2018 Olympic Figure Skating Team Event Day 3

[readernick]

I'm not going to comment on anything except this.

Calling tanos and backloading "cheap strategies" as if any skater could do them. No, they don't do them because they are difficult to do, not because they are cheap and easy.

Ok, I get it, you don't like it. Your favorite skaters lose points because they aren't doing it, but don't let that cloud your judgement and and say silly things like doing all jumps in the second half of a FS is an easy thing to do.

Don’t think it is easy to backload. But, I think it is better to push technical content in other ways. More triple axels and more lutz loops.A quad? Rika Kihira is doing this in juniors sucessfully. Trusova is trying the quad unsuccessfully ( up to this pont). I hope they force balance in the programs so beautiful technically difficult programs develop.

In terms of hands over the head, it does look pretty when Alina does it. But, the other girls aren’t really doing more than putting on hand abovd their head in a sloppy way. I think a lot more Japanese girls could do it but they tend to use it sparlingly because it gets repetitive. If Alina did it less it would be more stunning and have more effect.

I don’t have a favorite skater at the moment. It isn’t soar grapes. I just think backloading and ugly arms over the head constantly hurt the artistic side of skating.

 

[Leonardo]

But If you dont like ballet or don't understand anyting about it like some people do, it is ok.

Actually it's the contrary. If you really understand ballet you'll find many problems with Zagi's posture, movements (unfinished, rushed), her arms and use of the whole body.
Personally I try to ignore it, but it's hard sometimes, even though she's obviously not a ballerina. Instead I try to focus on her insane tech and the fact the she seems so sweet and lovely.

 

[TerpsichoreFS]

There was also a lot of parasitic noise in the arena, especially during ladies warm up. Is the ice hockey rink close?[/QUOTET

I don't think so...I looked up a map and the ice hockey rink wasn't even in the picture.

Alright thank you

 

[randomfan]

For those of you wondering why Evgenia and Alina are receiving more criticism for their scores then for other skaters, it’s because they are benefiting the most from the inflation. Evgenia broke several WRs solely because the judges kept getting excited and wanted to launch her status to outer space. Whether you care about WRs or not, you can’t deny that they do give a sense of distance between the holder and the others, which should NOT be the case. As for Alina, she skyrocketed from a junior girl status to the highest peak all in just a few months. That’s just plain unfair to everyone else who have been working just as hard.

The thing is, while Evgenia and Alina display very impressive consistency, are they really that much better than the rest of the field? Honestly, other than the 3Lo, I can name skaters in recent years who can do the same elements as Evgenia better than her. For 3Lz, look at Tuktamysheva. For layback, look at Chen or Miyahara. For footwork, look at Kostner. And many more. Same goes for Alina. I will admit that her 3Lz-3Lo, flying camel, and 3F are certainly some of the best out there. But everything else is being marked as near-perfect, which again should not be true because there are people who can do them better.

And a few pages back, I saw some people talking about how Mirai should gain equal criticism for her PCS with Alina, since they are probably at the same level artistically. So in this case, they should be having almost the same PCS. Why on earth should Alina be beating Mirai by a whopping 11 points here? Both skated clean.

Currently I think that Evgenia, Alina, Kaetlyn, and Carolina are the most overscored. But Evgenia’s and Alina’s inflations are just up to another level...

 

[withwings]

It's possible I've misinterpreted what "out of control" means.

Awesome experiences can also be characterized as "out of control" and perhaps that's what you meant.

TontoK you are amazing! Thank you for "calming the waters" here, on this forum, for bringing some sort of...my English vocabulary is not good... some sort of lightness ('...how then, you may say, are we to wrestle with the darkness? by becoming light') and for each and every of your post here, they always are a wonderful treat.

 

[ks777]

Whose first names starts with the letter M!

so Marin next?

 

[withwings]

For those of you wondering why Evgenia and Alina are receiving more criticism for their scores then for other skaters, it’s because they are benefiting the most from the inflation. Evgenia broke several WRs solely because the judges kept getting excited and wanted to launch her status to outer space. Whether you care about WRs or not, you can’t deny that they do give a sense of distance between the holder and the others, which should NOT be the case. As for Alina, she skyrocketed from a junior girl status to the highest peak all in just a few months. That’s just plain unfair to everyone else who have been working just as hard.

