Men Free Skating - 2013 Trophée Eric Bompard

[jaylee]

I think fans value hard work and overcoming adversity quite a bit! Myself included. But, for some of us, the untrained members of the peanut gallery, a skate that makes us feel like we do after watching a great movie or listening to a great live concert is so important. And, this desire for 'greatness' transcends nationality and regional loyalties. I for one was ecstatic when Denis Ten skated at Worlds winning Silver. The 'simplicity' of his program did not prevent me from feeling rewarded as a spectator. I lived "The Artist" when I watched him. And that is the thing with figure skating, when there is passion and natural "it" in the performer(s), one cannot help but feel it and it is grand! When I watched Patrick skate as amazingly well as he did to Four Seasons, I kept replaying Stephane Lambiel's rendition in my head. Stephane is the one I remember when I hear the song. When Patrick skated to Concierto de Aranjuez, it almost felt as if he had blighted something holy - all I could remember was Michelle K. For me that is the mark of a true artist, when he/she can attach and fuse him/herself to a music to the point where you cannot think of one without the other. Patrick Chan has tremendous skill and amazing speed - but I feel nothing when I watch him - zero/nill. A matter of taste I suppose, since his fans see him as an artist without equal. On to the next competition!

I guess I'm not getting your complaint. Not every skater "moves" me emotionally, but that doesn't mean that they're not artistic or just a technical skater. Patrick didn't move you. Okay. But he is more than a skater with "tremendous skill and amazing speed". And no, I'm not even a Patrick Chan fan; I have zero emotional investment in the guy.

Funny, when you mention Four Seasons and Stephane Lambiel, what I think of is "hideous zebra shirt." And when you say Aranjuez and mention Michelle Kwan, I think, "emotional comeback, great performances in the US", but not really a great program (pretty much everything she did post 2002 had pretty minimal choreography).

Anyway, I don't know who you're speaking for when you refer to "some of us, the untrained members of the peanut gallery." Because I'm certainly untrained and part of the peanut gallery, and I was moved by Patrick's performances here. I thought he was amazing. Just because a skater doesn't move you doesn't mean they're not a moving skater. There's a difference there. And you're conflating so-called "true artistry" with a mishmash of things here--the ability of a skater to make someone feel, the ability to "fuse themself to the music" (not sure why you think Patrick didn't do that?), and those are separate discussions. I'm not saying Patrick is an artist without equal, but he deserves more credit than you're giving him here for his performances at TEB. And his Aranjuez was certainly not a "blight"...

 

[Violet Bliss]

OMG sky_fly... how the heck could Yuzu lose to Chan?!?!?! What a fraud!!!!! :disapp:

Oh wait, let me actually go see the videos of how they skated. Okay, so Chan skated cleanly with 2 quads and Yuzuru messed up both quads

. I guess Chan perhaps deserved to win... although I would have placed him 2nd behind Yuzuru because he completely lacks artistry. *cue rant about how Chan's skating leaves you cold, inflation is in full swing, etc.*

Also, by your standa

rds sky_fly, can we officially call Yuzuru a headcase?

No, no. All Hanyu's problems are imposed and inflicted upon him by his evil Canadian coaches, choreographers and other support stuff. Hanyu needs to fire them all.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

On a less smart-alecky note, congratulations to Chan for a superb FS, and finally silencing people's criticisms of him being unable to skate two clean programs. :agree: And the first man to clear 100 points in TES!

I'm sad Yuzu had such a disastrous beginning... it really seems to shake him for the rest of the program and he seemed to just be going through the motions. He did get some favours from the judges though (one judge gave him a -1 for his botched salchow, and most gave him 0's for his 3F with edge call). He was my pick to win Sochi, but his inconsistencies are really making me lose faith in him. :disapp:

Fantastic skate by Brown!!! I loved the look on his face when his marks came up. Some technical issues, but no denying the performance -- I love that he makes me not even care that he lacks a quad, he's just that good. I actually thought he deserved slightly higher PCS than Hanyu in this segment, although the judges did give him the slight edge in performance/execution. And 80+ PCS is extremely good for being on the senior scene not very long and without a quad. Nevertheless,excellent result for his first GP medal! And the highest US men's score this season. :agree:

 

[emdee]

OMG sky_fly... how the heck could Yuzu lose to Chan?!?!?! What a fraud!!!!! :disapp:

Oh wait, let me actually go see the videos of how they skated. Okay, so Chan skated cleanly with 2 quads and Yuzuru messed up both quads. I guess Chan perhaps deserved to win... although I would have placed him 2nd behind Yuzuru because he completely lacks artistry. *cue rant about how Chan's skating leaves you cold, inflation is in full swing, etc.*

Also, by your standards sky_fly, can we officially call Yuzuru a headcase?

