Worlds: Ladies FS

[VenusHalley]

Not to mention that Rika got similar PCS for skate with ONE mistake as Alina had for that carrot cake of skate at euros.

Rika was skating with music the whole time and is just more refined that Zhenya or Alina.

 

[Blades of Passion]

I can certainly appreciate a difference of opinion here but I think I’m starting to prefer programs like Lil Bet’s. Honestly probably have for a few years now. Programs focused on delivering a relentless focus of technical proficiency. I do think there is a growing contingency of fans and even ISU officials that are embracing it too. So I don’t necessarily think scores we see are necessarily wrong.

A program can show "relentless technical proficiency" and still interpret the music and have real choreography though. Something like Slutskaya's 2006 SP is way better than this crap we are seeing IMO. I don't think it's accurate to call Elizabet's program relentless anyway, as she slows down and breaks from performing (or doing any transitions) when going into jumps, and still has a "slow section" in the program. This wasn't an Eteri program that's filled with nonsense transitions and choppy movement and concepts, it was just a typical lackluster CoP program, having little that makes it special, because of trying to chase a rigid set of tech elements and predetermined movement, at the cost of real artistry.

I'm not so sure about people embracing it, so much as not knowing any better, and just accepting what's there. If we saw competitors who could consistently do the tech content while having "beautiful" programs, then the Eteri skaters would not receive the scores they do, as people would see the direct comparison of what's better. Unfortunately, the judges just give the scores to what is consistently presented to them, and then that warps the entire sport. Nobody is trying to create truly beautiful programs anymore (or at least, they are simply unable to, because of the restrictions of the rules).

 

[Scott512]

LOL, that transparent bias! Medvedeva had technical deficiencies, she didn't skate "clean" as far as the scoring is concerned. Flawed lutz edge, stilted landing and no lift on the axel, no choreographic step sequence, lower quality spins. Skating a "clean" program doesn't mean you automatically beat everyone who didn't anyway.

I will say that purely on the performance component, Medvedeva was best for me among the Long Programs. She had a magnetic aura of confidence, projected quite well, and did not rush through her movements. Her other components are not as strong though; the program itself was bland and displayed lesser skating skill.

We are like s cat (irska) chasing its tail with this topic. I will end it by saying if Rika made one less mistake she would have medalled. Her game is risk versus reward. It pays off sometimes but it costs her too. Not medallling at worlds at home has to hurt. She will be back. But Alina will have more reinforcements next season.

 

[silveruskate]

LOL, that transparent bias! Medvedeva had technical deficiencies, she didn't skate "clean" as far as the scoring is concerned. Flawed lutz edge, stilted landing and no lift on the axel, no choreographic step sequence, lower quality spins. Skating a "clean" program doesn't mean you automatically beat everyone who didn't anyway.

I will say that purely on the performance component, Medvedeva was best for me among the Long Programs. She had a magnetic aura of confidence, projected quite well, and did not rush through her movements. Her other components are not as strong though; the program itself was bland and displayed lesser skating skill.

For her FCSp4 she was mostly given 2s by most judges, you can say it should be a little lower, but no one said it was a perfect spin. If it was it would get 5 isn't it? Both her other spins were given 3s by most judges. Her 2A in combination was given an average of 3. I was going to say the Lutz judging is a problem for all skaters, and Rika for example loses out, but no where in the judging handbook or GOE document is it listed that deep/shallow edge is a consideration for GOE at all. They just don't care, maybe they should, but they don't and the rules themselves are like that not just judges interpretation.

The GOE system is massively subjective just like PCS but that's figure-skating, I liked Zhenya's other spins for example but you think they're low quality. We watch replays and close up camera views whilst judges have to give their score straight away. Not to mention we can look back and compare the quality of all jumps by all skaters to have a consistent grading whereas judges can't.

 

[kwanatic]

Rika is about triple axels first and everything else second...She [Rika] is fresh from juniors...

I'm going to respond to the first part with a direct quote from rikaquegira:

"Mie Hamada is out there making Rika jump them axels and quads AND work on her skating and presentation at the same time, meanwhile y'all are here trying to imply Rika is just "3As" and nothing more..."

Fresh from juniors has nothing to do with it. Beautiful overall skating is a priority for Rika and many of the Japanese ladies and pretty much always has been. They aim to be both technically and artistically strong. Rika has correct tech on her other jumps, difficult combos, beautiful spins, transitions, thoughtful choreography, engaged performances and amazing skating skills...and 3As. Take the axels away and she still has all of those amazing qualities.

