Wagner "furious" on scores

[withwings]

Ashley said she agreed with the selection criteria. So I don't get what the purpose of this was, other than whining.

The fact that PCS scores has become a tool to manipulate final results of any competitions; so as to say- the means to justify these results and to manipulate them. There has been a lot of complains about this in all the forums, and continually. If Ashley would have taken this problem in a broader sense, it, of course, would be much better. She rather did it to the extent it is related to her ( it never ever looks good to fight for yourself!).
In fact, she displayed a real problem and, if it is not in the way one want it to be....well... it might help to think twice for any judge in future. It has to be stopped.

sorry again for my English

 

[fenway3]

She was playing with the puppies before she skated but no puppies were going to make her dashed olympic dreams better in that moment.

Just curious—do these puppies need to have an adequate "body of work" before they're eligible to be played with by the skaters?

 

[treeloving]

I just realize that for some people speaking or questioning authority is equal to having bad sportsmanship. She doesn't even criticize any skater who has been named to the team.


Anyway, love her or hate her Ashley always brought something to be discussed on this forum.


And don't let me start on the "controversy" in 2014 which should not happened at all if judge gave Mirai a proper ur call and pcs.

 

[OS]

Thought she came across well, good for her! Even proud of her to able to stand up for herself while supporting her teammates - especially I strongly feel she has a legitimate reason to complain about her PCS which is what she is competitive on. And all athletes should able to be encouraged to compete in whatever way they feel are their strength without fearing they will not get rewarded for all that effort. It was a problem with Abbott's and then Adam's national scoring years ago when USFSA tried to push for Jason. Same with Polina. It was so obvious... Continuously going unchecked and shrugged off out of some obligation of 'politeness and manners' is such hogwash. If it can happen to her today, it can happen to Karen, Bradie, Nathen in the future etc..

I am so sick and tired when PCS get used for anything else other than what it is designed to reward: the artistic parts of the sport. The same excuse used to manipulate results by agenda driven judges, federations, pushing for their skater of choice at the expense of another - all has nothing to do with what went on the ice on the day.

Wish there are more people who get angry, even furious, pushing for fair or good quality consistent judging. Call out bad, poor ones where ever possible. It should not be the skaters alone who should bear the entire burden for weird results when judges themselves should have that responsibility. On weird occasions like this, they should explain why some of these marks are so questionable, inconsistent, and especially when they appear to blatantly favours one at the expense of another.

 

[R.D.]

When Wagner retires, maybe she can draw attention to instances where she witnesses it happening to someone else. The first path to change is to bring awareness to the fault

 

[Mathman]

Just curious—do these puppies need to have an adequate "body of work" before they're eligible to be played with by the skaters?

Actually, I think they do. Aren't these "comfort dogs" bred and trained for this purpose? I believe that there is an official "Comfort Dog" registry for dogs that have passed all their tests, etc.

My neurologist has one in his office. The dog just wanders around from room to room and any patient who wants to hug him, can. (Hey, it's a living :yes: .)

 

[trains]

Just to remind us there is still some great sportsmanship and camaraderie in skating: here is the last flight of Ladies getting ready to go out for their warm up at last year's Canadian nationals
https://www.instagram.com/p/BPgYct_j3AJ/

 

[combinationspin]

Figure Skating is a judged sport and you have to rely on the judges scores. If everyone started to be furious and kick up Old he-- over their scores, it's over for everyone.

What makes you think so? I agree that scores shouldn’t be questioned during a competition in order not to break the time frame. But why shouldn’t athletes be able to question the scores after the competition ended? Judges should be accountable for the scores they give out. If they did a good job, they should be able to explain their scoring to the athletes and the public easily. The ISU has acknowledged this somewhat as they finally abolished anonymous judging a few seasons ago, which hasn’t really hurt anybody. This should be taken even further imo as the judging is often questionable to me.
Also, the ISU sees areas that should be improved in judging all the time, thus they constantly release new rules and guidelines after a season has ended. Why shouldn’t athletes be able to point out incidents of bad judging in order to improve it?

 

[withwings]

Thought she came across well, good for her! Even proud of her to able to stand up for herself while supporting her teammates - especially I strongly feel she has a legitimate reason to complain about her PCS which is what she is competitive on. And all athletes should able to be encouraged to compete in whatever way they feel are their strength without fearing they will not get rewarded for all that effort. It was a problem with Abbott's and then Adam's national scoring years ago when USFSA tried to push for Jason. Same with Polina.

...I do not about the others you mentioned, but, certainly, it seems to me that Polina deeply inside was broken and lost her spark, in other words-a hope.

 

[fenway3]

Actually, I think they do. Aren't these "comfort dogs" bred and trained for this purpose? I believe that there is an official "Comfort Dog" registry for dogs that have passed all their tests, etc.

Are they really puppies then, or just small adult dogs?

My neurologist has one in his office. The dog just wanders around from room to room and any patient who wants to hug him, can. (Hey, it's a living :yes: .)

That's pretty cool.

 

[fenway3]

Just to remind us there is still some great sportsmanship and camaraderie in skating: here is the last flight of Ladies getting ready to go out for their warm up at last year's Canadian nationals
https://www.instagram.com/p/BPgYct_j3AJ/

That looks nice on the surface, until you read an article like this one that Jenny Kirk wrote years ago:

http://web.archive.org/web/20120830...ferkirk/2009/07/20/why-skaters-arent-friends/

 

[kwanatic]

I feel like some people are being a bit too harsh on Ashley.