The thing is, while Evgenia and Alina display very impressive consistency, are they really that much better than the rest of the field? Honestly, other than the 3Lo, I can name skaters in recent years who can do the same elements as Evgenia better than her. For 3Lz, look at Tuktamysheva. For layback, look at Chen or Miyahara. For footwork, look at Kostner. And many more. Same goes for Alina. I will admit that her 3Lz-3Lo, flying camel, and 3F are certainly some of the best out there. But everything else is being marked as near-perfect, which again should not be true because there are people who can do them better.

And a few pages back, I saw some people talking about how Mirai should gain equal criticism for her PCS with Alina, since they are probably at the same level artistically. So in this case, they should be having almost the same PCS. Why on earth should Alina be beating Mirai by a whopping 11 points here? Both skated clean.

Currently I think that Evgenia, Alina, Kaetlyn, and Carolina are the most overscored. But Evgenia’s and Alina’s inflations are just up to another level...

I do not think at all, that Kaetlyn has been ever overscored.. There rather has been a purposeful- and subtle- war against Kaetlyn on this forum and on youtube from the few individuals of so- called " russian department".

 

[frida80]

solely on the backloading alina earned about 2 points of advatntage compared to mirai.
it's so heartwarming to see people who are thinking that as soon as the backloading rule will be abolished, eteri's girls will start to lose. the understanding of the system is so deep on this forum

Actually, Mirai’s based value would be higher that Alina’s. She lost points on a spin level, Step sequence, and was slightly early with her 2A combo and lost the bonus. The difference in their BV would be Mirai: 67.06 and Alina: 66.01.

 

[ks777]

The great thing about Alina's program is that the first half totally holds our interest despite holding off on the jumps.

Not really..

 

[TwinnerA]

Currently I think that Evgenia, Alina, Kaetlyn, and Carolina are the most overscored. But Evgenia’s and Alina’s inflations are just up to another level...

As it is, either Evegenia or Alina could fall twice and probably still beat everyone else! At least that's the way it seems to me.

 

[withwings]

As it is, either Evegenia or Alina could fall twice and probably still beat everyone else! At least that's the way it seems to me.

...not dear,they can fall four times and it will be the same...

 

[rain]

I agree too. Why bother trying to learn a 3A (which most ladies are not able to ever fully master) and incur risk using it in competition, when you can just back load triple jumps that you can already do. I find Alina's 3 lutz-3 loop impressive, that is pushing the ladies technical envelope a bit, but it really ends there, everything else is just backloading and rippon arms. She does it really well, but the component score is outrageous. Have her ahead in first, that's fine based on the judging system, but why put such an insane gap between her and the scores of other skaters (even skaters who were not competing in that event) that they could never, ever close. It leads to even when they (Alina, Evgenia) have messy, flawed programs they still win, just because no one can catch up to the super inflated scores unless they happen to absolutely bomb (which almost never, ever happens). I also noticed that last night Alina's 3 loop combo looked a little UR, I'm sure some will say it's not and that's okay, but I've noticed that often 3 loop combos (that ladies do) are heavily scrutinized and often called UR, though I notice for her it almost never seems to be closely looked at, I guess because she has a reputation of doing it clean.

This is my problem. Have Alina ahead on technical, within the current rules that's fair. She's a good jumper. Her tano arms are definitely better than Sotskova, though the number are overkill and reduce the effect. But her PCS are from nowhere, and in no way reflect what's happening on the ice. She may one day deserve those PCS, but at this point she is not developed enough as a skater. It's an insult and totally unfair to the skaters who actually do excel in the PCS categories and deserve to gain ground on her there. It's like giving a skater benefit for a triple jump they didn't actually do. Nobody would argue that should happen, so why is it OK in the PCS?

 

[Eclair]

For those of you wondering why Evgenia and Alina are receiving more criticism for their scores then for other skaters, it’s because they are benefiting the most from the inflation. Evgenia broke several WRs solely because the judges kept getting excited and wanted to launch her status to outer space. Whether you care about WRs or not, you can’t deny that they do give a sense of distance between the holder and the others, which should NOT be the case. As for Alina, she skyrocketed from a junior girl status to the highest peak all in just a few months. That’s just plain unfair to everyone else who have been working just as hard.

The thing is, while Evgenia and Alina display very impressive consistency, are they really that much better than the rest of the field? Honestly, other than the 3Lo, I can name skaters in recent years who can do the same elements as Evgenia better than her. For 3Lz, look at Tuktamysheva. For layback, look at Chen or Miyahara. For footwork, look at Kostner. And many more. Same goes for Alina. I will admit that her 3Lz-3Lo, flying camel, and 3F are certainly some of the best out there. But everything else is being marked as near-perfect, which again should not be true because there are people who can do them better.

And a few pages back, I saw some people talking about how Mirai should gain equal criticism for her PCS with Alina, since they are probably at the same level artistically. So in this case, they should be having almost the same PCS. Why on earth should Alina be beating Mirai by a whopping 11 points here? Both skated clean.

Currently I think that Evgenia, Alina, Kaetlyn, and Carolina are the most overscored. But Evgenia’s and Alina’s inflations are just up to another level...

It's a misconception that Alina was a consistent skater this season. She didn't skate a clean SP and had several FS with minor mistakes until Nationals. Mai and Wakaba were just as consistent this season and neither got the same PCS inflation Alina got and they both have decent programs and SS. Bradie was also just as consistent, but didn't get such a huge PCS bump either (neither should she).

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

The great thing about Alina's program is that the first half totally holds our interest despite holding off on the jumps.

It has gotten better at doing this in the first half as the season has gone on. But it's simply unavoidable that the second half looks like a jump fest, because it IS one. I know she's trying to do a jump on each stanza of the music or whatever, but her demeanour and aesthetics change from artistry and interpretation into a focused athlete trying to do a gauntlet of jumps. Like the smile we see in her footwork is gone, the arms are stiffer, everything becomes more calculated to get the jumps and job done. For me, the performance quality is diminished because there's so much back-to-back jumping. It's definitely exhausting to do, but it's also exhausting to watch.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

And a few pages back, I saw some people talking about how Mirai should gain equal criticism for her PCS with Alina, since they are probably at the same level artistically. So in this case, they should be having almost the same PCS. Why on earth should Alina be beating Mirai by a whopping 11 points here? Both skated clean.

I enjoyed Mirai and relish her success but I would score Alina much more in PCS too. I took a look at that the results Page and the only mark on my own score card that would show noticeable variance would be in PE which I would drop Alina closer to 9.25 - 9.0 but the rest of the marks between the two seems totally spot on IMO.

I’ll admit that when I see Mirai’s program I’m immediately comparing the performance level to that of Satoko and it really falls flat. So that is an unfortunate thing I can’t unsee. But even just comparing Alina to Mirai on a performance level...Alina would likely get 6-9 pts advantage from me in the FS in this event.

Alina:
SS : 9.25
TR: 9.25
PE: 9.25
Comp: 8.75
INT: 9.0

Mirai
SS: 8.0
TR: 7.25
PE: 8.25
Comp: 7.75
INT 7.0

Just because I cheered and gave high fives to my friend who is a major Mirai fan after the performance and 3a doesn’t mean I didn’t also notice the lack of emotion and creativity in her program. I’m not a big fan of Alina’s program but I don’t disagree with the scores necessarily...personally my score card might be a little closer to 150 but I’m not even sure what that means anymore. I may have become rather excited after the 3z-3lo which was all that!!! I guess if I was in an Olympic judge’s place maybe I too would add points to everyone’s score. I guess I won’t know unless I get the chance some day.

I thought the judges actually did a great job reflecting the PCS difference I saw between the skaters this time.:confused2:

 

[Anyasnake]

Next Olympics, let's have different thread even for the Team event... Ice Dance and Men got burried here

 

[moriel]

Actually, Mirai’s based value would be higher that Alina’s. She lost points on a spin level, Step sequence, and was slightly early with her 2A combo and lost the bonus. The difference in their BV would be Mirai: 67.06 and Alina: 66.01.

well, i dont think there is any point in comparing the planned BV with actually achieved BV.
Has Mirai ever achieved 67 BV internationally?

 

[Icey]

Why are Chan and Rippon both doing two double axels?

 

[tjb]

Mirai should gain equal criticism for her PCS with Alina, since they are probably at the same level artistically.

are you serious?

 

[chloepoco]

This. Also, people bring up Leonova but she was never an "up and rising star" like Mirai was back in the day. It's not even a comparison. Mirai was robbed of Bronze at Vancouver at 16, and she was at her peak then. I don't think Leonova has ever come even remotely close to Mirai's achievements between the ages of 14-16.

And yes, the PCS is ridiculous. I love how they are also prepping low PCS for Satoko and establishing an inflation for the OARs/Osmond/Kostner. I don't even need to watch the Olympics to know who will end up on the podium.

Also, Kolyada was overscored. I don't even like Adam but I think he should've gotten silver. Russian fed is still paying good money, and not just for the ladies.

Satoko was sooooo low-balled on PCS!!!