Mirai Nagasu to try triple Axel @ nationals

[gkelly]

The sport has advanced in that skaters are now doing programs that combine triple-triple combinations and difficult skills and difficult steps and connections between elements and sophisticated choreography.

Personal preferences aside, pretty much any past champion including Midori Ito could easily be beaten by several strong performances from 2010s skaters even by 6.0 standards of judging.

But more to the point, the depth of the ladies' field has gotten much stronger. Skaters who were easily in the top 10 a couple decades ago would struggle to make top 24 in today's context, even if everyone were competing under the same rules and tailored their program content accordingly.

You can find eras when some of those things were equally or perhaps more important than today, and you can always find individual skaters in past eras who excelled at one or more of the above. But on average, the performances that dozens and dozens of ladies are putting out today are much more difficult in terms of overall technical content (not just jump rotations) than medalists' performances from previous eras.

I'm sure we will see occasional triple axels and quads from a handful of women in coming years and decades. I don't expect that they will ever become the norm, and necessary to win, in women's competition until there is a significant change in equipment (or human anatomy or Earth's gravity, neither of which is likely) that allows female bodies to rotate more than 3 times in the air. Improved training methods may increase the frequency of such jumps from "almost never" to "sometimes," but they're not going to become "usual" any time soon.

 

[andromache]

I never said the 3A was the reason US ladies struggled in IJS. I said our focus on artistic components rather than improving technically put us way behind. When IJS did come, it took us a long time to get girls that could even touch the top skaters. What are the things remember from the Mao/Yuna years? Yuna's perfect technique and massive 3Lz+3T and Mao's 3A. Until Gracie, none of our ladies could do a consistent triple triple. I think now USFSA wants to focus more on technical content rather than have a Artistic performance.

I don't think USFSA ever emphasized artistry/components over technical content. Skaters from all over the world were technically on par or weaker than US skaters technically. There was a lot of excitement over Kimmie Meissner's technical capabilities. Yuna and Mao were exceptions, and 3-3s/3As weren't necessary until they came along and brought us the best in components AND athleticism. They were the exceptions. The rest of the top skaters in the world - Joannie Rochette, Laura Lepisto, Alena Leonova, Carolina Kostner, Miki Ando - all were doing 3-2s and/or underrotated/inconsistent/disastrous 3-3s, for the most part. Just like the US ladies.

It wasn't until 2012 that 3T-3Ts became necessary to the SP. LP, fewer 3-3s (and even fewer ones done well). Same year Gracie won silver at JW with her 3-3s. At the 2011 WCs, among the three medalists across both programs, only 2 3-3s were executed - one by Carolina in the SP and one by Yuna in the LP. The World champion Miki Ando had zero 3-3s.

ETA: If you consider how many 3-3s were done at the 2014 Olympics or 2016 Worlds, just look how far we've come.

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

Personal preferences aside, pretty much any past champion including Midori Ito could easily be beaten by several strong performances from 2010s skaters even by 6.0 standards of judging.

I strongly disagree here. Midori's skating ability was very under rated, and at her best would beat any skater since, under any judging system. Under COP, what she lacked in subjective "artistry" would be made up by her SS and TR marks. Probably Mao's Sochi LP judged under 6.0 would have beaten anything Midori put out there, but Midori had none of the issues on the lutz or with under rotation that held Mao back under COP.

 

[frida80]

The sport has advanced in that skaters are now doing programs that combine triple-triple combinations and difficult skills and difficult steps and connections between elements and sophisticated choreography.

Personal preferences aside, pretty much any past champion including Midori Ito could easily be beaten by several strong performances from 2010s skaters even by 6.0 standards of judging.

But more to the point, the depth of the ladies' field has gotten much stronger. Skaters who were easily in the top 10 a couple decades ago would struggle to make top 24 in today's context, even if everyone were competing under the same rules and tailored their program content accordingly.

You can find eras when some of those things were equally or perhaps more important than today, and you can always find individual skaters in past eras who excelled at one or more of the above. But on average, the performances that dozens and dozens of ladies are putting out today are much more difficult in terms of overall technical content (not just jump rotations) than medalists' performances from previous eras.

I'm sure we will see occasional triple axels and quads from a handful of women in coming years and decades. I don't expect that they will ever become the norm, and necessary to win, in women's competition until there is a significant change in equipment (or human anatomy or Earth's gravity, neither of which is likely) that allows female bodies to rotate more than 3 times in the air. Improved training methods may increase the frequency of such jumps from "almost never" to "sometimes," but they're not going to become "usual" any time soon.