It doesn't matter that she's "fresh from juniors." The skill level and quality are there and should be rewarded accordingly. If Trusova or Shcherbakova land quad lutzes next year would you say they're "fresh from juniors" and therefore shouldn't receive full credit for landing them? Same thing. Acknowledge the skill level and reward it accordingly.

You want to place her above 2 clean ladies, one of whom is double world champion and the other is the first woman with a ratified quad?

Yes, Lil Bet landed a quad...Rika landed a 3A-3T (4.25 points more than Lil Bet's quad), beat her in TES and overall in the FS. Yes, Evgenia won two world titles two years ago...why should that matter this season at this competition? Rika came in as the GPF champ, undefeated internationally this season. If we're looking at accolades/momentum/reputation, how is it Rika not owed the respect of being the top skater of the season at that point? The fall on the 3A was penalized in the TES and did not need to be reflected in the PCS because it didn't disrupt/destroy the performance. She fell at the beginning and finished everything else cleanly. It wasn't a disaster; it was actually a good skate--she beat both of them in the FS.

FACT: Had Alina been in Rika's position (coming from behind after being tapped as the favorite for the competition), she most definitely would have been given the PCS boost needed to place her above both of the others. It's a double standard. Russians get the boost, Japanese don't.

I get that the Japanese women made errors here but I find it extremely unfair that they have to be 100% clean and have zero room for error while the Russians can afford errors and still outscore them. If you're Russian (or more specifically Eteri supported) your errors carry less weight than other skaters. They can afford to make mistakes b/c they get the PCS bump to make up for it.

Additionally that PCS bump is so large that it creates a disproportionate gap between them and the rest of the field that makes it that much harder for anyone else to catch up. (Alina's point spread for her win here was ridiculous considering the performances given by some of the others.) That boost is why despite the flawed but still very strong performances delivered by Rika and Kaori they missed the podium. "They made mistakes." Yeah, they did but if you take away the PCS advantages of the others and put everyone all on even footing with the rest of the field, the scores would be different and so would the podium.

 

[[email protected]]

^^^^^ the whole post

You imply several things which are not either facts or intentions. "Rika is just "3As" and nothing more" I never said that. "First" and "second" mean priorities - "just" means exclusiveness. And I will stand for 3A being the first priority for Rika - her first movement after she finished SP was yet another "3A entry" - Russian commentators picked that up so that I am not alone.

"Eteri's inflation" is just in the minds of the beholders. No matter how "evil" she can be she cannot bribe or put pressure on judges and tech panel especially in Japan. Hence, may be they see what you and other opponets do not see?

Next year juniors are different. Everybody praises Kostornaya's skating quality for the last 2 years while she is still in juniors so that it won't be a surprise next season that she is that good. What I said is that the awe Rika enjoys this year was not the case a year ago so it is a surprise and the reason for my "fresh from juniors". It will be a surprise if people start to praise Trusova's skating skills as well. Because no matter how good a skater she is, she is about quads first and everything else second. Very similar. And if she does not land them she won't get podiums. Very similar, again.

 

[rikaquegira]

For her FCSp4 she was mostly given 2s by most judges, you can say it should be a little lower, but no one said it was a perfect spin. If it was it would get 5 isn't it? Both her other spins were given 3s by most judges. Her 2A in combination was given an average of 3. I was going to say the Lutz judging is a problem for all skaters, and Rika for example loses out, but no where in the judging handbook or GOE document is it listed that deep/shallow edge is a consideration for GOE at all. They just don't care, maybe they should, but they don't and the rules themselves are like that not just judges interpretation.

The GOE system is massively subjective just like PCS but that's figure-skating, I liked Zhenya's other spins for example but you think they're low quality. We watch replays and close up camera views whilst judges have to give their score straight away. Not to mention we can look back and compare the quality of all jumps by all skaters to have a consistent grading whereas judges can't.

What are you even talking about???
Wrong/unclear edges have to be taken into account when assigning GOE.