I don't see anything wrong with her voicing her opinion or feelings on the matter. There was a clear change in the scoring towards her this year at this event...anyone with eyeballs and the ability to pull a score sheet can see it. Why is it taboo/arrogant/whiny/entitlement to voice an opinion? This is why Ashley gets respect from me. There is often a lot of crap scoring in this sport but very few people (especially skaters) ever speak out about it. It takes a lot of courage to say something and Ashley did. Whether the perceived slight is true or not, why shouldn't she speak on it if it's what she feels? Why can't a female in this sport voice an opinion without people slamming her for it?

Accepting what's handed to you without question isn't always gracious or "good sportsmanship" especially when you disagree with it. Demanding that she stay quiet and say nothing just feeds the perception that females in this sport are nothing more than smiling plastic dolls in sequins who only want to "do their best"... She has a voice. She has an opinion. She hasn't said one bad thing about her competitors and she's been supportive of the girls who made the team. All of her comments have been about her skating and the way she was scored. I don't understand why that's a bad thing...I say more power to her.:clapper:

I think it's good Ashley is putting unfair scoring in the spotlight. Scoring in this sport is often horse poo. It needs attention brought to it. That seems to be the only way to get things to change. The only reason the IJS came about was b/c of the scandal in 2002 that made international news. It forced the ISU to make changes. PCS are basically manipulation tools. You can boost someone up or hold others down. The scores rarely if ever objectively reflect what's done on the ice. It's time for the system to be overhauled again.

After the women's event I'm sure the scoring issue will come up yet again...I'm almost counting on it.

 

[TwinnerA]

It would not surprise me at all to see Ashley at Worlds or even Olympics; lots can happen (injury, illness, bad boots). She is wise to stay prepared.

True. I can't remember the last time that all three U.S. ladies attended Worlds in previous Olympic seasons!

 

[Moxiejan]

True. I can't remember the last time that all three U.S. ladies attended Worlds in previous Olympic seasons!

Actually, it was 2014: Gracie, Ashley and Polina.

 

[TwinnerA]

Actually, it was 2014: Gracie, Ashley and Polina.

Well, they say the first thing to go is one's memory!

 

[Imagine]

I actually agree with everything Ashley said on Today. And she's right, the problem with this whole fiasco is the fact that they stick the camera in these skaters' faces mere moments after the competition. I understand how all that emotion was bound to spill over into her initial comments, especially since her Olympic dream died right there. Perhaps if they had allowed her more time to gather herself, her words would not have come across the way they did that night. Clearly, Ashley is a very classy lady who is capable of making a valid point without coming off as petulant. Here, she still fought for herself and made all the same arguments, but appeared way more gracious in doing so. This Today interview is a redemptive moment for her. Honestly, I was afraid of the other direction this could have gone in. But, she proves me wrong again. Respect.

 

[kwanatic]

I actually agree with everything Ashley said on Today. And she's right, the problem with this whole fiasco is the fact that they stick the camera in these skaters' faces mere moments after the competition. I understand how all that emotion was bound to spill over into her initial comments, especially since her Olympic dream died right there. Perhaps if they had allowed her more time to gather herself, her words would not have come across the way they did that night. Clearly, Ashley is a very classy lady who is capable of making a valid point without coming off as petulant. Here, she still fought for herself and made all the same arguments, but appeared way more gracious in doing so. This Today interview is a redemptive moment for her. Honestly, I was afraid of the other direction this could have gone in. But, she proves me wrong again. Respect.

What I really love and respect is the fact that she said if she had the chance to change what she said, she wouldn't. I like that she's not going to compromise her feelings or fluff it up for the sake of making people more comfortable. She stands by what she said and that's good. This interview just gave her a chance to clarify why she said what she said, and I think that needed to be said. Some people obviously took her comments in a different way than she intended. It was good she was able to clear that up here.

 

[sinnerspinner]

I was impressed with how she spoke up for the women on the team and said she did not want to delegitimize their spots because people had try to do that to her. Honestly, I think most of the people who criticize her are still obsessed with how she "stole" Mirai's spot in 2014.

It was exciting to hear she is training for 4CC. I will admit that a part of me was worried she was going to announce her retirement.

Me personally I wasn't watching skating at that time.
I feel like she was expecting to be *given* a certain score.

Imo she did a better job selling h h c c back in 2016 (I found the vid on yt). If her pcs went down, its because her performance went down. Imo the upbeat samba music was highlighting her relatively slow spins. To me as a casual viewer it looked more like she was dancing and most flirting and using her upper body. Perhaps thejudges remember the old program, made a comparison, and decided she fell flat this time.

I understand she may have a problem learning new choreography. In a way she shot herself in the foot by resurrecting old programs. Declines in skating and selling a,programs become more obvious.

Maybe her programs are fun, but she gets a lot of yellow boxes...

It's not like she pulled out all the stops.

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

That looks nice on the surface, until you read an article like this one that Jenny Kirk wrote years ago:

http://web.archive.org/web/20120830...ferkirk/2009/07/20/why-skaters-arent-friends/

Jenny had a chip on her shoulder and it was never as bad as she tried to portray it to be. Also, this was almost 10 years ago and the competitive environment has changed alot. They all may not be best friends, but they are friendly, most get along well and are supportive of each other in US/Canada at least.

 

[Mathman]

I don't know. I am starting to feel like, "Move along. Nothing to see here." A skater got lower scores from the judges than she thought she deserved. Is that it?