Particularly those doing a supposedly authoritative job. Doctors, dentists, policemen..... You want to ask them if their mothers know they're skipping school.As I get older and older young people seem younger and younger.
Particularly those doing a supposedly authoritative job. Doctors, dentists, policemen..... You want to ask them if their mothers know they're skipping school.As I get older and older young people seem younger and younger.
Even after war they still seem warm to them, or at least they didnt lose warmth to those that they already had it towards such as the aforementioned Shcherbakova.before the war Russia skaters etc also..
I dont know how serious you are being but, trivial celebrity involvement is akin to the tiktok marketing scheme. It can generate momentary attention but it wont develop the emotional attachment or relation to athletes required for "real" fans.I wonder if Taylor Swift would consider lacing up a pair of skates. Maybe it could do wonders!
On one hand I agree that successful athletes can garner interest, especially in the USA, but at the same time Chen is reigning OGM and absolute record holder. Even when Russia wasnt winning much before the last decade skating was still considered an intrinsic sport to the culture, girls were still interested in learning because the discipline is considered perhaps even equal to ballet in its sophistication. Again, I'm not saying it is or isnt, im just saying thats how people there judge it and thats important to their interest. As such we eventually achieved the level we are at. So again I think the root issue lies in what I was saying earlier.Do you know what would get USA interested in figure skating again? Winners and long careers. We love people who win. That's it. If they don't win, at least stick around for more than 4 years and be a good personality, so that we remember you for the next Olympics.
Quad axel is a good hook for sure though, but Ilia also has to back it up with major international titles and not bomb on NBC every year at the Nationals. The fact that we can't watch any videos on Youtube NBC channel for more than a couple weeks now is also killing USA interest. Nathan Chen's performances are still up from 4 years ago, but you can't watch Ilia at all. They took down his 2023 GPF SP from this year, but somehow Shoma's 2023 GPF free skate is still up. Makes no sense. The only full performance you can watch of Ilia on USA Youtube is from his GP Skate America 2022 when he landed 4A, and it's from Eurosport, not NBC.
I will say that the quad axel absolutely did hook me though. I was only half-following Nathan Chen by the time of Beijing and had no idea there was a kid named Ilia Malinin doing 4A until I saw it on Youtube with the Eurosport video. I really didn't even know he existed until that video titled "Ilia Malinin produces first Quadruple Axel in Figure Skating Grand Prix history!" (775k views) caught my eye. I missed the whole controversy about the Beijing selection. By the time I saw the video, it was actually 2 months after he did it too, and the GPF was already finished. I think Ilia is also a lot more striking and charismatic on the ice than off the ice, where he can sometimes be pretty awkward still, but no one watches men's FS for the interviews unless it's Johnny Weir vs. Evan Lysacek. That tension and cattiness was entertaining high drama.
And sadly, I agree with @Rebecca Moose, that US will only ever really care about ladies figure skating. Artistic expression in men isn't culturally appreciated on a wide scale, not in the way that Asia or Europe does or can appreciate it. Guys are supposed to be playing football, baseball, or basketball. Isabeau has a video of 8.4 million views from 2022 Nationals when she came in 4th and did a very balletic, pretty-princess routine. Nathan Chen's winning Olympic routine? 1.3 million views.
Edit: I should also say that even on Peacock, it's hard to find skating. It's 3 days and done. There is no selectable tile for figure skating on the Peacock Sports page, while there are tiles for track and field and speed skating. It's like FS doesn't even exist here.
On one hand I agree that successful athletes can garner interest, especially in the USA, but at the same time Chen is reigning OGM and absolute record holder. Even when Russia wasnt winning much before the last decade skating was still considered an intrinsic sport to the culture, girls were still interested in learning because the discipline is considered perhaps even equal to ballet in its sophistication. Again, I'm not saying it is or isnt, im just saying thats how people there judge it and thats important to their interest. As such we eventually achieved the level we are at. So again I think the root issue lies in what I was saying earlier.
Malinin's quad axel can garner interest from someone like you because you already have reference on what it means, but people who arent already in the sport wont care. I could try to explain to you that I recently saw an athlete do pullups with a total of 300kg on his body but this wont make you interested in calisthenics because you didnt ever have a reason to care in the first place. Its just numbers, maybe impressive numbers even to you but it doesnt give something to relate to long term. You have seen many impressive numbers and statistics on many things in your life that you still dont care about.