WTG Canadian skater guy.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

I'm pretty sure it's not. He'll be at almost 10 points above Chan in base values.

No, this math is wrong. A 4S is worth 10.5, so Hanyu's base score here (79.92) minus the single salchow plus the 4S would have been 90.02 points (versus Chan's 82.77). I guess you could say his BV would be 90.66 if his footwork were a level 4 (which adds 0.6 points), but then you could argue that if Chan's level 3 spins were level 4's, Chan's BV would be 0.9 points higher -- 83.67. That's still a difference of only 7 points, not 10.

 

[Srin Odessa]

I'm going through previous records to see how well the individual elements in Patrick's FS compares to past record holders:

Total Score FS - (Patrick Chan TEB 2013): 196.75
Previously - Patrick Chan (WC 2011): 187.96

TES FS (Patrick Chan TEB 2013): 100.25
Previously - Takahiko Kozuka (WC 2011): 98.53

GOE FS (Patrick Chan TEB 2013): 17.48
Previously - Takahiko Kozuka (WC 2011): 16.99

PCS FS (Patrick Chan TEB 2013): 96.50
Previously: Daisuke Takahashi (WTT 2012): 93.58

Is the risk worth it though even if he continually pops the 4S? Would the points with the popped 4S still be more than if he did 2 4T and taking out the repeated lutz? I mean if it is, wouldn't he be better off doing a nice 2A and getting +GOE on it than getting -GOE on a popped 4S attempt (sorry I am having trouble getting onto the ISU rulebook website so idk if he can replace the 4S with a 2A and keep his currently layout)?

He can use a 2A jump up to two times in his program since he doesn't have any currently. As for taking the 4S out, there's a significant opportunity cost to having two back to back 4T jumps. One has to be in combination for it to receive full credit. You also use up a jumping pass early in the program when there isn't a 1.1 multiplier. Either he or his coaching staff think a quad salchow is needed in order to backload his programs with three combinations.

The biggest risk would popping the 4S into a 3S. He could potentially Zayak himself if he doesn't downgrade one of the 3A jumps into a 2A. Yuzuru probably would be more consistent if he had two quad toes in a 5:3 jumping pass split. He would have to make up for the lower TES ceiling with better PCS and GOE. It seems reliable PCS is much more of an issue than his technical ability.

 

[Oreo]

Men's Victory Ceremony

Jason looks so happy he's about to burst. What a great guy.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Well...

A pretty disappointing competition overall, but Patrick Chan surely delivered. The only question I have is: How will he improve upon this in Sochi?

I think there were points in the program, as Ziggy said, that could have used more highlights, and he had level 3 on two of his spins (his last spin in particular was wonky and as a judge I would have given it a 0, maybe a 1, but not +2). Also I felt he was forward on a couple of his jumps and could have made them more effortless. This, of course, is nitpicking on what was otherwise a brilliant and practically flawless performance.

 

[Shayuki]

No, this math is wrong. A 4S is worth 10.5, so Hanyu's base score here (79.92) minus the single salchow plus the 4S would have been 90.02 points (versus Chan's 82.77). I guess you could say his BV would be 90.66 if his footwork were a level 4 (which adds 0.6 points), but then you could argue that if Chan's level 3 spins were level 4's, Chan's BV would be 0.9 points higher -- 83.67. That's still a difference of only 7 points, not 10.

Yeah, but 90.6 base is already enough for 110 points with good GOEs.

I admit that I used "almost 10" pretty leniently... And I wasn't talking about a perfect Patrick Chan program, just that Yuzuru can beat Patrick Chan skating well(but probably not this well).

