2017 World Team Trophy - Day 1

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

This is a serious question so no laughing. Why do Men with great quads have so much trouble landing a clean 3A. Nathan was spectacular with his quads and his 3A was by far his weakest jump. I realize that it came out of spread eagle but still....Patrick has had the same problem and so did Stefan Lambiel.

The axel is a very difficult jump to control the takeoff and transfer "over" your landing foot... requires a lot of timing and precision, and too much swing on your leg can throw your air position out of whack, and too little swing will not get enough height to complete the rotation (as what happened with Chan's 3A here).

Nathan's 3A came out of a spread eagle and he did one after, so nobody can complain that he isn't doing the transitions in and out. He was rightfully nailed for lack of steps preceding the 4T though. I'm also glad his PCS was reduced so certain people stop whining (at least for a moment). Shoma was also suitably nailed for insufficient steps/overrotation on the landing of his 4F, but he should have also been absolutely dinged for travelling on that final spin (I mean, mostly +3's is totally ridiculous).

 

[invisiblespiral]

I forgot this was happening.

Hanyu...

 

[Pamigena]

My seat mates thought he said 'Oh my god'

So do I.

Translation of the interview after the SP

Q: After the performance, you looked up and moved your mouth.
-- I said 'sorry' (gomen nasai). I apologised.

 

[zschultz1986]

Jason had a great skate but he is not doing quads.There is so much energy used doing the more difficult programs sorry... just my rant!!!

Did everyone know that Jason isn't doing quads so he deserves to be in 15th place here? There's harder programs with quads you guys, and even if you fail on every element, you deserve to be ahead of Jason because you just attempted to do a quad, even if your jump landings looks like a crash dummy being ejected through the windshield of a car. Even if you just THINK about a quad, your program is already more difficult than Jason's and you deserve to be ahead of him. Apparently, if you don't do a quad, all the BV of your elements gets cut in half, and you only deserve 10 points for PCS.

If you have any version of this sentiment, I know a place where you can shove it. It's not a new or interesting opinion. We all know Jason doesn't do quads, thank you Captain Obvious.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Kolyada's 3A could the most underrated thing ever.

I mean yes Shoma has more transitions in and out than Mikhail on that element but what about the flow, the height and the distance?

Though i'm already happy that at least this time Jason has lower GOEs on that element (his 3A is soooo telegraphed, it's not even a +2 in my book)

Agreed about Kolyada's 3A -- that is a textbook element.

Jason's 3A I disagree with you on though. He is totally nailing his 3A these days, and it's +2 for sure in my books (though not quite the quality or non-telegraphed entry to make it a +3). I think his 3A is certainly less telegraphed than in the past. He absolutely lit it up today and was probably my favourite performance of all the guys, even without a quad.

 

[MaiKatze]

Well, Shoma doesn't have the pressure that Yuzuru has, nor do I get the sense that his fans have the same level of... um... zeal that Hanyu's fans have (and yes, I know, they're not mutually exclusive fans).

I agree about the nationalism though -- you can bet in 2018 if Yuzuru pulls a Lipnitskaia Sochi SP which takes him out of OGM contention, some fans will hop onto the Sotnikova/Uno bandwagon as their OGM hope. I'm sure certain folks don't care where Uno ends up as long as Yuzuru wins, but should Yuzuru bomb they are suddenly keen to see their "backup", Uno, come out on top.

Of course, Shoma doesn't have the pressure like that, because he's not 4 time GPF champion, reigning Olympic Gold Medalist and two time World Champion, for example. When Yuzuru was the new kid on the block he didn't have that pressure either. But to say he has no pressure, is also wrong. You can bet that people expect things from him now, and rightly so.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Of course, Shoma doesn't have the pressure like that, because he's not 5 time GPF champion, reigning Olympic Gold Medalist and two time World Champion, for example. When Yuzuru was the new kid on the block he didn't have that pressure either. But to say he has no pressure, is also wrong. You can bet that people expect things from him now, and rightly so.

He does, but he certainly is able to live up to it. This could be a breakthrough competition (other than Worlds), where Uno starts calling into question who the top dog in Japan is going into next season (even if he doesn't have Hanyu's accolades). This is one of the first times his PCS is higher than Hanyu's, right? It's certainly a PB (which I don't agree with given he doubled a triple, but it wasn't a significant error that marred the program like Chan's/Hanyu's).

One thing I think that keeps Uno grounded is his coach... she is always smiling and she just looks so warm and genuine. She reminds me of Kanako's coach... adorable and always ready to see off and receive her skater at the boards with a smile.

And that's not to say Brian/Tracy are cold... they were actually really sweet and positive afterwards to ensure he isn't so rough on himself, even a bit light-hearted... Tracy "I'm sure you'd like to do that one over!" Uh, duh, Tracy!

 

[mrrice]

Of course, Shoma doesn't have the pressure like that, because he's not 4 time GPF champion, reigning Olympic Gold Medalist and two time World Champion, for example. When Yuzuru was the new kid on the block he didn't have that pressure either. But to say he has no pressure, is also wrong. You can bet that people expect things from him now, and rightly so.

Completely true, especially in his home country. He has been a true gentleman and as the recently crowned champion of the World, expectations are obviously high. He'll bounce back in the LP and give that spectacular home crowd the thrill they are expecting. He'll be fine..

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Completely true, especially in his home country. He has been a true gentleman and as the recently crowned champion of the World, expectations are obviously high. He'll bounce back in the LP and give that spectacular home crowd the thrill they are expecting. He'll be fine..

I hope so too. And if he doesn't deliver, I hope he's not hard on himself afterwards. It's been quite the up and down season for him, and he should enjoy his World title (and epic comeback that earned him said title!) regardless of what happens in the FS.

