Lakernik hints at changes to IJS

[Sam-Skwantch]

I think Lakernik gets a bad rap and prior to Sochi he discussed the positives and negatives of CoP in really good detail. I'm not a a frequent visitor of FSU but one thing I found while over there was this awesome article written by him.

http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/ind...oing-into-details-we-have-gone-too-far.82525/

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

In helping to create the COP system, I think he is responsible for the institution of tech calls that don't even analyze the take off point for ur jumps yet still institute draconian deductions that gives an advantage to those with extreme pre-rotation which is aesthetically unappealing, and the system has made it easier to heavily deflate high tech programs with harsh and or bogus calls and deflated GOE and to inflate lower tech programs with overlooked calls. Also, the new expanded range in GOE will make this process of reversing the advantage of high tech programs and inflating easier programs when needed even easier.

So if you think many UR calls are bogus, why would you give the tech panel more power to call URs on jumps that are pre-rotated? That would just cause more debate and controversy.

 

[Alex D]

A few thoughts,

Alexander Lakernik: In my opinion, we should simplify some of the approaches and make the system more consistent. It's too early to speak on the details, but the work is already going on.

The big issue for me with the current scoring is the lack of "free choice", while risk is often not rewarded. Let´s face it, a skater right now will sit with the coaches and often go for the most points, programs are full of elements, even though we know that the human mind needs to settle down from time to time to get excited again.

It is very seldom that we see something like of Rika Hongo, as skaters don´t want to miss out on points and leave no room to breathe. Instead and I hope nobody takes offence in this, they just put together the elements non stop, at times well placed, but quite often just somewhere in the program and the artistry level drops, while the technical one raises and programs become a bit of a banana at times.

Rika and this is what I so loved about her Riverdance, put all jumps right on beat, had an intro and a climax, combined with the lovely hook line of the instrumental part - she created a huge skate for the history books, but her points were nowhere near of others. In my opinion a neutral viewer doesn´t enjoy such results, he doesnt understand why such a great performance did not medal.

Lakernik: Now, these programs are too similar and the difference is only the number of difficult elements, by example in singles, the number of jumps. A long-term plan is to have two quite different programs: one more technical and one more artistic. The technical program could be something like current short programs or free skates. The artistic program could contain less difficult elements with a focus on the program presentation. The programs could be equal in length. This way, we can increase the number of medals by having technical, artistic and maybe overall winners.

For me, FS is about both, technical skills and presentation of those in an artistic fashion. To split it up, would lead to me only watching the artistry programs, as I find pure technical skates very boring.

Lakernik: First, I welcome any measures to make our competitions shorter as currently they are too long and the audience in the rink and TV viewers can hardly survive it all. Second, during the performances, the viewers should get as much information as possible about the points currently obtained. This is partly done already. Then the breaks should be filled with more information about performances and skaters -- we must study such possibilities.

I often sit at FS events from 6Am until midnight, I don´t mind it and at tennis my work days are hardly shorter. Of course, not everyone is such a crazy horse like me and admittadly, we do suffer under viewers in sports, who only come for the final hour or two.

The big issue, however, are the athletes who are not considered here. The beauty about sports before it became commercial was the accessibility. No matter, how good you were, you could qualify and go there. At the first years, you did not even have a qualification process, the fields in sport were quite open as long you could afford it.

This allowed a lot of new breed to join the movement and many countries who are successful today (Germany, USA, Canada) wouldn´t be where they are now, without people like Connolly or Hofmann. (first olympic medalists 1892). Just think about it, back in the days, athletes did compete at gymnastics, 100m and maybe Marathon - the same athlete! They wanted to be there and compete, present their country and promote the sport in their home nation.

We already lost a lot of this spirit and I would be very sad if it continues that way. It´s bad enough that the GP series is so limited, it just seems boring to me, if I always watch the same competition, just at another venue. I like the exotic skaters, the not top 10 crowd a lot. If competitions are going to be shorter, then either by cutting the fields down or by putting more pressure on the athletes, as they will have less time to recover or prepare.

In the end, the major goal is probably the TV slots, but this is silly. Every TV station will have an online stream for people that care, the main channel can then focus on the final 12 skaters - no need to cut it down there.

Also, who doesn´t want to see Krithakarn Bamrungketudom from Thailand on ice? She might be the next Yuna Kim!

Lakernik: By giving more explanations of how it works -- by written materials and by experts. Small details are not so important, but basic principles could be explained much better.

I agree, but will grandmother Laurene read all of that? I doubt it Most people at home, won´t research these things I am afraid. Still, some type of research page for fans, surely is nice but I doubt they have someone at the ISU, who would be willing to set this up. It all costs money, right?

In general, it would be good to get some people in, who want to support the sport. This was done to tennis about 15 years ago, it´s a major improvement but it requires trust and that new people are allowed in, even if they don´t have a big figure skating history or are just fans of the sport.