 

[SquishyDumpling]

He can use a 2A jump up to two times in his program since he doesn't have any currently. As for taking the 4S out, there's a significant opportunity cost to having two back to back 4T jumps. One has to be in combination for it to receive full credit. You also use up a jumping pass early in the program when there isn't a 1.1 multiplier. Either he or his coaching staff think a quad salchow is needed in order to backload his programs with three combinations.

The biggest risk would popping the 4S into a 3S. He could potentially Zayak himself if he doesn't downgrade one of the 3A jumps into a 2A. Yuzuru probably would be more consistent if he had two quad toes in a 5:3 jumping pass split. He would have to make up for the lower TES ceiling with better PCS and GOE. It seems reliable PCS is much more of an issue than his technical ability.

For the 3S zayak, he can just turn the 3Lz-1/2 loop-3S into a 3lz-2T-2T no? He gets more GOE for the 3As anyways. Since he is going for a kinda unreasonable layout now with the 4S given his success rate, he might as well start off with a 2A and do a 4T-2T combo in the second half to get the multiplier and take out the 3Lz combo, but he'll probably be totally out of gas by the end of the program The BV would be about 3 pts lower than with a rotated 4S though, so I guess it's worth it. Nvm then....

Seems like poor Yuzu isn't living up to the hype hope he doesn't let it get to him....

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

I so badly want Yuzu to skate clean
and beat Chan, I don't want Chan anywhere near that Olympic Gold

Sorry, he's officially become a Sotnikova. Great SP, that positions himself for a win, but blows it in the FS. Textbook headcase.

 

[Kelly]

If there is anything Chan needs to improve is his arm movements, especially in the first half of his LP, there are still some airplane arms. Nevertheless, he is becoming a skating icon just like Plushenko and Yagudin.

 

[jaylee]

Sorry, he's officially become a Sotnikova. Great SP, that positions himself for a win, but blows it in the FS. Textbook headcase.

Eh? At Skate Canada, Hanyu made a major mistake in the SP (he blew his combo) that left him 8 points back of Patrick going into the FS, so he wasn't positioned for the win there. His FS then had multiple mistakes but he also did enough at that competition to move into 2nd overall (with help from Oda, but still).

So, I don't see how Hanyu is officially a Sotnikova.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Eh? At Skate Canada, Hanyu made a major mistake in the SP (he blew his combo) that left him 8 points back of Patrick going into the FS, so he wasn't positioned for the win there. His FS then had multiple mistakes but he also did enough at that competition to move into 2nd overall (with help from Oda, but still).

So, I don't see how Hanyu is officially a Sotnikova.

In the past (particularly the last GP season), Hanyu has skated excellent SPs, and then blows it in the FS. Like Hanyu, Sotnikova has had strong SPs followed by poor LPs. Although both have also had their share of poor SPs and then having to play catch up.

Also, I'm being tongue-in-cheek... I don't actually consider Sotnikova or Hanyu headcases. It's just that sky_fly is so rude about Sotnikova having poor skates and calling her a headcase, that it's ironic that her favourite skater has similar issues but because she adores him she'd never refer to him as a headcase.

 

[jaylee]

In the past, Hanyu has skated very good SPs, and then blows it in the FS. Although he also has his share of poor SPs and then having to play catch up.

Yeah, Hanyu has plenty of FS issues over the past. I thought he held himself together quite well after he missed both of his quads in the opening here. There's no real pattern to his consistency issues, though, that I can see. However, I don't think he looks at his best in this Olympic season. I'm not sure what it is, but overall, the programs, the jumps, the performances...not feeling it.

I don't actually consider Sotnikova or Hanyu headcases... it's just that sky_fly is so rude about Sotnikova having poor freeskates and calling her a headcase, that it's ironic that her favourite skater has similar issues but because she adores him she'd never refer to him as a headcase.

Ah, okay. Sotnikova's favorite skater is Patrick? That's cute.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Yeah, Hanyu has plenty of FS issues over the past. I thought he held himself together quite well after he missed both of his quads in the opening here. There's no real pattern to his consistency issues, though, that I can see. However, I don't think he looks at his best in this Olympic season. I'm not sure what it is, but overall, the programs, the jumps, the performances...not feeling it.

