ISU warns Skate Canada

[ancientpeas]

Here is my point though: Skate Canada should have given this more thought. I don't think any bribery was going on. I think it was bad corporate decision that reflects poorly on them and drags Tessa into it because she is the "name" attached to it. Maybe in the future they will use better judgement.

But I agree: 80$ earrings vs doping and judging scandals is a false equivalency. But, honestly, who okayed this? Did no one consider that it might be used to stir up controversy?

 

[ChanClan]

I am Canadian, and I already gave my two cents so, go read them if you want.

 

[GGFan]

Want to be super-clear that the issue here was *not* about an *athlete* giving gifts to judges.

I do not see anything in Hersh's reporting to suggest that Tessa was involved in Skate Canada's decision to give Hillberg & Berk earrings as gifts. (And again, the gifts to judges were not even from Tessa's collection for H & B.)

As far as I can see, Tessa's only so-called "involvement" is that Skate Canada decided to give earrings from her collection as gifts to skaters (to skaters, not to judges).

I think it's fine that the ISU gave a warning about appearance of impropriety to Skate Canada about Skate Canada's decision.

Contrary to the title of this thread, Hersh did not report that Skate Canada was warned "for perceived bribery" -- which is hyperbole, IMO.

I'm not sure why the clarification was necessary. I did not refer to Hersh, who himself used the Tessa connection with his cute wordplay in his original article title. I hope no one thought I was alleging anything about Tessa herself. Rather I was talking about why gifts can be problematic in general ethically and why competitors might feel uncomfortable if gifts are exchanging hands. I went out of my way not to make it about any specific athlete or Skate Canada.

 

[Bcash]

Lol@all this effort at portraying this as nothing. Tessa's line or not, this whole thing is about "appearance" and "perception". And it's not good, whether that comes from Judges's misunderstanding or not.

Wether judges can or cannot be swayed by 80 dollars doesn't matter one bit.

 

[ice coverage]

... I think it's important to think through these issues without thinking about the specific individual involved (that is I think Tessa is great and I don't think Canada was doing anything evil here).

... As an athlete I also wouldn't want to feel like there was some obligation to buy small gifts for judges--perhaps I wouldn't even want to buy a gift but I would feel like I was at a disadvantage competitively if I did not. ...

... I hope no one thought I was alleging anything about Tessa herself. ...

If you were not alleging anything about Tessa herself, then it was weird (IMO) that you referred to "the specific individual involved."
You said, "specific individual" -- as opposed to "specific federation."

And weird (IMO) that out of left field (IMO) you commented that "As an athlete I also wouldn't want to feel like there was some obligation to buy small gifts for judges --perhaps I wouldn't even want to buy a gift but I would feel like I was at a disadvantage competitively if I did not."
None of the discussion in the thread has been about athletes giving gifts to judges -- so I remain mystified as to why your post went in this direction.

 

[noskates]

First of all - does Tessa REALLY need to bribe the judges for good scores? Have you seen V&M skate lately? The idea that they would have to buy their scores is absurd.

But - I think giving anything with a skater's name attached to it is a slippery slope. Maybe that should have been thought through a little better. The line between amateur and professional gets blurred enough.

Better to be safe than sorry.

 

[GGFan]

If you were not alleging anything about Tessa herself, then it was weird (IMO) that you referred to "the specific individual involved."

And weird (IMO) that out of left field (IMO) you commented that "As an athlete I also wouldn't want to feel like there was some obligation to buy small gifts for judges --perhaps I wouldn't even want to buy a gift but I would feel like I was at a disadvantage competitively if I did not."
None of the discussion in the thread has been about athletes giving gifts to judges -- so I remain mystified as to why your post went in this direction.

The original report was about Skate Canada seeming (at least to some judges) like they might be trying to curry favor on behalf of Tessa and Scott. Lest anyone think I was focusing on her, her line, or Skate Canada I included the parenthetical to say that I don't think they did anything wrong.

In terms of competitors they are always affected. If I'm minding my own business as an ice dancer and I hear that Skate Canada may gifts that could be seen as trying to curry favor I might feel like myself or my federation should be doing the same thing. This all has to do with appearances.

So feel free to remain mystified, as I am free to make these points which are completely related to the ethical issues involved.

 

[ice coverage]

The original report was about Skate Canada seeming (at least to some judges) like they might be trying to curry favor on behalf of Tessa and Scott. Lest anyone think I was focusing on her, her line, or Skate Canada I included the parenthetical to say that I don't think they did anything wrong.

In terms of competitors they are always affected. If I'm minding my own business as an ice dancer and I hear that Skate Canada may gifts that could be seen as trying to curry favor I might feel like myself or my federation should be doing the same thing. This all has to do with appearances.

So feel free to remain mystified, as I am free to make these points which are completely related to the ethical issues involved.

Before seeing your most recent post, I edited my post above to add, "You said, "specific individual" -- as opposed to "specific federation."

Yes, you are free to conflate "individuals"/individual "athletes" with "federations."

And I am free to find your conflation in need of clarification.

 

[GGFan]

Before seeing your most recent post, I edited my post above to add, "You said, "specific individual" -- as opposed to "specific federation."

Yes, you are free to conflate "individuals" and "federations."

And I am free to find your conflation in need of clarification.

Your lack of comprehension does not equal my conflation. I said specific individual because Tessa's name was brought up. What I was specifically doing was trying not to have a conversation about her or Skate Canada (hence the parenthetical that says explicitly that I thought they did nothing wrong), but you continue to want to offer wisdom that you do not actually have.

I was having a discussion about skating and ethics and I stand behind the point of my post, which is that ethically gifts can cause issues.