Lakernik: I am not afraid of any new events: Theater On Ice, team competitions, ultimate team skating, etc.

Team event´s are good for the spirit and athletes usually like them. It´s nice to compete with others and it opens up the brackets a little bit, as seen with some skaters, who won medals in team event´s, even though the solo event´s were out of reach. It´s good motivation

That being said, less is more at times. We have so many competitions already, even more will only hurt the skaters, they need to rest as well. It´s not about our entertainment alone, the health of skaters must come first so it should be taken with care to not overdo it.

Still, I support changes like a new exhibition format at the end of the season, a big show where athletes can improve their standing with sponsors and potential promoters for ice shows. They need the money of these jobs more than anything to keep their career going.


In conclusion,

it is good to think about how to improve the standing of the sport, but it should not be done in such a way, that athletes are left out or put under even more pressure than now. It´s also important to give the fans more ways to get good seats at events, make them affordable like now at Europeans and don´t demand half a months salary for a few hours in the fridge. There are many people who want to help the sport, you only need to ask.

 

[daphenaxa]

lol I knew we should have elected Didier

 

[YesWay]

I do agree that there should be medals for the best performances, as long as the programs are weighted equally or if the long program now received medals, since it is the video of a great performance that most people return to watch over and over again.

That reminds me... OT... but in addition to the existing scoring and medal awards... I'd love to see a whole bunch of Oscars-style extra awards...

eg.
"best acting",
"best music/interpretation/choreography",
"best costume",
"best jump/twist/throw/lift",
"best spin position",
"in-arena audience vote favourite",
etc etc. Those are just examples, I'm sure they could come up with some suitably frivolous categories.

Just for a bit of fun, really - although they could go as far as giving small monetary prizes for them.
They should be such, that the awards could end up going to anybody, regardless of their competition scores...

They could even make jump contests, dance-offs, etc an "official" feature of the galas - open to any skater who wants to try...

 

[Macassar88]

I think it would be nice to have an additional mandatory jump in the SP that would rotate between the 5 backwards jumps (Loop, Toe, Salchow, Flip, Lutz) where you have to do that edge and if you miss it, you don't get points.

 

[anyanka]

I don't trust anything Lakernik has to say ever since Sochi. End.

 

[russianbratz]

I wouldn't HATE the idea of a technical program and an artistic program (and, hell, the artistic program can be 2 and a half minutes too) except for the fact that, as PCS are currently scored (usually in tandem with the technical elements, and based on consistency) scores would become more lopsided towards favoring technically superior skaters regardless of other content.

Watching gymnastics during the Olympics made me think that a jump competition like Broadmoor should become the norm of all competitions. Not as a part of regular competition, but as it's own separate competition. It'd be like the gymnastics vault! Short and easy to show to non-skating fans to make them oooooh and ahhhhh at it. Or, perhaps a jumping program (literally only jumping, like compulsory jumping) worth ~30% and then a program with 4-5 jumping passes where there is a maximum limit on how many points the jumps can earn.

But that idea is still inferior to the current system where we get the best of both worlds. Go away Lakernik.

Correct me if I'm mistaken, but I'm pretty sure there already are jump competitions. There's one called the Great Aerial Figure Skating Challenge. I think this approach would be like bringing back figures. Turning aspects of figure skating into events, a la track and field. To me, figure skating is more than the sum of its parts. The pressure of doing a complete program adds to the merit of the competition, and makes it far more entertaining. At the very least, I would want these different event to culminate in one score. Having separate medals for each would be like handing out participation trophies.

 

[karne]

I think it would be nice to have an additional mandatory jump in the SP that would rotate between the 5 backwards jumps (Loop, Toe, Salchow, Flip, Lutz) where you have to do that edge and if you miss it, you don't get points.

I agree. They do that in Juniors, I don't see why they shouldn't do it in Seniors.

I'd like a prescribed spin too, a basic position. Say, this season it's a flying camel that can change feet but must be in basic position on both feet. No donuts/catch feet/upside downs.

 

[cl2]

That reminds me... OT... but in addition to the existing scoring and medal awards... I'd love to see a whole bunch of Oscars-style extra awards...

eg.
"best acting",
"best music/interpretation/choreography",
"best costume",
"best jump/twist/throw/lift",
"best spin position",
"in-arena audience vote favourite",
etc etc. Those are just examples, I'm sure they could come up with some suitably frivolous categories.

Just for a bit of fun, really - although they could go as far as giving small monetary prizes for them.
They should be such, that the awards could end up going to anybody, regardless of their competition scores...

They could even make jump contests, dance-offs, etc an "official" feature of the galas - open to any skater who wants to try...

