2018 US Championships Sr. Ladies FS

[Baron Vladimir]

It's not realistic for any of them to medal in February, but Chen and Tenell are still young and have another Olympics in them and the experience will be invaluable. Wagner already went to the Olympics, so if they're going to send an "old" (relatively speaking) lady to the Olympics for sentimental reasons, let it me Nagasu rather than Wagner, especially now that Nagasu placed 2nd. I think the scoring has been weird this competition but sending the top 3 is the best choice.

Im just saying that world FS audience will enjoy Ashley the most. There is a ton of prooves for that. Mirai is not loved that much like she is in America, but she skated a little bit better at Natonals than Ashley, so... Bradie deserves to go the most, obviously.... But from all of them, Ashley will get highest PCS and apllauds from the audience and sports commentators. She wiil be the one being remembered, i have no doubt in that. I doubt someone will talk about Bradie, Karen and Mirai skating tho (unless some of them put an upset and medals somehow, or Mirai lands clean 3As). That was my point.

 

[da96103]

Could someone post what Ashley said last night?

She said she was furious THREE times
In one answer.

 

[da96103]

WTH!! Who's this person!?

Probably a judge who skipped the briefing.

 

[readernick]

Im just saying that world FS audience will enjoy Ashley the most. There is a ton of prooves for that. Mirai is not loved that much like she is in America, but she skated a little bit better at Natonals than Ashley, so... Bradie deserves to go the most, obviously.... But from all of them, Ashley will get highest PCS and apllauds from the audience and sports commentators. She wiil be the one being remembered, i have no doubt in that. I doubt someone will talk about Bradie, Karen and Mirai skating tho (unless some of them put an upset and medals somehow). That was my point.

Yes, this is true. I am not really sure why the Usafs was so set on sending Karen Chen. I mean I could see that was going to happen as soon as Ashley skated the short and got those low components. I mean I know they want a younger talent but why someone who is so prone to technical errors and so inconsistent. Ashley can under rotate less than that and get higher components internationally. Save the PCS overscoring for someone more consistent.

 

[Andrea82]

WTH!! Who's this person!?

Judge 7 is Kevin Rosenstein. He's an international judge

 

[synteis]

I still don't get Bradie's PCS. She's essentially nothing but jumps to me. The rest is just not worth watching and skating skills aren't anything to write home about, either. Bradie has consistent jumps but the jumps themselves aren't IMO that great. Mirai's PCS should have been higher. Mirai's been having issues with overrotating her 3As but I guess overrotation is easier to fix than underrotation.

She's trying to go for that 4A

 

[museksk8r]

Borrowing bobbob's post from the SP to analyze the final PCS scoring

Bradie PCS
SP PB: 29.38, This Season: 27.44, 29.38, NATIONALS: 32.91
FS PB: 64.41, This Season: 61.04, 64.41, NATIONALS: 69.71
Difference from SB:
3.53 (SP) + 5.30 (FS) = +8.83

Mirai PCS
SP PB: 33.00, This Season: 30.24, 30.72, NATIONALS: 31.19
FS PB: 64.24, This Season: 63.28, 60.46, 63.09, NATIONALS: 67.42
Difference from SB:
0.47 (SP) + 4.14 (FS) = +4.61

Ashley PCS
SP PB: 34.77, This Season: 33.47, 33.68, NATIONALS: 32.94
FS PB: 73.78, This Season: 67.50, NATIONALS: 68.00
Difference from SB:
-0.74 (SP) + 0.50 (FS) = -0.24

Karen PCS
SP PB: 31.63, This Season: 30.43, 30.93, NATIONALS: 33.80
FS PB: 64.33, This Season: 62.16, 61.99, 61.89, NATIONALS: 69.58
Difference from SB:
2.87 (SP) + 7.42 (FS) = +10.29

Inflation for everyone BUT Ashley.

I was actually coming to this thread to post something similar. I understand Ashley being dumbfounded and furious by the blanket PCS inflation for everyone excluding her. The judges sent a very clear political message that they did not like how she withdrew from Skate America mid-program rather than prior to the event due to her infection. She prevented another healthy US skater from having an opportunity to compete on the Grand Prix and the judges clearly punished her for it.

I was examining PCS this season between the Grand Prix and Nationals.

