2015 Four Continents Short Dance Feb 12 Seoul Time

[Florentina]

As far as the dancing part, CB took a huge risk by not taking the traditional ice-dancing concept of Paso. From dancing perspective, theirs is more expressive, more creative ... More refreshing as it does have a storyline ... clear concept of what the dance is about. If this is a dancing competition, they would win high points for great expression, lyrical movements, great lines/technique and concept and musicality.

I think that C/B have a great SD. However, I can't see that they took any extreme risks here. In any case, I completely disagree that portraying a storyline or not has anything to do with a dance's quality or the quality of performance. Dance is not necessarily about telling a story, it can be about a feeling or just about motion. Sometimes a storyline can help the performer to get across what they want to express but it's definitely not a must.

 

[Alba]

I think that C/B have a great SD. However, I can't see that they took any extreme risks here. In any case, I completely disagree that portraying a storyline or not has anything to do with a dance's quality or the quality of performance. Dance is not necessarily about telling a story, it can be about a feeling or just about motion. Sometimes a storyline can help the performer to get across what they want to express but it's definitely not a must.

I fully agree! In anycase, it is more difficult the other way around, not having a well known "storyline". All programs have a story though, a concept behind it. Those who don't are just bad choreography.

 

[pandatours]

All the DSC teams were delayed when flying out of Michigan and I believe they missed one of the first practices because of it. I agree they seemed more sluggish (probably from jetlag and traveling in general) and didn't have as much energy as they normally do, which really makes up for some of their weaknesses. I hope they rebound in the FD

 

[pandatours]

Shibs definitely won this SD IMO. W/P and C/B seemed swallowed up by the music. Not their best skates.

I'm really looking forward to the FD and to Worlds. I think the way this season has built towards a fight between W/P and P/C for gold at Worlds with C/B at bronze. While I love, love, love the Italians, they had an awful start to the season and even with their improvement at Worlds I don't think they can catch up by next month to warrant a spot on the podium. They are not at the Tessa/Scott level where they can sweep in and win without many international outings, and while I don't think last year's WC title was a fluke, a lot of it was dependent on their great programs last season.

I would really love to see the Shibs bring something special to their FD today and continue to close the point gap even more between them and C/B. I agree with others that they have been skating it relatively contained when the waltz really showcases what I originally loved about the Shibs: softness, fluidity, deep edges, and oh those twizzles!

Other than their first lift, C/B's FD doesn't do much for me. Madison gives great face throughout and they are a great pair but I'm not loving their programs this season. Same with W/P. Seasons grew on me but I don't think they don't have the best musical cuts. American in Paris is a more dynamic program, but Seasons is more...elegant? I think is the word I'm looking for.

C/B have improved almost 5 pts from the GPF, Shibs by almost 6 pts. W/P are down by 3 pts from the GPF but interestingly enough while their FD has the highest TES base value score, their SD has the LOWEST TES base value score (25.20) out of the top 5 teams at 4CC. It makes them more dependent on their PCS on a bad day like this. Did their twizzles change from the GPF? Their SD TES base value was higher then.

 

[Astrid56]

I think that C/B have a great SD. However, I can't see that they took any extreme risks here. In any case, I completely disagree that portraying a storyline or not has anything to do with a dance's quality or the quality of performance. Dance is not necessarily about telling a story, it can be about a feeling or just about motion. Sometimes a storyline can help the performer to get across what they want to express but it's definitely not a must.

In dance, you either have a storyline or a coherent concept. It should not be just a mix and match of different movements/lines or it will be just an empty performance. I know what it was like to dance without a definite coherent concept. If there's a coherent concept that the artists can relate, then communicating the intent of the performance would be much easier ... more meaningful. Compare DW's Waltz with the Shibs, you would see a remarkable difference.

 

[cheerknithanson]

I'm excited to see who'll rise to the top in the FD. This is going to be VERY interesting. VERYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY.

I actually will be excited if the ShibSibs win! It's possible. I haven't seen the videos yet cause I haven't had the time to yet, but I'm really surprised at the results but when I saw the protocols, it made sense.

As a side note, next season Gilles/Poirier should totally skate to "Come On Eileen" for their FD. Just HAD to say it!

 

[beabstress]

I'm not a fan of the Shibutanis, but I believe in giving credit where credit is due. I don't know why they aren't in first place heading into the free dance--they should be. I also don't know what they need to do to get ahead of Chock/Bates in standings/rankings. This pecking order within one's country business drives me batty! The judges in the men's short program didn't seem constrained by it--the U.S. bronze medalist is ahead of BOTH the U.S. silver and gold medalists, and the Canadian champion finds himself trailing his two teammates. The ice dance judges could learn something from that.

 

[humbaba]

Well, obviously I am speaking for myself. I find that the crowds are generally more subdued when Chock and Bates perform.

Which of these competitions did you attend? Just trying to figure out if your generalizations are based on eyewitness, in-the-arena observations.

 

[Matt K]

PCS should not be dependent on wild raucous crowds after one's performance.

 

[Kitt]

I'm not a fan of the Shibutanis, but I believe in giving credit where credit is due. I don't know why they aren't in first place heading into the free dance--they should be. I also don't know what they need to do to get ahead of Chock/Bates in standings/rankings. This pecking order within one's country business drives me batty! The judges in the men's short program didn't seem constrained by it--the U.S. bronze medalist is ahead of BOTH the U.S. silver and gold medalists, and the Canadian champion finds himself trailing his two teammates. The ice dance judges could learn something from that.

I agree that the Shibs should be ahead, I wonder if judges are prejudiced against sibling teams.