Actually, you're absolutely right. Ladies are way better than they were in the past. One the reasons Yuna/Mao/Carolina dominated was because there was no one to challenge them. Now lots of ladies have similar content and have pushed the ladies field as a whole forward, rather the just a few top skaters.

I hadn't thought about it that way before, so thanks for this perspective. I think I got so frustrated that skaters like Boyang and Shoma are making history, while we ladies haven't done any new jumps since 2002. However Rika did land an 8 triple program in September...

 

[mrrice]

Tonya Harding was 20 when she first landed hers, and I know she attempted it before (but I don't think she attempted it in competition before puberty). Maria Butyrskaya landed many in practices, and she definitely wasn't doing them as a teenager because the flip and lutz were later additions to her jump arsenal. I think the fewer attempts reflects that skaters rarely need it to win. I think 1989 Worlds was the only World or Olympic event ever in which a skater must have had a 3A to win.

True, Maria was in her 20's, I think she was 21/22 when this video of her attempting triple axels appeared on youtube back in 1996 : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dqgbtAGaDfA

 

[Seren]

Count me as one who thinks she will do it in the warm up but not actual competition unless she has a less than stellar SP. If she is behind in the SP then it might be worth going for broke and trying it but if her SP is strong I don't think it's worth the risk.

 

[berry8]

What a great piece of news

 

[Kirei]

I think it's a smart strategy to announce it in Dec. There is no clear top 3 this year, and the field is really open.
This is a good way to get some attention and excitement and put her firmly in the mix! (Not just to her fans, but to the USFS, judges, commentators etc)

 

[Nigel]

Considering her coach's view point and focus on upping the technical ante in Nagasu's program(s), not surprised by this. If she has a good SP, it will probably go in the free skate. And, if she lands it successfully, I suspect, like always, the US judges will sort of ignore the < or << on some of her other jumps. This of course, does her no favors internationally. She still tends to "turn out" of many of her toe jumps, especially in combination, as her toe pick hits the ice...as if she was doing a power pull to make the rotation. Wish they would also focus on cleaning up the < and <<.

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

I suspect, like always, the US judges will sort of ignore the < or << on some of her other jumps.

I really hope this doesn't happen. It seems the international tech panels have gotten more strict with those calls this season, so the US would be wise to follow their lead and not ignore those errors from favorites like Mirai and Ashley.

 

[gkelly]

I suspect, like always, the US judges will sort of ignore the < or << on some of her other jumps

Do you mean that the tech panel will fail to call underrotations and downgrades (no < or << signs)? Or that the panel will call them but the judges will give positive GOE anyway?

 

[Ares]

This is pretty good 3 axel, would be approved for sure. :yay: Whether she will go for that let alone perform it that well at Nationals is though another kettle of fish. I can't believe that there are so many people beefing about it, give her credit where it's due regardless of her other issues Do you seriously think that practing 3 axel is seriously taking most of her attention from the rest? There's risk though with putting it into program that it may mess the rest but I would not focus on that.

True, Maria was in her 20's, I think she was 21/22 when this video of her attempting triple axels appeared on youtube back in 1996 : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dqgbtAGaDfA

I randomly came across this video about month ago I did not know that Maria was attempting triple axel at any point before that

 

[mirai4life]

best of luck to <3

 

[friedbanana]

Good luck, Mirai!

 

[NanaPat]

Um....Mirai and Mariah might be amusingly confusing

Kind of like Mihara and Miyahara?

 

[mirai4life]

It´s exciting of course, but I still think that she rather should train to get her other triples fully rotated... Maybe the lack of rotations will be ignored at Nationals, but international judges will not be that kind .

she's worked on those all her life. Do you think she's been sitting?
If she can do a 3A, go for it.

 

[ruffledgrouse]

Best of luck to her. Go for the gusto, kid :agree:

 

[frida80]

Kind of like Mihara and Miyahara?

And Elizaveta Tuktamysheva and Elizabet Tursynbayeva.

 

[NAOTMAA]

Frankly I think its a major unwise decision. She still has major ur problems AND still seems mentally weak when things go poorly. She fails the 3A and the whole program is bound to unravel. Plus we know Mirai can be dazzling in practice only to look lifeless in competition so her doing it brilliantly there holds little weight.

Nationals will be her biggest and most important competition of the year (unless she makes the worlds team) and she hasn't attempted it enough in other competitions to take the risk here when being clean is the most crucial for her. If she has some, even a little, competitive success with it then I would say go for it but she doesn't.

 

[Skater Boy]

Well I guess some skaters might find some jumps easier so maybe rotating the 3A is easier for Mirai? But somehow I doubt it. I don't know why and it isn't rational but I am worried should she fall well... she might not get it together too well.