the week. Many thanks.

 

[Rissa]

Taste is subjective but wow, if people can't see that then it is what it is.
Now, look up Mao's 2009 exhibition program to the same music and it was so superior in every aspect. That was Mao 7 years ago.

ISU likes brainless soulless programs now. It is depressing.

I did see Mao's ex. And I still loved Anna's performance and I thought her PCS were right. It certainly wasn't a soulless brainless program to my eyes. I guess that you'll have to deal with the fact that people do enjoy performances that you don't. And the fact that not everybody is enamored with Mao to the point of not being able to appreciate other skaters.

 

[kwanatic]

ETA: just to clarify, I thought Anna's PCS were right whereas, personally, I would have scored Mao higher than she was because that SP is a class on its own in terms of choreo and Mao did a pretty good job on interpretation. (And I'm sure she'll get better at it.)

Agreed. I thought Anna's PCS were fine. She's improved her skating over the last year or so and while I wouldn't put her in the same class as Mao in most PCS categories, I do think her 31+ was deserved.

Considering Mao's performance I think she could have been a bit higher but, traditionally, she's scored a bit lower in PCS relative to some of the others. I do think that has a lot to do with her technical woes even though it shouldn't. We all know when you're landing jumps left and right your PCS magically rise even if it isn't warranted...just look at Elizaveta Tuktamysheva: in 2014-2015 when she was nailing her jumps without fail her PCS skyrocketed even though the components side of her skating hadn't really changed. Ever since her jumps went AWOL again her PCS have plummeted.

I thought Anna was very good and deserved her scores. Who did I prefer? Mao...pretty much always Mao because I love her skating. But that doesn't mean that Anna's skating wasn't good or without merit.

 

[Tolstoj]

At the Finlandia Trophy, you can see the SP of Mao Asada and Anna Pogorilaya here

Mao's
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4lTe8B9jsWE

Anna's
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7AE-Jc5s5ws

How is Mao's PCS only 32.32 vs. Anna's PCS 31.91. Anna skated to Por Una Cabeza and it could be to any music. It's like she doesn't even know what music she's skating to. No movements that match with the music at all. The program is extremely generic. It was incredible that the PCS is so close.

If it were up to me
SS - Mao would be 8.5, Anna 7.5
TR - Mao 8.0, Anna 7.5
CH - Mao 9.0, Anna 2.0
PE - Mao 8.5, Anna 6.0
IN - Mao 8.5, Anna 1.0

Well, i respect your opinion, but this isn't an objective point of view.

Both programs are amazing, and Anna has two beautiful programs this season, from what i've seen here most of the FS fan agree with this.

Actually to me, i would have scored more on the PCS both programs.

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

Considering Mao's performance I think she could have been a bit higher but, traditionally, she's scored a bit lower in PCS relative to some of the others. I do think that has a lot to do with her technical woes even though it shouldn't. We all know when you're landing jumps left and right your PCS magically rise even if it isn't warranted...just look at Elizaveta Tuktamysheva: in 2014-2015 when she was nailing her jumps without fail her PCS skyrocketed even though the components side of her skating hadn't really changed. Ever since her jumps went AWOL again her PCS have plummeted.

Mao did have a nice margin in PCS over the field in the LP. A lot of the women skated well in the SP and the technical merit for the jumps in her SP was not world class: no 3A, no 3Lz, no 3-3. Gordeeva in her prime could come out here and skate circles around everyone but wouldn't get high PCS either without competitive jumps.

 

[mary01]

Mao did have a nice margin in PCS over the field in the LP. A lot of the women skated well in the SP and the technical merit for the jumps in her SP was not world class: no 3A, no 3Lz, no 3-3. Gordeeva in her prime could come out here and skate circles around everyone but wouldn't get high PCS either without competitive jumps.

The technical merit is and should be reflected in the technical score and NOT in the presentation score. if it does then the judges are not be following the scoring guidelines, like they should!

 

[solani]

Mao and Anna approach their programs very differently. Mao is serene whereas Anna attacks her programs, she's a very aggressive skater. I can see why Anna's approach might not be appealing to everyone, but that doesn't mean that it's without merit.
And because the comparison between Anna's SP and Mao's exhibition program to "Por una cabeza" came up - I much prefer Anna's SP. Mao is such a lyrical, smooth skater, not that her exhibition program was bad, but Anna's sharp aggressiveness is something that fits that tango.

 

[mary01]

At the Finlandia Trophy, you can see the SP of Mao Asada and Anna Pogorilaya here

Mao's
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4lTe8B9jsWE

Anna's
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7AE-Jc5s5ws

How is Mao's PCS only 32.32 vs. Anna's PCS 31.91. Anna skated to Por Una Cabeza and it could be to any music. It's like she doesn't even know what music she's skating to. No movements that match with the music at all. The program is extremely generic. It was incredible that the PCS is so close.

How is this possible? Is this where figure skating is now? Really depressing and disappointing.