Give Donovan all the prizes!!! (and invite him to all the shows!!!)Donovan Carrillo has probably done more of that than Nathan Chen, Ilia Malinin, Alina Zagitova, Evgenia Medvedeva, Shoma Uno and Kaori Sakamoto combined. (not including Yuzuru as the outlier). A skater from Mexico, the smallest of small feds, with 472K in Insta followers...... Donovan would win that award, whatever it is, along with the costumes.
While I am up there with the best cheering when my own favourites get big numbers on tiktok or youtube (or weibo), I do try to remember that it's not the world's most reliable indicator. As far as I can see the two biggest actual performances on youtube (as apart from uploaded tiktoks) are two tiny girls, Starr Andrews' 'Whip My Hair' and an adorable little Asian dressed as a ladybug. And let's not forget that every celebrity on those platforms is outviewed regularly by kittens doing such impressive feats as batting each other on the nose. Or meowing. Or falling asleep.I dont know how serious you are being but, trivial celebrity involvement is akin to the tiktok marketing scheme. It can generate momentary attention but it wont develop the emotional attachment or relation to athletes required for "real" fans.
Let's also not forget, he did have a pretty long career. Okay, so most of the biggest audiences that he skated to were due to the Japanese men and Russian women bringing them, but he and those audiences were shown on US TV etc for years. Didn't help the sport in the end (and to be fair, being good for the sport wasn't his, isn't really anyone's job no matter what TSL thinks) so what can someone else do?On one hand I agree that successful athletes can garner interest, especially in the USA, but at the same time Chen is reigning OGM and absolute record holder.
Realistically, the awards are simply a piece of puffery (what can you expect when the agent for at least one of the nominees us running the thing?) and I'd bet good money on them, at least for the last couple, choosing who they want to award something to and then fitting the awards around them. Sometimes they get one right... by accident.Just to bring it back to the actual topic of this thread, which is the ISU awards. Fairly innocuous and meaningless to me, a feel-good award but I don't really understand why they're being held during Art On Ice in February, would move it to the Worlds gala or banquet.
Here's Taylor Swift with a few of her besties. (This was 2014. Michelle Kwan's then-husband was running for Governor of the state of Rhode Island. Quite a few celebrities/friends of Michelle gave endorsements.)I wonder if Taylor Swift would consider lacing up a pair of skates. Maybe it could do wonders!
Figure skating may never be considered intrinsically tied or valuable to US culture in the way it is in Russia, so I think the best that we can do here is have consistent champions and familiar faces to keep the popularity alive. The lack of a consistent ladies' champion has really hurt popularity of FS in the US.
Let's also not forget, he did have a pretty long career. Okay, so most of the biggest audiences that he skated to were due to the Japanese men and Russian women bringing them, but he and those audiences were shown on US TV etc for years. Didn't help the sport in the end (and to be fair, being good for the sport wasn't his, isn't really anyone's job no matter what TSL thinks) so what can someone else do?
I think Ilia could have that long career. He is only 19 years old, so he has the time to build up the fan base. If he performs at the level he was at the GPF at the worlds he will win his first world title. That should help some more. Also USFS needs to stop depending solely on NBC to promote the sport because they are major reason why the sport is dying because of the horrible coverage that NBC has provided. Last years world's was particularly bad with the only live or same day coverage of the single events being in the wee hours of the morning. This year the tapped coverage of 4CC's was also in the early morning on E! for reasons that escape me. One good piece of news is that both 4CC's and Youth Olympic Games figure skating coverage is still available on replay on Peacock if you want to see it. I really think that if Ari really wants to build a fan base in the United States setting up a Nationwide tour, with current and past Olympic stars like they used to have in the 1990's might do a lot more than these tacky award shows to build a fan base. People need to be able see skating to know that it is out there. Also the USFS needs to start putting events like Skate America in bigger venues so more can actually go to them. I mean one was held the club rink in Norwood, MA of all places. Nationals also needs to be held in different locations around the country instead of the same few places. How about having Nationals in Salt Lake City where the 2034 Winter Olympic Games will be held to start building fan base for when the Olympic Games are there.Do you know what would get USA interested in figure skating again? Winners and long careers. We love people who win. That's it. If they don't win, at least stick around for more than 4 years and be a good personality, so that we remember you for the next Olympics.
