2017-2018 State of Russian Ice Dance
- Thread starter gmyers
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Well, this was an interesting week for Russian ice dance. S/K`s PCS in Japan suggest that the fight for the 2nd Olympic spot is still open. I`m not a fan of their FD, it`s too much OTT Russian drama, but they got higher PCS than S/B in Russia. IMO, S/K should consider changing their last two lifts. In the straightline lift they come nearly to a complete halt and the rotational lift looks very awkward and didn`t get high GOE neither in Japan nor in Minsk. S/K have a good chance medalling at SkAm while S/B will probably end up 4th next week, so I`m curious to see who the Russian Fed will push as their #2.
It`s going to be very tough for B/S to get into GPF, but that doesn`t have to mean they already lost any chance to win a medal. Russia didn`t have any dance entries in the 2001/2002 and 2009/2010 seasons and still got one team on the Olympic podium.
We also saw this week the debut of Ilinykh/Shibnev. People wrote in here that there were some issues. We will see them next in 2 weeks. Let`s see if they manage a better performance than in Kazan. There was also an interesting fight between Skoptcova/Aleshin and Ushakova/Nekrasov in the junior ranks. This is a very interesting battle since S/A are better in the SD while U/N are better in the FD. I think the Junior National title will be probably between these two. They already have met twice this season and until now S/A could always win, we will see a next round during the JGPF.
It`s going to be very tough for B/S to get into GPF, but that doesn`t have to mean they already lost any chance to win a medal. Russia didn`t have any dance entries in the 2001/2002 and 2009/2010 seasons and still got one team on the Olympic podium.
We also saw this week the debut of Ilinykh/Shibnev. People wrote in here that there were some issues. We will see them next in 2 weeks. Let`s see if they manage a better performance than in Kazan. There was also an interesting fight between Skoptcova/Aleshin and Ushakova/Nekrasov in the junior ranks. This is a very interesting battle since S/A are better in the SD while U/N are better in the FD. I think the Junior National title will be probably between these two. They already have met twice this season and until now S/A could always win, we will see a next round during the JGPF.
I don't think Russian Fed even considers this debate. More than sure S/B will be in the Olympic team.
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I think, in any way, it's too early to push a team already when the picture is still unclear. All of the teams fighting for bronze at the Olympics are on a virtual tie at the moment - and that's a lot of teams. It will be only when they all meet together, literally at the Olympics, that we'll know what will happen for sure, but there's still the team event, and if Russia wants to use both of its teams, they'll have to go with the one that scored more internationally. As of now, S/B have a better FD record than S/K.
However, after so much chant of disaster just a week ago, one would think S/K were going to implode in Japan. I do think some people were hoping for that, so I'm kind of glad they did a nice competition overall.
However, after so much chant of disaster just a week ago, one would think S/K were going to implode in Japan. I do think some people were hoping for that, so I'm kind of glad they did a nice competition overall.
The FD was merely completed without having a major catostrophe. The twizzles they have smoothed out yes, but the smoothness and control of the other elements are not there. Their final lift is so weak and the second and third are reminiscent of the ones he did with his former partner, but less effctive. Why go in that direction, at all. IMHO, the scores for their SD and FD were more realistically 68 - 70 and 100 points respectfully.
Katsalapov still doesn't know how to distribute his energies or how to present Victoria. They came out like speed demons in the beginning and they couldn't find that gear again when they needed it for the diagonal step sequence. This is not a team in their first few months, this is a team that has been skating together for almost 4 years!! Also, it's like he's out there just showing off saying, look at me, look at me. Victoria seemed genuinely very disappointed in another fall, again. It wasn't cute.
So yes barring a major disaster B/S and S/B seem to have booked their tickets to the games.
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Most likely, yes, but we'll have to consider that S/B have also competed in Russia, when in Finladia they barely scraped enough to score what S/K also did for their disaster in Minsk. Not to say that they aren't the team with the best consistency for that second spot, they do have it.
But your opnion about their smoothness really doesn't compute to me - you were all praise about I/S' elements, including their lifts just this week, so I find that odd. S/K have had problems in the steps, and the last lift, yes, that one was not pretty, but the stationary lift and straight line are pretty good - their knee lift is better than B/S in that regard. All their elements before the diagonal step sequence were just fine, according to all judges, so the 'program was not just completed merely without disaster'.
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You have to remember that S/B are not so well received in the international stage. So I think it's not done yet.