Without having to change any IJS rule, TV networks (or even ISU) can harness social media for that. "Vote for your favorite costume," "vote for your favorite pair lift," etc., and actually give awards for the winners. Perhaps it might be a strategy to make lay viewers more involved and interested in skating? These awards may not be as coveted as gold/silver/bronze medals, but it underscores two points: that there is and always will be a difference between audience preference and technical scoring, but that non-medal contenders are also appreciated by viewers. Note that I say this coming from the opinion that I would much rather the scoring system retain technical integrity than be watered down for the sake of lay audiences.

 

[YesWay]

Without having to change any IJS rule, TV networks (or even ISU) can harness social media for that. "Vote for your favorite costume," "vote for your favorite pair lift," etc., and actually give awards for the winners. Perhaps it might be a strategy to make lay viewers more involved and interested in skating? These awards may not be as coveted as gold/silver/bronze medals, but it underscores two points: that there is and always will be a difference between audience preference and technical scoring, but that non-medal contenders are also appreciated by viewers. Note that I say this coming from the opinion that I would much rather the scoring system retain technical integrity than be watered down for the sake of lay audiences.

Yes! You almost completely described the intentions behind my suggestion... especially the parts I highlighted.

 

[karne]

Without having to change any IJS rule, TV networks (or even ISU) can harness social media for that. "Vote for your favorite costume," "vote for your favorite pair lift," etc., and actually give awards for the winners. Perhaps it might be a strategy to make lay viewers more involved and interested in skating? These awards may not be as coveted as gold/silver/bronze medals, but it underscores two points: that there is and always will be a difference between audience preference and technical scoring, but that non-medal contenders are also appreciated by viewers. Note that I say this coming from the opinion that I would much rather the scoring system retain technical integrity than be watered down for the sake of lay audiences.

The problem with such a suggestion would be that inevitably the thing would turn into a popularity contest. It would wind up having less to do with the outcome of the event and what went on on the ice and more to do with who has the most crazy fans to multi-vote for them.

 

[YesWay]

The problem with such a suggestion would be that inevitably the thing would turn into a popularity contest. It would wind up having less to do with the outcome of the event and what went on on the ice and more to do with who has the most crazy fans to multi-vote for them.

Judging would not be by the general public, or online.
Obviously it couldn't work like that, for the reason you just gave.

I didn't envisage many (if any) being decided by fans, and any that were... would be by the fans physically at the competition. Depending on the categories, they could be decided by local guests, celebrities, VIPs, skaters themselves, officials, whatever. Just not online.

Hence the only example I suggested that specifically involved the audience: "in-arena audience vote favourite"

And if people became crazy enough to go to competitions en masse, just to influence a small/fun audience vote... well, the higher attendances would be good for the sport :-D

 

[ice coverage]

Correct me if I'm mistaken, but I'm pretty sure there already are jump competitions. There's one called the Great Aerial Figure Skating Challenge.

If you are referring to the Aerial Challenge in Colorado Springs at the time of the Broadmoor Open:

In its first two years, it has had a limitation -- of being open only to U.S. skaters.
I think organizer Tom Zakrajsek would much prefer to have international competitors, but so far, the ISU has not sanctioned the comp.​

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BTW, something else only for U.S. skaters are the annual EDI Awards for Best Performances at U.S. Nationals.

Elements Considered
Artistry, Charisma/Appeal, Balance, Originality, Drama/Emotion, Music, Costuming, Humor, Showmanship, Quality, Theme, Technical Ability.

http://www.skatepsa.com/psa/Best-Performances.html​

The awards are given not by USFS, but by the Professional Skaters Association.

One award per discipline -- given for a junior or senior program (SP/SD or FS/FD) at US Nats.
It is not uncommon for EDI Award winners to not be senior gold medalist(s) at US Nats.

The winners get trophies (along with bragging rights ).

https://www.instagram.com/p/BJjbGqTAxxk/?taken-by=shibsibs
https://www.instagram.com/p/BJjZs-rA4aw/?taken-by=shibsibs​

Don't think prize money comes with the award.

---

Without having to change any IJS rule, TV networks (or even ISU) can harness social media for that. "Vote for your favorite costume," "vote for your favorite pair lift," etc., and actually give awards for the winners. Perhaps it might be a strategy to make lay viewers more involved and interested in skating? These awards may not be as coveted as gold/silver/bronze medals, but it underscores two points: that there is and always will be a difference between audience preference and technical scoring, but that non-medal contenders are also appreciated by viewers. Note that I say this coming from the opinion that I would much rather the scoring system retain technical integrity than be watered down for the sake of lay audiences.

The problem with such a suggestion would be that inevitably the thing would turn into a popularity contest. It would wind up having less to do with the outcome of the event and what went on on the ice and more to do with who has the most crazy fans to multi-vote for them.

Judging would not be by the general public, or online.
Obviously it couldn't work like that, for the reason you just gave. ...

karne was responding to cl2's idea regarding social media. Obviously .