REDUCTIONS FOR ERRORS
JUMP ELEMENTS

Wrong edge take off F/Lz (sign “e”) -3 to -4
Unclear edge take off F/Lz (sign “!”) -1 to -3
Unclear edge take off F/Lz (no sign) -1


So if the judges thought Medvedeva's Lutz was worth +4(which is already bonkers), if there was an "e" call, that GOE would've been +1 or 0 and the base value would've been 4.43 instead of 5.90.
That's what I'm talking about when I say that the difference between 3rd and 4th place was an uncalled 3Lutz. Rika wuzrobed.

 

[rikaquegira]

^^^^^ the whole post

You imply several things which are not either facts or intentions. "Rika is just "3As" and nothing more" I never said that. "First" and "second" mean priorities - "just" means exclusiveness. And I will stand for 3A being the first priority for Rika - her first movement after she finished SP was yet another "3A entry" - Russian commentators picked that up so that I am not alone.

"Eteri's inflation" is just in the minds of the beholders. No matter how "evil" she can be she cannot bribe or put pressure on judges and tech panel especially in Japan. Hence, may be they see what you and other opponets do not see?

Next year juniors are different. Everybody praises Kostornaya's skating quality for the last 2 years while she is still in juniors so that it won't be a surprise next season that she is that good. What I said is that the awe Rika enjoys this year was not the case a year ago so it is a surprise and the reason for my "fresh from juniors". It will be a surprise if people start to praise Trusova's skating skills as well. Because no matter how good a skater she is, she is about quads first and everything else second. Very similar. And if she does not land them she won't get podiums. Very similar, again.

If you weren't in awe with Rika last season than that's on you. I for one was very much in awe and I always thought Rika was a bit underscored, especially her SP last season. Her PCS was pretty much on par with the Russians or even better(except for Kostornaya). And what are you talking about "It will be a surprise if people start to praise Trusova's skating skills as well"?? There's already people praising Trusova's SS and she already gets way too much credit for it, which was never the case with Rika. And I disagree about Rika being similar to Trusova in the sense of putting quads or 3As first. They're really completely different in that sense. The thing you said the Russian commentators picked up on after the SP was not proof that Rika has the 3A as priority. The thing is, Rika has everything else pretty much sorted out: she has good SS, better musicality than 90% of the ladies, she's improving her transitions season by season, her performance ability is getting better and better; her jumps are okay, just the 3Lo is always a bit scary but the rest is fine; her spins are great except for the sitsp which is always a struggle but she's working on it. So, the only thing that she really had to sort out in the SP was the 3A, so no wonder it is a big focus for her. That doesn't mean that the priority is 3A and the rest comes second. That just doesn't fit the reality. If that was the case, Rika would still be skating like she was skating last season except now with 3As. That's not what is happening.

And once again, I ask: you people don't take any issue with Medvedeva's 3Lz not being called? Because that's what cost Rika a medal, not the fall on a 3A which is basically her "spare triple" because she still landed other 7 triples just like every other top lady(except Elizabet). This idea that Rika needed to land all her triple axels to get on the podium is simply ridiculous. It is simple math, her base value allowed her to make a few mistakes in the competition and still get to the podium because the only ladies who had competitive bv were Alina and Elizabet, the rest was quite lower than Rika's and on top of that, most ladies have average or below average jumps so it's not like they could surpass Rika with GOE. I mean, if judging was fair.

 

[Blades of Passion]

For her FCSp4 she was mostly given 2s by most judges, you can say it should be a little lower, but no one said it was a perfect spin. If it was it would get 5 isn't it? Both her other spins were given 3s by most judges.

This is a fallacy. If a spin deserves to be scored lower, then it deserves to be scored lower. Just because an element didn't get a 5, that doesn't mean it wasn't overscored. I found all of her spins at this competition to have lackluster positions for the most part and not great speed. It's questionable if she even deserved level credit for that semi-upright position where she just hunches forward and puts one arm behind her back - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ajm5f9-BKjA&t=2m55s. That kind of position is something I could do in my first year ever as a skater, with no real spin training at the time. It's not really a "difficult variation", she either needs to twist her body core more, or raise the free leg higher, or put both arms behind her back, for this to be considered difficult enough for a level credit.

"Eteri's inflation" is just in the minds of the beholders. No matter how "evil" she can be she cannot bribe or put pressure on judges and tech panel

Sorry but you don't understand the politics that happen in figure skating if you think this. It's not just a matter of her either, it's how things have always been.

"Rika is just "3As" and nothing more" I never said that.