 

[cruzceleste]

I agree that the Shibs should be ahead, I wonder if judges are prejudiced against sibling teams.

Could it be that IJ agree with US Nationals placement for ID, but think that US Judges played favorite in Men nationals way too much?

 

[Mrs. P]

Could it be that IJ agree with US Nationals placement for ID, but think that US Judges played favorite in Men nationals way too much?

I don't think it's an apples-to-apples comparison. Neither Adam or Jason performed as well as they did at nationals in the SP. Josh got higher PCS in the FS at Nationals...so it's not like they're in that much disagreement.

 

[anyanka]

Shut the front door! The ShibSibs are finally getting some respect and took over from a wobbly W/P tonight! Would love it if they were scored over 70 but few complaints here. C/B were great tonight. Congrats to the top dancers, we have a race here, people!!

 

[Barb]

Probably it is better for the shibs 2nd place in sd, in cup of china they were first in sd and made mistakes in the fd.

 

[Alba]

Did their twizzles change from the GPF? Their SD TES base value was higher then.

Yes they lost 2 levels on the twizzles and 1 on the partial step seq.

I also don't know what they need to do to get ahead of Chock/Bates in standings/rankings.

I think the TES is the key. If they continue to win there, and I'm not speaking about this year only, I think they could become USA No. 1 actually.

 

[pandatours]

I agree that the Shibs should be ahead, I wonder if judges are prejudiced against sibling teams.

The British Eurosport commentators mention this every time with the Shibs and the Reeds. I think this is part of the reason, and also why their trajectory has stalled. I don't think a successful dance team needs to be really romantic, but even then you can have a "romantic theme" dance without getting that incesty vibe. It's a delicate balance but also gives them an opportunity to be more creative. Scali's really done wonders for their technical skills (IMO this is the sharpest they've looked since Igor left Artic Edge), Marina needs to dig deep and work with them to find another way...it would be a shame for them to fall back into the rut they've had in the past few years. This is the first time in a while that I've liked their programs, but their FD finally grew on me during Nationals

 

[Big Deal]

What I've seen today and at the European, I think that Papadakis/Cizeron starts to get a chance for World. Their only problem, they are the only team where no Russian interest )not even Russian coaches) included, and it is a strong maffia. All the other rivals has the Russian connection....

 

[Celine]

Kudos to the Shibs for being so resilient. Their historic rookie season when they were only 16 nd 19 capped by World bronze was such a mixed blessing in my opinion as it put a big bulls eyes on their backs. Injuries didn't help.Then to be dumped by their own federation and the international judges had to be so discouraging. Even now, the US honestly seems to just 'use' them for their charm, intelligence and marketing savvy, then doesn't give any indication that they are supportive of them in competitions.

The crowds aren't stupid though. Was at both Skate America and Nationals. At all 6 performances, short dance, free dance and even exhibition, there was no question which team and which performances the audiences preferred. The standing ovation after the SD for the Shibs was one of the most exciting moments of the event. Especially after both teams put out such strong programs, but response to C/B was so flat, Charlie White was prompted to say in his commentary "C'mon ... tough crowd"

I usually don't care much for Johnny Weir's commentary but I agree that the Shibs exhibition was one of those "transcendant" moments where the crowd simply didn't want the program to end.

They continue to earn my respect for being so resilient and positive, on and off the ice, given all they have been through and how they have been being treated by the judges over the past 3 seasons.

 

[TontoK]

Kudos to the Shibs for being so resilient. Their historic rookie season when they were only 16 nd 19 capped by World bronze was such a mixed blessing in my opinion as it put a big bulls eyes on their backs. Injuries didn't help.Then to be dumped by their own federation and the international judges had to be so discouraging. Even now, the US honestly seems to just 'use' them for their charm, intelligence and marketing savvy, then doesn't give any indication that they are supportive of them in competitions.

The crowds aren't stupid though. Was at both Skate America and Nationals. At all 6 performances, short dance, free dance and even exhibition, there was no question which team and which performances the audiences preferred. The standing ovation after the SD for the Shibs was one of the most exciting moments of the event. Especially after both teams put out such strong programs, but response to C/B was so flat, Charlie White was prompted to say in his commentary "C'mon ... tough crowd"

I usually don't care much for Johnny Weir's commentary but I agree that the Shibs exhibition was one of those "transcendant" moments where the crowd simply didn't want the program to end.

They continue to earn my respect for being so resilient and positive, on and off the ice, given all they have been through and how they have been being treated by the judges over the past 3 seasons.

I'm a fan of the Shibs, too. I felt they should have won this SD, and not in a squeaker.

However, the bold part above seems to be more soap opera than truth.

What has let them down in the recent past has been their levels. They simply haven't been getting L4 on elements they should, and that has damaged their scores and (to some extent, surely) their skating reputations.

There was a piece during nationals discussing the evolution of a lift because it was consistently scored as L2. Great... but my question was why did that take so long to address?

Anyway, as mentioned earlier in the thread, Marina has a "tech guru" added to her facility, and it looks like the impact of that is showing in the scoring. I've been back and forth on whether Marina is the right camp for them. But, as you say, the emotional impact of the programs speaks for itself...

PS. I still think they were lowballed in PCS in the SD to keep them from stomping W/P by a mile... but at least the technical improvements were recognized.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Agreed. The Shibs for a while were the Disney, cute bro-sis team, and it's hard to shake that off and be treated as serious skaters. Upping their difficulty this season is a testament to how hungry they are. If anything were right with the world, the Shibs would be a strong medal contender at Worlds, but unfortunately it seems they're slated for 5th or 6th.