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Realistically, as good as SK are when they skate clean, how can anyone trust them after the fiasco at Euros and then Minsk and even this weekend he managed to fall and drop Victoria yet again, he was just lucky it was after the music stopped. Much better to go for the less risky and more reliable S/B.
I feel S/B have improved a lot this season, so lets see how they do in France.
I think they will be the expected 4th place in France, but the interesting thing will be their score, whether it is on a par with CoR and whether it is higher than SK
L/A were world bronze medalists going into SLC in 6.0 ice dance! They could skip GP. D/S were world champions. Not the most popular world champions and having just won very narrowly but they did have the scores to become world champions so also could skip GP. B/s were 8th and s/b were 10th in the world 2017 sd and neither medaled so neither of these teams are respected by any judges. B/s were at one point but not anymore as all the way back in 2013 they did win world bronze but now are total nothing nonentities to all the judges. Very unfortunate as they should have moved to dubreuil but made sure everyone knew they don’t take competing that seriously anymore and are going to retire. There is no doubt Russia isn’t pushing anyone in ice dance after b/s. Russia looks like it has completely abandoned its ice dance program. No team Coached by dubreuil is crazy. Maybe if s/b move to dubreuil after the Olympics they will be seen to have support for international success.
Exactly! No team has any international support so it’s all about internal Russia politics. And right now that means backing the huge failures like b/s.
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In the current landscape who should they even support? B/S is the only team that has been scoring over 70+ and 105+ (more like 110+ in most of the competitions to be exact) for the current and past seasons. S/B are getting better scores this season, but their best as of now is virtually tied with S/K. And that's it. P/M and Z/G have scored some ten points behind S/B and S/K, which scored around ten points less than B/S. The other teams are complete non-factors right now, so it's not like the Fed has two or three teams head to head they can choose from.
If they had a team coached by Dubreuil that would obviously be the team to push. You don’t push a team only by talking them up to the judges as them being from Russia!. You need that team to be in the mix with the best coaching and other good teams. France knows this so they sent their two top teams to dubreuil. What is Russia’s method of pushing b/s? Telling people they are Zhulin’s number one? Who is zhulin anymore?!? They are Russian champions? That doesn’t mean anything anymore. How would they even push s/b if they became Russian champions? They are coached by svinin and zhuk? Who are they? They are not anybody compared to zueva or spiliband or dubreuil. They have to know dubreuil is the new tarasova. Tarasova is no one compared to dubreuil.
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How is B/S not in the mix with other good teams? You might argue about their coaching situation, but they're not out of the top 10, last season they weren't even out of the top 5 - when people were arguing all year that they would have it hard to reach the top 10.
They only got that top 5 because of the mistakes of others though. I don't think H/D and C/B have any intentions of repeating those past mistakes. Realistically B/S are no higher than 7th in the world. Hence my disappointment with their material this year. They needed programs that intrigued set them apart, they don't this season. The SD is all sorts of tacky and the FD sort of falls flat, IMHO.
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For that matter B/S gave away enough points in the SD that could have gotten them into the podium last worlds, so it wasn't just other teams that opened the door. But people don't care about that, I guess. When they make mistakes is a disaster, but when other teams do it's just a sad accident.
Also, realistically, you can't say where they are until they compete. Potential scoring only works in paper, competition is a whole other story. We can always talk about how this or that one team could have scored without mistakes, but after the results are in it doesn't matter. They could end up seventh, or barely into the top ten, or, realistically speaking, they could grab the bronze.
B/s don’t train with the best. It helps both v/m and p/c that they are coached by the same person in the same place and with other talented teams.. B/s aren’t with anyone good as they train with s/k and by zhulin! So it’s just a total wasteland. Bad coaching, other teams not even medal worthy at gp events. Why didn’t they switch to dubreuil or spiliband or zueva?
Doesn't make much sense to harp on this as they'll be retiring next season in all likelihood. I'd say let's see what the newbies and juniors bring. Also when Russia doesn't medal at these OG maybe they'll start to consider the discipline more seriously. Because the very definition of madness is doing the same thing over and over and.......blah, blah,blah.
Everyone knows what the newbies and juniors will bring unless they are sent to modern ijs ice dance coaches like Dubreuil. So the big question is do s/b go to dubreuil? Do l/d go to spiliband? I agree Does Russia continue to destroy its dance programs by giving zhulin students and tarasova input or do they make changes. Right now they are insane and more than isnane total losers and colossal failures in ice dance.
The worst possible situation is b/s retire and russia thinks it’s some kind of big promotion to send a team with potential to zhulin.
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But to be honest who they should send to in this scenario, their ice dance coaches are all the same now.
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