What I said is that the awe Rika enjoys this year was not the case a year ago so it is a surprise and the reason for my "fresh from juniors". It will be a surprise if people start to praise Trusova's skating skills as well. Because no matter how good a skater she is, she is about quads first and everything else second. Very similar. And if she does not land them she won't get podiums. Very similar, again.

In one breath you claim to not dismiss Rika's skating ability and then in the next breath you say she IS about the 3A above everything else, the same as Trusova with the Quad. So you continue to draw false comparisons and try to degrade Rika's ability. She had better skating skills than any of the Russians at Worlds, and Rika's program with a fall on one 3A deserves to outscore what everyone else did, since her program is much harder. The better comparison is how the top guys with quads are able to fall on a quad and still outscore everyone else (not saying this is always deserved though). If you have good overall skating/performance ability and much harder content, then 1 fall does not suddenly put you below people who have significantly inferior content and no PCS advantage.

 

[kwanatic]

^^^^^ the whole post

You imply several things which are not either facts or intentions. "Rika is just "3As" and nothing more" I never said that. "First" and "second" mean priorities - "just" means exclusiveness. And I will stand for 3A being the first priority for Rika - her first movement after she finished SP was yet another "3A entry" - Russian commentators picked that up so that I am not alone.

"Eteri's inflation" is just in the minds of the beholders. No matter how "evil" she can be she cannot bribe or put pressure on judges and tech panel especially in Japan. Hence, may be they see what you and other opponets do not see?

Next year juniors are different. Everybody praises Kostornaya's skating quality for the last 2 years while she is still in juniors so that it won't be a surprise next season that she is that good. What I said is that the awe Rika enjoys this year was not the case a year ago so it is a surprise and the reason for my "fresh from juniors". It will be a surprise if people start to praise Trusova's skating skills as well. Because no matter how good a skater she is, she is about quads first and everything else second. Very similar. And if she does not land them she won't get podiums. Very similar, again.

Well most skaters who include a 3A (Mao, Liza T, Mirai) all did/do the jump as the first jump in the program b/c it takes a lot of energy. Same reason the very first jump Lil Bet did in her FS was the quad... Rika does two 3As so it would make sense that she does them back to back. That doesn't mean it's a priority; it means, logistically, it needs to be done first in the program.

Many Russians and Eteri's students in particular receive GOE and PCS boosts relative to other skaters. All you have to do is look at the spread of scores from competition to competition. If I cared about this sport the way I used to, I'd analyze the GOE & PCS received by the top 3 women versus the women who placed 4th-6th here and produce quantitative data to support my claim that there was a scoring bias. Will I do that? Nope. I don't have that kind of time on my hands... Maybe one day when I get bored I will if only to present irrefutable evidence that the scoring is slanted. If you don't think so you're entitled to your opinion but I think you're being a bit myopic in terms of the bigger picture...

I follow the junior women very closely and I know Rika was hit or miss last season. This year she gained more maturity, fluidity and presence which has improved her overall presentation on the ice. The biggest difference, however, is the fact that she gained more consistency which allowed all of her great qualities to shine brighter. When skaters are inconsistent it makes it difficult to gain an appreciation for what they can do. She had her issues this season but she was able to deliver and win nearly everything...hence the awe. It may look like she came out of nowhere but she was always there. Only difference is it was easier to see her this season because she wasn't buried under bad results.

We can agree that Trusova is all about the jumps. There is very little attention to anything other than the technical side. I expect her to win a lot based off of her TES...not her PCS. If she earns top PCS next season I will officially be done with this sport!

We can also agree to disagree, as always. I think certain skaters were held up which (whether intentional or not) held others down. You disagree. On and on the world turns

 

[melgirl25]

I am surprised people are not mad at the judging as a whole and are blaming Rika's results on Evgenia's lutz. Yes, if she got an edge call or lower GOE should would have been 4th but everyone got gifts - no edge calls, ignored under rotation calls (Mariah Bell, Alina 3Lo in Free, etc.), dramatic PCS boosts so how can you really know when the rest was all wrong too. The whole wheel is broken. You would need to judge it all over with Shin Amano and a judging panel like at GPF Final or Europeans which IMO was less shady.

If Mariah Bell was called then Rika would have been in the last group. Maybe it would have made a difference. I also have to wonder, if Rika had landed that 3A in the short and gotten a huge score, would Alina been as confident as she was skating next.