Bradie’s Skate America PCS:
SP: 29.38
LP: 64.41
Bradie’s Nationals PCS:
SP: 32.91
LP: 69.71

Mirai’s NHK Trophy PCS:
SP: 30.72
LP: 63.09
Mirai’s Nationals PCS:
SP: 31.19
LP: 67.42
[Mirai was the only one of the top 4 who was not present at Skate America, so I compared her NHK trophy scores to her Nationals scores since she performed similarly at both events]

Karen’s Skate America PCS:
SP: 30.93
LP: 61.89
Karen’s Nationals PCS:
SP: 33.80
LP: 69.58

Ashley’s Skate America/Skate Canada PCS:
SP: 33.68 [Skate America with a sloppier program than at Nationals]
LP: 67.50 [Skate Canada]
Ashley’s Nationals PCS:
SP: 32.94
LP: 68.00

Ashley was the only one who received PCS at Nationals that were realistic to what she would earn internationally while everyone else received a substantial boost of 4 to 8 points more at Nationals than what they would earn internationally.

USFSA dissed Wagner and left her out to dry.

 

[deneuved]

I was actually coming to this thread to post something similar. I understand Ashley being dumbfounded and furious by the blanket PCS inflation for everyone excluding her. The judges sent a very clear political message that they did not like how she withdrew from Skate America mid-program rather than prior to the event due to her infection. She prevented another healthy US skater from having an opportunity to compete on the Grand Prix and the judges clearly punished her for it.

I was examining PCS this season between the Grand Prix and Nationals.

Bradie’s Skate America PCS:
SP: 29.38
LP: 64.41
Bradie’s Nationals PCS:
SP: 32.91
LP: 69.71

Mirai’s NHK Trophy PCS:
SP: 30.72
LP: 63.09
Mirai’s Nationals PCS:
SP: 31.19
LP: 67.42
[Mirai was the only one of the top 4 who was not present at Skate America, so I compared her NHK trophy scores to her Nationals scores since she performed similarly at both events]

Karen’s Skate America PCS:
SP: 30.93
LP: 61.89
Karen’s Nationals PCS:
SP: 33.80
LP: 69.58

Ashley’s Skate America/Skate Canada PCS:
SP: 33.68 [Skate America with a sloppier program than at Nationals]
LP: 67.50 [Skate Canada]
Ashley’s Nationals PCS:
SP: 32.94
LP: 68.00

Ashley was the only one who received PCS at Nationals that were realistic to what she would earn internationally while everyone else received a substantial boost of 4 to 8 points more at Nationals than what they would earn internationally.

USFSA dissed Wagner and left her out to dry.

Yep - and they had to elevate Karen's PCS to ridiculous highs to have her in front of Ashley. As they were probably too coward to name Karen instead of Ashley for the team had she placed 4th instead of 3rd.

 

[museksk8r]

I expect USFSA’s plan to prop up Karen will backfire though. She has been a hot mess all season long and technically, she has regressed a lot since last year’s Worlds. Her scores will come back down to earth in South Korea.

 

[moonvine]

I'm sure this question was asked before: how on Earth do they end up with that order of skaters?

I asked the Skate Radio people this question because I have been wondering. For the short they put however many numbers in a bag and the skaters pick from the bag. They are seeded so whoever has the highest world ranking gets to pick first. The long is in reverse order until they get to the last six and then they said they draw for 4, 5 and 6 and then 1, 2, and 3. I don't really understand that last part but that's what they said. The International rule is different and I can't remember how it's done internationally, I can only hold so many pieces of information in my head.

 

[casken]

Ashley was the only one who received PCS at Nationals that were realistic to what she would earn internationally while everyone else received a substantial boost of 4 to 8 points more at Nationals than what they would earn internationally.

USFSA dissed Wagner and left her out to dry.

Again, exactly what happened twice to Abbott. His PCS were on par with what he got internationally, but all his competitors got an unrealistic boost.

 

[moonvine]

I expect USFSA’s plan to prop up Karen will backfire though. She has been a hot mess all season long and technically, she has regressed a lot since last year’s Worlds. Her scores will come back down to earth in South Korea.

I'm really not happy with this decision. I thought the picking of the team was supposed to include body of work, and Karen's body of work this season has not been great.

 

[moonvine]

Is there a podium step for the pewter medalist?

No, they stand on the carpet.

 

[NoStefaniaNo]

There was a podium step for pewter.

 

[kasha6]

Sorry if it's OT here, but I'm curious about the controversy in 2014 over the choice of Ashley to the Sochi Team, since it seems to be mentioned a lot regarding the selection for the Olympics Team this year. Can someone give me the gist on this and why it was so controversial? I assume that the criteria back then placed a lot more weight in Nationals placement than the criteria now, for it to produce so much outrage, since from what I read Ashley did have a very good season beforehand, while underperforming at Nationals.

It always kind of confuses me how much weight is placed on Nationals compared to season long performance or previous season results. Sure, in this particular case, none of the ladies really performed convincingly anywhere so Nationals results should, in my opinion, push the Team decision more, but back then surely Ashley had a better case regardless of her Nationals performance?