 

[Tulipstar]

I'm extra excited now to see them all live on the 22nd!!

Will you? Wow! At what event?

EDIT: sorry, still have the weird idea it's early April. Glad you will get to watch this great event live:thumbsup:

 

[MaiKatze]

He does, but he certainly is able to live up to it. This could be a breakthrough competition (other than Worlds), where Uno starts calling into question who the top dog in Japan is going into next season (even if he doesn't have Hanyu's accolades). This is one of the first times his PCS is higher than Hanyu's, right? It's certainly a PB (which I don't agree with given he doubled a triple, but it wasn't a significant error that marred the program like Chan's/Hanyu's).

One thing I think that keeps Uno grounded is his coach... she is always smiling and she just looks so warm and genuine. She reminds me of Kanako's coach... adorable and always ready to see off and receive her skater at the boards with a smile.

And that's not to say Brian/Tracy are cold... they were actually really sweet and positive afterwards to ensure he isn't so rough on himself, even a bit light-hearted... Tracy "I'm sure you'd like to do that one over!" Uh, duh, Tracy!

Kanako's coach is Shoma's coach and vice versa. You're probably thinking of Yamada, the older coach who is over 70 and doesn't travel with Shoma anymore, but still did in the hey-day of Kanako. They are a team, Machiko Yamada and Mihoko Higuchi.

 

[mrrice]

Will you? Wow! At what event?

Right.....The crowd is just amazing. They cheer for EVERONE and I absolutely love that......

 

[Tulipstar]

Right.....The crowd is just amazing. They cheer for EVERONE and I absolutely love that......

Sorry, that was about the dumbest question. In my mind it's still early April and I thought it was about an ice show or....never mind:sad4:

 

[cathlen]

You're not the only one! Will check to see if they have fan fests here when I get home

They do, both of them

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Kanako's coach is Shoma's coach and vice versa. You're probably thinking of Yamada, the older coach who is over 70 and doesn't travel with Shoma anymore, but still did in the hey-day of Kanako. They are a team, Machiko Yamada and Mihoko Higuchi.

Yes, that's the one! I was thinking of Machiko Yamada... didn't know Kanako switched to Mihoko (no relation to Wakaba, right?).

 

[Nika09]

The second sentence was a bit tongue-in-cheek, I'll admit, but I am SO tired of seeing PCS save skaters. Hanyu should have been behind Besseghier. I know he's not the greatest skater, but Chafik must have felt pretty awful to be placed behind a guy who essentially doesn't do 2 jumps out of 4 (solo jump pop + no combo triple), when he skated a clean performance with a quad, thanks to generous PCS for Hanyu of 45.89 (including a ton of 9.25/9.50s). And yes, my PCS saving frustration applies to Chan as well, who should not have gotten over 45 PCS either, with a fall and a tripled quad/stepout error.

I think Nathan, Patrick and Hanyu's PCS was one of the few "right" thinks that has been done today by judges. Both of them have messed with jumps and punished with 0 scores, -GOE and deduction points. So why it also should affect the second mark? It's just like good jumpers automatically receiving high PCS. And yes Jason should get higher PCS for the same reasons. PCS shouldn't depend on TES! Other way there's no need in second marks at all.

 

[narcissa]

That's the post I was referring to, sorry, friedbeefmince (getting hungry....haha..)

Whether you think doing a double instead of a triple is a pop is just semantics.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

I think Nathan, Patrick and Hanyu's PCS was one of the few "right" thinks that has been done today by judges. Both of them have messed with jumps and punished with 0 scores, -GOE and deduction points. So why it also should affect the second mark? It's just like good jumpers automatically receiving high PCS. And yes Jason should get higher PCS for the same reasons. PCS shouldn't depend on TES! Other way there's no need in second marks at all.

Because visible errors - especially major ones like pops/falls/missed combos - should adversely affect scores for performance quality and interpretation (and transitions if jumps aren't executed properly; or choreography if a mistake affects it). Look at Chan's/Hanyu's SPs from Worlds, and you can tell a distinct difference between their commitment to the performance and interpretation.

I don't think Jason deserves higher PCS than what he got (45.89 is a personal best, mind you). But relative to Hanyu's/Chan's hot mess SPs, they should have been considerably below Jason.

But the ISU judges essentially said to Hanyu and Chan that even if they make two significant errors - including a pop/fall, they'll still clear 45 PCS. It's absolutely preposterous. Can't wait for the day folks are getting 49 PCS and 48.5 with 3 falls.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Whether you think doing a double instead of a triple is a pop is just semantics.

Usually it's used to refer to jumps that have less than the intended rotations, but to me, a pop is when you do at least 2 rotations less than you mean to. So a quad turned into a double/single, or a triple turned into a single. Otherwise, it's tripling or doubling a jump. Like, in this SP, Hanyu popped his solo jump, but Chan didn't pop his solo jump (he tripled it). It's semantics yes, but it's a way to distinguish turning a 3Z to a 1Z (pop) and a 3Z to a 2Z (doubling), since those are obviously different things.

 

[narcissa]

Usually it's used to refer to jumps that have less than the intended rotations, but to me, a pop is when you do at least 2 rotations less than you mean to. So a quad turned into a double/single, or a triple turned into a single. Otherwise, it's tripling or doubling a jump. Like, in this SP, Hanyu popped his solo jump, but Chan didn't pop his solo jump (he tripled it). It's semantics yes, but it's a way to distinguish turning a 3Z to a 1Z (pop) and a 3Z to a 2Z (doubling), since those are obviously different things.

That's cool, I mean, I should have said "his BV is lower than at Worlds" then. When I saw the SB box, I thought I remembered he had scored higher at Worlds, but blamed it on my memory being fuzzy. My mistake for going with what I saw on the TV.