 

[[email protected]]

If you have good overall skating/performance ability and much harder content, then 1 fall does not suddenly put you below people who have significantly inferior content and no PCS advantage.

It's the argument that allows various interpretations. "Significantly inferior content" of whom? Elizabeth with a quad or Evgenija who delivered same 7 clean triples as Rika?

Yes, of course, 3A is the most valuable triple jump. At the same time, it was appreciated: skating in the last but one group Rika even with a fall in the free program won 3 points over Medvedeva and 4 points over Lizbet.

Her problems were: 0 points for the axel in the short program while the other skaters got 4.5 points for it, losing 3-4 points of pcs because of the flop in the short and the fall in the free program which makes sense because those 2 things disrupt the impression, and losing several points by not skating in the last group.

This last group thing is there. It affected even Mao. I understand that skaters should not have the "discount" of not skating in the last group. But again this is the history, traditions - it works like that and I take is as an objective thing. To skate in the last group Rika had to fly to Europe where she participated in kind of an obscure competition that gave her necessary points. At least it is the only reasonable explanation why her team did it. So, those who are inside attach sense to it. And we may like it or not but it's the reality of figure skating.

As many people agreed before the WC, with her content she had "the luxury" of 1 mistake on 3A. With a clean 3A in the short program she could be in the lead and put the pressure on Zagitova. Then with 1 fall in the free program it could 50/50 - I am talking about the gold medal. But she made 2 major mistakes which for me makes the argument of "much harder content" illogical. There were 2 men skaters from Russia and the USA who sort of had 4Lz. A very hard content, indeed. But both of them delivered it only once.

 

[jenm]

I think there's a lot people here forgetting that the difference between no axel and a 2A is not that big since the 2A is worth just 3.30. A +5 2A would be 4.95 but no lady had that good of a 2A, in the end the difference is of about 4 or 4.50 points. Rika had a major advantage, base value wise, over almost all ladies, except Alina and Elizabet. Missing the Axel in the SP is not that big of a problem. Falling on the 3A in the Free was a bigger problem but she still got something from it. And let's not forget that Rika is the only lady with an 8 triple program. She misses a 3A, there's still 7 triples left which is the basic for most ladies except for Elizabet who has 6 triples + 4S.

Medvdeva's elements were massively overscored. Her 3Flutz got +4s for god's sake... But y'all don't take issue with that? That's totally fine? Rika didn't got a medal because the TP didn't call Medvedeva's Lutz, that's it. That's what happened, end of story. That's the reality. Not to mention Evgenia's PCS which were just a result of "reputation judging", it had nothing to do with what was presented.

For those saying Rika or Kaori were overscored in PCS, first of all, Kaori should've been getting 70+ PCS since the start of the season. Kaori is not below Alina or Evgenia or Elizabet when it comes to PCS. Each has their own strength and things they could improve of course.
Rika's PCS were never a big issue for me, although her FS at NHK could've got a bit more points.
Rika is one of the few skaters, very few, who actually improves their skating season by season, month by month, competition by competition. It makes sense her PCS rising. She is not the same skater from Jr, please. She really isn't. Go watch her FS from JGP and watch her FS at Saitama. The improvement in SS is perhaps the least impressive imo, but all the rest is pretty amazing. In terms of interpretation, performance and wow the transitions! Rika of this season is doing things that last season's Rika could only dream of! So don't act like Rika is stagnant, just because she's fresh from Jr doesn't mean she hasn't have the time to improve. She had and she used it well, working with Tom Dickson whenever possible did her wonders! Tell me how many skaters you follow have went back to their choreographers to work on their programs? Both Rika and Kaori did it throughout the season and it shows.

Sorry about my rant but I just can't with all of these biased comments. It's always like this: "Japanese ladies are overscored in PCS" when the reality is that they ARE actually great skaters. Mie Hamada is out there making Rika jump them axels and quads AND work on her skating and presentation at the same time, meanwhile y'all are here trying to imply Rika is just "3As" and nothing more. Take the 3As away, Rika has two beautiful programs, the FS especially is one of the best of this season, it was definitely one of the best from Worlds. So don't act like just because she fell once her program was not top notch anymore because it was. She landed other 7 triples, including a 3A+3T, first lady to do so in a World Championship.
Again, she didn't medal because TP was useless all the way in this competition, not because she "didn't help herself"...