If it were up to me
SS - Mao would be 8.5, Anna 7.5
TR - Mao 8.0, Anna 7.5
CH - Mao 9.0, Anna 2.0
PE - Mao 8.5, Anna 6.0
IN - Mao 8.5, Anna 1.0

I totally agree, I was thinking the same a few days ago when i was watching Finlandia trophy. why is it so hard for some judges to score a better skater and a better performance more, factors like SS, IN, PE should always be Much higher for a veteran skater like Mao Asada, her amazing edgework, complete control of speed, and amazing presentation where she hit's the note at the right moment is something we as an audience have come to expect of her, because we are soo used to see quality skating, but I rarely see her fully rewarded for it. then there are other PCS factors like CH and TR and once again it really puzzles me and makes me quite sad too, to see so little difference between Mao's scores and someone like Polina, We all know Mao Asada is one of the absolute best female skaters in the World, and her choreography is always choreography by one of the most famous choreographers in the world, this year especially her choreography stands even more out, with it's uniqness, complexity, elegance and creativity, why is it so hard to give a better skater with better choreography and artistry better scores, it soo wrong when I see the little gap on so many levels and just hurts my heart to witness!

 

[andromache]

Y'all act like Anna Pogorilaya has the skating skills of Surya Bonaly and non-existent interpretation/choreography. Sure, a few years ago she was pretty atrocious performance, but believe it or not, skaters develop and improve!

I found the small PCS gap to be appropriate. Anna's SP is fantastic.

 

[gkelly]

I'm not sure the judges know numbers below 5 exist.:think:

Oh, they know, but they rarely have occasion to give those numbers to elite skaters.

Try watching, say, the first group of freeskates at a JGP, compare to the final group at the same event, and to the final group at a senior championships. The weaker juniors are not in the same league as the elite skaters, and that's one place you can see PCS well below 5.

Of course some weaker juniors might be much better at presentation and interpretation than they are at skating skills or TES, so they might manage to get the occasional 5s there. But skaters who are struggling with technique rarely have as much ability to perform as well as skaters who have mastered the techniques.

Also, even the weaker juniors on the JGP may be the best skaters in their own countries. Think of all those younger low-level skaters who may get there someday but are still developing now, or junior age and older skaters who will never be good enough to compete internationally. Lots of PCS in the 2s and 3s at those levels.

PCS in 1s and even 0s would usually be either for very low levels, not much past beginners, or else for skaters who are capable of somewhat better at least on skating skills (though probably not 5s and higher) but are having a bad day, or who are so focused on getting their elements executed that they ignore the presentation side of the sport -- that day, or always in their training as well as while competing.

 

[Daniel1998]

In my opinion the judges have basically given Mao an ultimatum- either you bring all your technical elements, clean, rotated, and on the right edge, or we're not giving you the component marks to win anything this season.

 

[mary01]

Mao and Anna approach their programs very differently. Mao is serene whereas Anna attacks her programs, she's a very aggressive skater. I can see why Anna's approach might not be appealing to everyone, but that doesn't mean that it's without merit.
And because the comparison between Anna's SP and Mao's exhibition program to "Por una cabeza" came up - I much prefer Anna's SP. Mao is such a lyrical, smooth skater, not that her exhibition program was bad, but Anna's sharp aggressiveness is something that fits that tango.

It's funny that you bring Mao's Por Una Capeza up, because I think that program in particular shows Mao attacking the choreography with style fitting a tango, meaning she did it when the choreography needed her too, I personally think Por Una Capeza is one of these programs that shows how Mao has a temperament skating style she showcases when it's needed, but she just does it in a more balanced way, showcasing, elegance, refined movement, and polish at the same time. That's one of the things that makes Mao Asada stand out as a matured artist, she is capable of showing attack and temperament when it's needed, but ONLY does it when it's needed, meaning you know if you give her a classical piece like Nocturne she will not look like a speed skater and out of tune with the music. Mao is the kind of artist who listens to the music and adapts to it, and that shows her versatility as a performer and artist, and that's why I never see an awkward cringe-worthy movement from her i soo often see from the young skaters, who don't seem to listen to the music, and show the same skating style no matter what kind of music they are skating too!

 

[mary01]

In my opinion the judges have basically given Mao an ultimatum- either you bring all your technical elements, clean, rotated, and on the right edge, or we're not giving you the component marks to win anything this season.

Whether Mao brings all her big tricks, is up to Mao, and no-one else, as long as she is following the skating guidelines, the judges have no legitimate right to demand anything more from her, or to underscore her on that shallow, ridiculous basis.

That aside why should a skater be in top form from the very beginning of the season, no skater usually is and should be, and if they are then they are peaking at the wrong time, because all the big competitions are later in the season.

That aside just having all kind of jumps, a 3A and some of the most difficult combo's is a gift, especially when you are one of the oldest competing skaters, meaning it's something we should appreciate but can't expect since it's not the norm to have this kind of high technical skills but the exception. Some of you talk as if it's a given that we should get to see an 8 triple program with 3A and 3-3 and as if a dosin of women are doing that on regurlar basis. We should be happy and grateful that Mao is still willing to put her body under soo much stress and hard training to maintain these skills the judges so often have taken for granted, please remember that!