Quad axel is a good hook for sure though, but Ilia also has to back it up with major international titles and not bomb on NBC every year at the Nationals. The fact that we can't watch any videos on Youtube NBC channel for more than a couple weeks now is also killing USA interest. Nathan Chen's performances are still up from 4 years ago, but you can't watch Ilia at all. They took down his 2023 GPF SP from this year, but somehow Shoma's 2023 GPF free skate is still up. Makes no sense. The only full performance you can watch of Ilia on USA Youtube is from his GP Skate America 2022 when he landed 4A, and it's from Eurosport, not NBC.
I will say that the quad axel absolutely did hook me though. I was only half-following Nathan Chen by the time of Beijing and had no idea there was a kid named Ilia Malinin doing 4A until I saw it on Youtube with the Eurosport video. I really didn't even know he existed until that video titled "Ilia Malinin produces first Quadruple Axel in Figure Skating Grand Prix history!" (775k views) caught my eye. I missed the whole controversy about the Beijing selection. By the time I saw the video, it was actually 2 months after he did it too, and the GPF was already finished. I think Ilia is also a lot more striking and charismatic on the ice than off the ice, where he can sometimes be pretty awkward still, but no one watches men's FS for the interviews unless it's Johnny Weir vs. Evan Lysacek. That tension and cattiness was entertaining high drama.
And sadly, I agree with @Rebecca Moose, that US will only ever really care about ladies figure skating. Artistic expression in men isn't culturally appreciated on a wide scale, not in the way that Asia or Europe does or can appreciate it. Guys are supposed to be playing football, baseball, or basketball. Isabeau has a video of 8.4 million views from 2022 Nationals when she came in 4th and did a very balletic, pretty-princess routine. Nathan Chen's winning Olympic routine? 1.3 million views.
Edit: I should also say that even on Peacock, it's hard to find skating. It's 3 days and done. There is no selectable tile for figure skating on the Peacock Sports page, while there are tiles for track and field and speed skating. It's like FS doesn't even exist here.
Well, of course they are. As are all "fan favorite" awards. No harm in that. We cannot realistically expect anything of substance to come out of them no matter who is running the show.Realistically, the awards are simply a piece of puffery ...
Yes, but they could at least pretend it isn't rigged...Well, of course they are. As are all "fan favorite" awards. No harm in that. We cannot realistically expect anything of substance to come out of them no matter who is running the show.
Well if skating is a thriving sport in Latin America then I guess you're right and I'm wrongThe question has nothing to do with "Western" and masculinity, in such broad stereotypical terms. The questions are much narrower, toward countries themselves.
Last I checked, Mexico, Central and South America were "West" (whatever that is). Countries where machismo thrives, at least in some parts, because I do not want to be stereotypical myself. And Donovan, even wearing the blingiest of bling costumes, costumes so shiny your eyes hurt, is expanding the sport in those areas.
Yes, I will keep beating this horse until ... well, you know.
Well if skating is a thriving sport in Latin America then I guess you're right and I'm wrong
Well the discussion was about cultivating a thriving community of skating in regions where there is not so. Donovan brought the flag where it wasnt, so he got attention, I havent seen an obvious effect on the sport itself from him.And where in my post did I premise anything on "thriving".
Canada is "rebuilding." It hapens in sports.Nathan Chen didn't bring FS back to 1990s popularity, but I think his wins and consistency kept it on live US TV and saved it from being in the ditch, which is where Canada is currently. :/
I dont know how serious you are being but, trivial celebrity involvement is akin to the tiktok marketing scheme. It can generate momentary attention but it wont develop the emotional attachment or relation to athletes required for "real" fans.
Fair point about the super bowl I suppose. I actually forgot that existed let me be honest. I think there are still issues with long term retention as we have discussed earlier about more intrinsic things, like the lack of American competition in skating as compared to football which is a massive factor, and other cultural differences.Impossible to predict what her involvement would or wouldn't do..She got a bunch of kids to watch the Super Bowl which is no small feat. At this point, why not try anything?