Amen.

Rika's programs are some of my favorite this season alongside Satoko's and Kaori's. Japanese ladies have great skating skills. Their flow on the ice was really something compared to the rest of the field.
As much as I'm proud of Zhenya for her comeback story, and doing so well after all her struggles this season, I really do think Rika was robbed of a medal here by virtue of PCS alone, not to mention the TP being absolutely useless since the short program. Rika is more than just technical elements, she's a diamond in the rough IMO, the only top lady right now with a true Lutz and 3A+3T.

Anyway

Congratulations to Alina! She redeemed herself from last year's Worlds, RusNats and Euros. I may not agree with her PCS and GOEs but she really really was the clear winner here and I'm so proud of her for overcoming everything, winning in life. Go girl!

LilBet making history is one of the best things to happen this season. She literally wasn't even considered a top contender by anyone until 4CC and then BAM! So proud!

Zhenya. That skate was so full of emotions. I really felt her victory over her struggles with every jump she landed. I'm so proud of her. She's on an upswing and I'm rooting for her to stay on that track for next season. Altho, I do not agree her PCS should be at 72. It was, to me, a clear reputation judging. Because her SS seemed more labored than before with the wobbling of edges and turns. It just felt heavy plus the tango didn't feel like a tango to me.

Rika huhuhu. Should've been on the podium as stated above but this is only the beginning for her. As we've seen all season, she will use this experience to do better next time. Rika is a complete package and I'm so excited to see what happens next in her career. I'm really really not sure why Zhenya and Alina were held up in PCS in their past competitions even though they made mistakes but Rika was held down here when she has better SS and better jumps overall. Idk. I really don't get it.

But the real highway robbery for me was Satoko's PCS. What in the world is happening to Satoko's PCS? Where are they hiding it? Satton's free was, to me, the best in that event. She performed the heck out of that tango. Yes, her jumps are small blah blah. But everything else she did was magnificent. I really don't get why Zhenya's tango scored more than Satton's. I mean the difference in the lightness, flow, and overall quality of skating is not even close. Yes, I am mad. XD

Kaori's skating is just so fluid. My friend watched with me and this is her first time watching. She was really amazed at how Kaori's everything just flowed together seamlessly. I mean, that turns with the 3Lo. I hope she gets the PCS she deserves next season. PLEASE JAPAN. DO A LITTLE BIT OF POLITICKING!!! D*MN IT.

 

[esteticlove]

And once again, I ask: you people don't take any issue with Medvedeva's 3Lz not being called? Because that's what cost Rika a medal, not the fall on a 3A which is basically her "spare triple" because she still landed other 7 triples just like every other top lady(except Elizabet). This idea that Rika needed to land all her triple axels to get on the podium is simply ridiculous. It is simple math, her base value allowed her to make a few mistakes in the competition and still get to the podium because the only ladies who had competitive bv were Alina and Elizabet, the rest was quite lower than Rika's and on top of that, most ladies have average or below average jumps so it's not like they could surpass Rika with GOE. I mean, if judging was fair.

No, you are wrong. We are very well aware that the tech panel did a bad job at those Championships. This has been already wildly discussed. However, you make it sound as if Medvedeva's uncalled lutz was the only problem. Yes, her edge should have been called. Kaori's too. Elizabeth's should have been unclear (!). Not to mention Samodourova, whose 3Lutz was originally taken for a flip. You also still try to imply that Evgenia won just because her Lutz wasn't called but her -3T in the SP was unfairly called under (whereas Mariah Bell's wasn't) which cost her points too.

I understand that you are upset, I was also devastated for Rika. I love her free program, I have already written in another thread that her FS is my favourite of the season. I do recognize her not only for her 3Axels but for the artistry, the refinement in her movements and her skating skills. However, truth is that she lost because of the failure during the short program and the fall in the free. That's the risk of having big elements - if you land those axels, you are unbeatable, but if you don't it's another story. I don't agree that she has to get a boost just because she has planned those harder jumps.

 

[rikaquegira]

No, you are wrong. We are very well aware that the tech panel did a bad job at those Championships. This has been already wildly discussed. However, you make it sound as if Medvedeva's uncalled lutz was the only problem. Yes, her edge should have been called. Kaori's too. Elizabeth's should have been unclear (!). Not to mention Samodourova, whose 3Lutz was originally taken for a flip. You also still try to imply that Evgenia won just because her Lutz wasn't called but her -3T in the SP was unfairly called under (whereas Mariah Bell's wasn't) which cost her points too.