 

[ice coverage]

Your lack of comprehension does not equal my conflation. ...

Agree to disagree.

... but you continue to want to offer wisdom that you do not actually have. ...

I was not attempting to offer "wisdom."
But since you say that I was, then maybe you have heard of the expression "pot calling the kettle black"?

... I was having a discussion about skating and ethics and I stand behind the point of my post, which is that ethically gifts can cause issues.

I too was having a discussion about skating and ethics. And I stand by my posts .

 

[GGFan]

Agree to disagree.



I was not attempting to offer "wisdom."
But since you say that I was, then maybe you have heard of the expression "pot calling the kettle black"?



I too was having a discussion about skating and ethics. And I stand by my posts .

Sorry but you were the one misreading my post and then trying to offer some noble clarification that was unnecessary. Hopefully you're done..

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Lol@all this effort at portraying this as nothing. Tessa's line or not, this whole thing is about "appearance" and "perception". And it's not good, whether that comes from Judges's misunderstanding or not.

Wether judges can or cannot be swayed by 80 dollars doesn't matter one bit.

More like, Lol @ all this effort at portraying this as something.

 

[WeakAnkles]

Lol...probably more funny than an actual big deal. Who would turn down free earrings?

What? Common sense? What is WRONG WITH YOU MAN?

This is SCANDAL OF EPIC PROPORTIONS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It makes Salt Lake City look like a little misunderstanding.

I called my friend who doesn't even like figure skating and even she is SCANDALIZED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

She has no idea who Tessa Virtue is, but what does that matter when there is SCANDAL TO BE HAD??????????????



Oy veh. Who needs The National Enquirer when we have Figure Skating Scandal du Jour? Every Jour.

Countdown to the next Scandal Of Epic Proportions begins NOW!

 

[ChanClan]

Also, if I was given $80 earrings as a gift from the event, I'm pretty sure my thoughts would be "oh what a lovely gift" not "oh these people are trying to bribe me so that I give their skaters better marks". This whole thing really is nothing. If the judges misunderstood the gift, then that's there fault, not Skate Canada's (I mean, SC's fault for giving them out in the first place but not the misunderstanding part)

I don't believe Skate Canada was actually trying to do something, I think they were incredibly stupid to think it be a good idea since Tessa is connected to H&B but not bribery.

 

[mrrice]

I probably shouldn't make light of this but, when I was judging dance, we received what was called a 'Host Gift" at every event we worked. There was also a "Hospitality Booth" at our events that was for the coaches, choreographers, and their support staff. The only thing I was never offered was cash. Other than that, the sky was the limit. We got booze, clothing items, and every sort of food item you can imagine. I think there's a very fine line between bribing and being a great host.

There were events that I enjoyed and events that I did not. Some hosts get wind that you didn't enjoy your time there. I remember getting a nice card and some Brandy special delivery, along with a judging request. I guess you could call that Bribery.......I guess I just didn't see it that way. Did cash change hands??? If not, I don't see this as a big deal.

 

[Osmond4gold]

Lets see, 9 judges in Dance at $80, if my math is correct that's a whopping $720, or $560 USD's. Come on Canada, after Sochi spending $51 billion, the most of any Olympics (up from their budgeted $12 billion), not to mention all those cars, homes and dachas given away to athletes and friends, or that medical bill, yikes, but I digress, ...have you no shame? :shame: Yes, ...your maple leaf has surely fallen.

I am sure Nose Ring Gate will soon be next, and that's on YOU! Thanks for nothing, Skate Canada.

 

[blueberryhill]

What? Common sense? What is WRONG WITH YOU MAN?

This is SCANDAL OF EPIC PROPORTIONS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It makes Salt Lake City look like a little misunderstanding.

I called my friend who doesn't even like figure skating and even she is SCANDALIZED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

She has no idea who Tessa Virtue is, but what does that matter when there is SCANDAL TO BE HAD??????????????



Oy veh. Who needs The National Enquirer when we have Figure Skating Scandal du Jour? Every Jour.

Countdown to the next Scandal Of Epic Proportions begins NOW!

I agree 100% with your post.

I think that we should nominate Phil Hersh for the Pulitzer Prize. I'm sure the Chicago Tribune is kicking themself for letting him retire.

 

[GGFan]

The ISU said no one did anything wrong. The ISU, rightfully wants to be extra careful given its history. All they said was let's be careful about things like this because it can look bad. At the drop of a hat people think judges are corrupted so it's best to avoid these kinds of things altogether. I think we should be applauding them for having common sense to say so.

 

[WeakAnkles]

The ISU said no one did anything wrong. The ISU, rightfully wants to be extra careful given its history. All they said was let's be careful about things like this because it can look bad. At the drop of a hat people think judges are corrupted so it's best to avoid these kinds of things altogether. I think we should be applauding them for having common sense to say so.

MORE common sense.

What is WRONG with you people?

My goodness, don't you want to support doctors who treat carpal tunnel syndrome? How else is social media going to feed its endless appetite for SCANDAL and MANUFACTURED FURY?

Really, I ask you.

:furious:

 

[combinationspin]

First of all - does Tessa REALLY need to bribe the judges for good scores? Have you seen V&M skate lately? The idea that they would have to buy their scores is absurd.

But - I think giving anything with a skater's name attached to it is a slippery slope. Maybe that should have been thought through a little better. The line between amateur and professional gets blurred enough.

Better to be safe than sorry.

Yes, I‘ve seen them skate lately and loose the gold to P/C at GPF. Tessa and Scott didn‘t come back for another Silver medal at the Olympics, so they do need to bump their scores a little. (Just kidding )