Oh I agree! I think he recovered marvellously from a technical standpoint. It's not like quads are easy to execute. And you could tell by his 3F that he had yet to settle into the program. After the axels though, his jumping quality was much more relaxed. Unfortunately, the program was gone because of the first two major errors. For all that people are crying about inflation, this FS of Hanyu (IMO) shouldn't have garnered higher PCS than Hanyu's Worlds FS last year, which was performed (IMO) with better jumps and artistry.

And yes, he's not performing his best this season. It's a shame, because we know he's capable of much more. I think the pressure is getting to him and he's so focused on the jumps that it appears that he's rushing into his quads, instead of just letting them happen.

However, he should take away from this competition that he got a PB in the short program that keeps him competitive with a clean Chan. And that he still managed a great score in the FS in spite of two major errors and recovered to execute the rest of the program flawlessly. :agree:

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

If there is anything Chan needs to improve is his arm movements, especially in the first half of his LP, there are still some airplane arms. Nevertheless, he is becoming a skating icon just like Plushenko and Yagudin.

I'm pretty sure this TEB performance seals it that he is a skating icon. Like Kwan, he doesn't even need to win the Olympics to prove that. He has skated arguably the best SP and LP ever skated. Maybe not in the opinion of haters, but certainly on paper and in the minds of those who truly appreciate the sport aspect of figure skating. Under 6.0, these programs would have received 6.0's across the board.

I mean, come on, 295 points. These records will not be broken for a long time, unless he's the one to do it.

Might we see 300+ at the Olympics? Time will tell!

 

[Mao88]

MEN'S FREE PROGRAM - VIDEOS (By Starting Order)

Warm-Up Group 1

1. Alexander MAJOROV (SWE) Free Skate
2. Nan SONG (CHN) Free Skate
3. Michal BREZINA (CZE) Free Skate
4. Florent AMODIO (FRA) Free Skate

Warm-Up Group 2

5. Han YAN (CHN) Free Skate, 2nd Copy, 3rd Copy
6. Jason BROWN (USA) Free Skate, 2nd Copy, 3rd Copy
7. Yuzuru HANYU (JPN) Free Skate, 2nd Copy, 3rd Copy, 4th Copy
8. Patrick CHAN (CAN) Free Skate, 2nd Copy, 3rd Copy, 4th Copy

Medal Ceremony

RESULT

Overall Result, Segment Result, Protocols

 

[Poodlepal]

If Patrick Chan would skate like that more often, he'd have no haters (well, no more than anybody else, anyway and there would fewer discussions of the judging system and if it's fixed/ineffective/stupid or whatever. Good work!

Jason was my favorite, though. If he didn't pop that axel, he'd be in the running for a silver. Hanyu's program seemed odd. He's very androgynous looking and, like Johnny Weir before him, almost seemed to be dressed as a bride. I don't know if that look will help him if it's a close contest between him and someone more traditionally masculine.

 

[tung]

:agree: And Chan's coaching situation evidently is working for him, whether others like it or not.

Congrats to Chan and Brown, and to Hanyu.

Kathy Johnson, Patrick's chief coach, is American, studied in Julliard School, in modern dancing, wrote book(s) on her subject, hired by Pat's mom, after seeing her son struggling with the quad jump with Krall. As the Chan women said, Pat's mom and her elder sister couldn't stand seeing their star falling all over at quad practice at Krall's tutorage. They say Johnson taught Pat the proper use of his muscles, and the athletic usage of modern dancing in both the jumps and of course the choreographic principle of figure skating, not so different from modern dancing principles. They stood by their choice, in spite of everything.

Reminds me of the new knowledge of bio-mechanics, perhaps Kathy's input to Pat borders or represents that discipline. Alberta, Canada, universities, as I know gives out doctorates on that discipline.

I couldn't wait to see Patrick get the Olympic gold in Sochii, sort of making it worthwhile to spend bundles to bring him to perform, solely, as main and only attraction, in his ancestral land, last year. I can tell people afterwards, that I entertained an Olympic legend, boasting rights that none can take away from me.