I understand that you are upset, I was also devastated for Rika. I love her free program, I have already written in another thread that her FS is my favourite of the season. I do recognize her not only for her 3Axels but for the artistry, the refinement in her movements and her skating skills. However, truth is that she lost because of the failure during the short program and the fall in the free. That's the risk of having big elements - if you land those axels, you are unbeatable, but if you don't it's another story. I don't agree that she has to get a boost just because she has planned those harder jumps.

I don’t agree she has to get a boost either and I never said that. And no, I don’t think the only problem in that event was Evgenia’s uncalled Lutz. I’ve mentioned the general incompetence from the TP before in this thread. I was just focusing on Rika and Evgenia because the difference between them was less than a point, that was the difference between medal or no medal for Rika. That’s what I was talking about. If I were to talk about all of the other issues ignored by the technical panel I would have to write a book here.

 

[zounger]

With all due respect, but what kind of argument is this with Sofia's lutz? It was mistaken not because the judges thought it was Flip, but just a mistake filling the software. They could have fill the software with step sequence by mistake rather than Lutz or whatever.

 

[rikaquegira]

I am surprised people are not mad at the judging as a whole and are blaming Rika's results on Evgenia's lutz. Yes, if she got an edge call or lower GOE should would have been 4th but everyone got gifts - no edge calls, ignored under rotation calls (Mariah Bell, Alina 3Lo in Free, etc.), dramatic PCS boosts so how can you really know when the rest was all wrong too. The whole wheel is broken. You would need to judge it all over with Shin Amano and a judging panel like at GPF Final or Europeans which IMO was less shady.

If Mariah Bell was called then Rika would have been in the last group. Maybe it would have made a difference. I also have to wonder, if Rika had landed that 3A in the short and gotten a huge score, would Alina been as confident as she was skating next.

I’m not “blaming” Rika’s results on Evgenia’s Lutz. I’m simply stating a fact: if the TP had done their job properly, Evgenia’s 3Lz would’ve been called(and maybe other things as well but I’ll let it slide) and just with that, the advantage over Rika would be gone and Rika would’ve won a medal. That’s a fact. In a perfect world, the technical panel would’ve had distributed edge calls and underotations left and right in that event but I feel like that was too much to ask, to be realistic. What I expected was for at least the most blaring mistakes to be called but not even that. They were extremely selective and random and downright useless in the end(and I’ve commented on this on my first post on this thread).
Don’t be mistaken, I am upset about everyone’s scores to be honest, but I only have so much time.

 

[rikaquegira]

With all due respect, but what kind of argument is this with Sofia's lutz? It was mistaken not because the judges thought it was Flip, but just a mistake filling the software. They could have fill the software with step sequence by mistake rather than Lutz or whatever.

huh???
wouldn’t that be a beautiful excuse?!
lmao
Were you at the technical panel?

 

[zounger]

huh???
wouldn’t that be a beautiful excuse?!
lmao
Were you at the judging panel?

I guess you were. Ok then. End of story, enjoy the rest of the thread.

P.S. That Lutz was bad.

 

[NoviceFan]

I’m not “blaming” Rika’s results on Evgenia’s Lutz. I’m simply stating a fact: if the TP had done their job properly, Evgenia’s 3Lz would’ve been called(and maybe other things as well but I’ll let it slide) and just with that, the advantage over Rika would be gone and Rika would’ve won a medal. That’s a fact. In a perfect world, the technical panel would’ve had distributed edge calls and underotations left and right in that event but I feel like that was too much to ask, to be realistic. What I expected was for at least the most blaring mistakes to be called but not even that. They were extremely selective and random and downright useless in the end(and I’ve commented on this on my first post on this thread).
Don’t be mistaken, I am upset about everyone’s scores to be honest, but I only have so much time.

Sorry, but just a couple of posts ago, you were in fact, blaming Evgenia's lutz for Rika's results.

...Rika didn't got a medal because the TP didn't call Medvedeva's Lutz, that's it. That's what happened, end of story. That's the reality...

After already conceding that the technical panel was what it was, to isolate one non-call as the sole reason for an outcome that you do not favor is quite simplistic.

Again - I wish the technical panel did its job. But selective outrage is :noshake: