2017 World Team Trophy - Day 1

[Ares]

Thank you for the report. And of course judges don't care. Nothing new.

Uno's 4F is essentially bizarre overrotated 3F disguised for quad jump

 

[Sabrina]

Uno's 4F is essentially bizarre 3F disguised for quad jump

That's why my order would be
1. Nathan, 2. Boyang, 3. Shoma

Shoma's 4F does not look like a 4F at all, maybe 3.25

 

[eta]

Well this is really splitting hairs, and no need to be sour about it. Hanyu got 7/9 +3s and Shoma got 8/9 +3s.

Shoma had a much harder transition leading out of his 3A (although Hanyu's entry is harder) and had huge distance.. it was essentially perfect.

I've seen Hanyu do the 3A better but I still think he hit the requirements for a +3. The landing wasn't quite perfect so maybe that's where the judges (only 2 at that) gave a +2 instead.

I don't think I have to reiterate, but the judges are allowed to award higher GOE to skaters other than Hanyu. Of course, certain fans don't care. Nothing new.

... if you read my posts they are all about the 4F. As in, the not really a "4" F and judges don't care about that. When did I ever mention 3A?

Edit: Actually, let me do it for you.

Rinkside report: Shoma the only quadster not to jump high

How did the 3.25F look live?

Opposite side of the rink. Hard to see. I remember it traveled pretty far. Still not very high. Do I think his deserved a 3 GOE while Yuzu's a 2.something? HELL NO!
Oh sorry thought you were talking about his 3A.

The 4F was right in front of me. It was very low and it looked like he botched the landing.

Thank you for the report. And of course judges don't care. Nothing new.

 

[Sabrina]

What I noticed in a slow replay was that Alaine's 3 Lz is not UR but ~5 degrees over rotated and that explained the harder landing. In my unexperienced opinion the landing was not bad enough to give up combination. But it is true that without a perfect technique the 3T could have ended in a fall. Maybe a 2T would have been safer.
But again, I could not find any UR and in Lutz it's quite simple to asses.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

GS threads are really becoming predictable. Y'all need to throw some curve balls every once in a while. :cool14:

ZzzZzzZzz.....

 

[hippomoomin]

His jumps are not my cup of tea. If it were a female skater (Russian or Japanese), people would pick him out in the discussion of every competition.

Somehow, judges have double standards for men and women, and so as fans??

Uno's 4F is essentially bizarre 3F disguised for quad jump

 

[zebobes]

His jumps are not my cup of tea. If it were a female skater (Russian or Japanese), people would pick him out in the discussion of every competition.

Somehow, judges have double standards for men and women, and so as fans??

Well, the judges DID give him negative GOE for the Quad Flip... The reason why he scored higher is because of his high GOE on his steps and spins, so even though Nathan also got L4 on all of them, Shoma made up a few extra points.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

Am I seeing that six ladies scored 70 or better or did the person who published the scoresheet have a bit of an oops moment.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Well, the judges DID give him negative GOE for the Quad Flip... The reason why he scored higher is because of his high GOE on his steps and spins, so even though Nathan also got L4 on all of them, Shoma made up a few extra points.

Well, Shoma shouldn't be doing quads he can't execute cleanly because that's just gaming the CoP system... oh, wait a minute....

 

[Nika09]

Because visible errors - especially major ones like pops/falls/missed combos - should adversely affect scores for performance quality and interpretation (and transitions if jumps aren't executed properly; or choreography if a mistake affects it). Look at Chan's/Hanyu's SPs from Worlds, and you can tell a distinct difference between their commitment to the performance and interpretation.

I don't think Jason deserves higher PCS than what he got (45.89 is a personal best, mind you). But relative to Hanyu's/Chan's hot mess SPs, they should have been considerably below Jason.

But the ISU judges essentially said to Hanyu and Chan that even if they make two significant errors - including a pop/fall, they'll still clear 45 PCS. It's absolutely preposterous. Can't wait for the day folks are getting 49 PCS and 48.5 with 3 falls.

Popping a jump isn't visible error for regular spectator, who doesn't know anything about athletes layouts.
Step-outs, hand-down's don't take any "skate time" and are punishing enough with GOEs. Falls - do, but they're reducing presentation scores already with -1 from overall (TES+PCS).

In that point let's start reduce TES scores for skaters with lack of transitions or poor SS. Or increase points for jumps in programs with good presentation.

They should give deserved high PCS until Patrick or someone else are not lying there, on the ice for couple or more seconds after fall, and then not able to hold it together with difficult transitions and beautiful presentation.

I know in that case -/+ 2-3 points will not change anything for Hanyu or Chan, but for FS sake presentation should be awarded properly no matter what

 

[Klarnet]

By the way, did you know that Coach Fluffy is 47? I want her genes.....

Why do they call her Coash Fluffy?

 

[TerpsichoreFS]

He hasn't lost, yet.

For another 4 hours

 

[Ares]

That's why my order would be
1. Nathan, 2. Boyang, 3. Shoma

Shoma's 4F does not look like a 4F at all, maybe 3.25

I could call it 3.33 Flipsalchowloopwhatever :sad4: As for Boyang's quadruple flip ... it's yet to be presented in competition so I don't count it. So far the only skater that I personally give credit for it is Nathan Chen. ISU unfortunately thought & thinks otherwise, giving full credit + positive GOE. He at least received -GOE here for once for his ''4F''.

 

[asiacheetah]

She didn't switch, they are her coaches. Both of them. Yamada is head coach in Nagoya. Kanako and Yura Matsuda went for the same GP's as Shoma this season, Skate America and CoR, probably because that's easier for Higuchi (no relation to Wakaba, pretty common last time) By the way, did you know that Coach Fluffy is 47? I want her genes.....[/QUOTE]

Why do ppl in this forum call her Coach Fluffy?

 

[NoNameFace]

Why do they call her Coash Fluffy?

due to her fabulous fluffy coat she wore last season (not sure if it was spotted somewhere this very season though...)

 

[Altie]

Why do ppl in this forum call her Coach Fluffy?

On Tumblr she's called "Coach Fluffy" by Shoma's fan - I think it's because of the fluffy coats she wears

 

[MaiKatze]

His jumps are not my cup of tea. If it were a female skater (Russian or Japanese), people would pick him out in the discussion of every competition.

Somehow, judges have double standards for men and women, and so as fans??

Yeah, sure. Nobody's picking him out in the discussion of every competition. To quote CSG, this is all a big Uno Love Fest here.

Pooping a jump isn't visible error for regular spectator, who doesn't know anything about athletes layouts.
Step-outs, hand-down's don't take any "skate time" and are punishing enough with GOEs. Falls - do, but they're reducing presentation scores already with -1 from overall (TES+PCS).

I think it's relatively easy to spot a popped jump. (Not so sure about a pooped jump though....sorry, I just had to) Not AS obvious as a fall, but I think the regular spectator sees it pretty quickly, if they have watched two or three competitions.

 

[Ares]

Haven't watched, just looked at the protocols.

WOW, Elena is a fighter. I'm excited to watch this performance. Love her SP this season (though her LP is a disaster) and it fits her perfectly. I didn't think she deserved to be sent to Worlds this year, but she's clearly out to show everyone that she should have been.

It seems like Wakaba skated well, but her PCS make me :noshake:. Let's hope that 3A finally gets her the love she deserves from the judges.

Karen Chen is a hot, inconsistent mess. Oh well. At least she bombed here and not at Worlds.

Why is this entire thread about Hanyu? He had an off day after an exhausting season? It's just a fluff competition. But is Chafik really that much worse of a skater than Hanyu?

Yay Jason!

Surprised to see Nathan not do the 4Lz, but man, even when he makes his content easier, he's a force.

I'm excited to watch Mikhail. Looks like he had a fabulous skate.

Nice to see WeaPo and C/B battling it out. I look forward to watching them, as it looks like they both skated fabulously. Interesting that none of the World medalists are here when they are in singles. Thankfully B/S did not get higher PCS than either team this time.

Radionova looked very fit & genuinely committed out there I thought that GOE on Lutz was rather egregious though, I am pretty sure that she planned combo here, and that landing even if clean was not a very good one either.

 

[Nika09]

I think it's relatively easy to spot a popped jump. (Not so sure about a pooped jump though....sorry, I just had to) Not AS obvious as a fall, but I think the regular spectator sees it prett quickly, if they have watched two or three competitions.

Sorry, my bad. Will be corrected

For regular-yes, it's not so hard especially when jump is "singeled". But I have a lot of friends who sometime watching FS with me and every time after that kind mistake they're just wondering why I'm not pleased and it was "good jump".

Even if they're noticeable for lots of people, I think it's still not reason for reducing PCS. It's all about TES. Every jump, either quad or single have their own BV and it's already costs 8-10 points for skater.

 

[TerpsichoreFS]

Why is everyone saying Chen is an inconsistent mess? She peaked at the two times she needed this season, and the mistakes she made at worlds weren't too big. Even when I watch her "disastrous" performances, (4cc and here), I feel like there is an over dramatization compared to what I watch. She seems like a cool and collected lady whose artistic ambition and nervousness may drive her to make mistakes. But she never looks afraid.

Plus next year is the olympics, so she won't have too much pressure as the usa number 1 because few expect her on the podium, unlike if it was a regular season and a medal at worlds was at stake. I think she'll hit when it matters.