Ashley deserved to be on that 2014 team; I really dislike the commentators and evryone constantly harping on it. Other countries have used that system for years. They do not just rely on 1 competition; Mirai's results were horrible that year, and had one good skate at Nationals. Ashley was doing very well all season and the season before. She medalled at both grand prix finals in 2012/2013. This team is fair for this Olympics, but Ashleys PC scores were definitely much lower than the international judges give her. If the INT judges scored this comp, she would have gotten the bronze.

 

[Miss Ice]

So Bradie has a higher tech score than Yuna Kim at 2013 Worlds with her perfect program: http://www.isuresults.com/results/wc2013/wc2013_Ladies_FS_Scores.pdf The GOEs they gave her were RIDICULOUS, and she definitely won't get the same treatment in Pyeongchang. Her scores will also go down to earth and I'm pretty sure Mirai will score higher than her by a margin if she's clean and is able to get the URs within the quarter.

 

[gottadance]

I'm really not happy with this decision. I thought the picking of the team was supposed to include body of work, and Karen's body of work this season has not been great.

and Ashley's was ? the cold hard truth is that none of Ashley , Mirai or Karen have had good seasons to date, however Karen did do very well at last years worlds.
To my eyes Karen was much faster and skated with commitment and determination whereas Ashley was cautious ( probably because it was a new program ) and somehow flat . But the bottom line is that Ashley made 2 significant mistakes in the program which cost her in both the technical and PCS scoring .

 

[NoNameFace]

I wouldn't describe the program one note at all. There are some quieter, capricious and waltzy moment which I rather enjoy and found them to be charming which is not typical of Wagner's 'range'. There's hardly any time wasting dead spot either for halfway mark, decent ice coverage, little poseography moments, pretty full on choreographic program by her standard (Although I suspect some choreography been simplified/streamlined for consistency, but I actually love the fact there's no overly busy movement for transition's score sake when it doesn't even fit the music. This one, musically, it is pretty apt, it just needs some intricate choreographic details to highlight some of the piano trilling sections in the 2nd half.)

Put it this way, she had worse programs in the past with higher PCS internationally and I find this to be a more welcoming effort/direction than all her previous programs. It has potential to be a signature piece next to Black Swan. I like the soft, subtle and vulnerable lyrical build up from the beginning, change of the pacing with a big band, then back to lyricism, not overly edited, tasteful finish. It contrasts and balances nicely with her more rhythmic SP as well, and differs from today's typical warhorse cliche, hardly anything in the first half, all in the 2nd half with expected 'miming expressions', time wasting conserving energy for half way bonus and a big 'happy' finish.

If Alina's 'one note' can gather her such high PCS in PE, IN, CH, this deserves much higher than Alina.

being in agreement - my own impression was that this 'La la land' FS showed a different side of Ashley as a competitor and a performer I think. You've pointed out rightly (at least with my own thoughts hehe) this sense of 'vulnerabity' taken from the build-up of the program and the outlook of it; for me, it definitely was a 'stripped glamour' picture, truly reflecting on this 'audition' theme taken from 'La la land' movie and even Ashley herself was not typical Diva Wagner we used to see, vivacious and energetic all the time - this was really a nie attempt in my opinion to get into that character based on the movie, but to also adapt it to her own position (quite fitting as for the whole switching FS program story if you ask me).

I personally very liked this 'stripped' look on her face, subtle make-up, simplistic, but elegant-youthful hairdo and the dress that somehow resembled a big dream of a spleandour and glamour, but was very in the mood of the program at the same time. Music cuts and build-up of the whole program based on 'audition' song was a great idea, full of freshness and unexpected new quality regarding Ashley I feel - it somehow allowed her to not push/power through the program on a full speed, using all expression variety at once and on high level, but to create more 'reflective' outlook on her performance and choreography. And agree on adding some intricacy to choreo in the 2nd half - I hate this 'coulda, woulda, shoulda' approach, but boy - I feel simply sad that she did not switch to that original idea for the season earlier, with the right mileage and competitive performance surroundings it could be a signature as You mentioned and a crowds' pleaser, maybe favourite to get back to...

 

[moonvine]

There was a podium step for pewter.

It must be a tiny step because I didnt see it Oh well.

 

[Carolla5501]

I'm really not happy with this decision. I thought the picking of the team was supposed to include body of work, and Karen's body of work this season has not been great.

And Ashley's has been? LOL


My impression at the arena was that Ashley showed up with a weak program expecting a coronation. She didn't sell that program and without her "sales skills" her PCS suffers. At least Karen seemed to skate with passion. Ashley could have been doing a practice run through with no commitment to the program