Worlds: Ladies FS

[moriel]

Lets look at Jump BV only. To be fair, lets use the following formula: for jumps with positive GOE, only the BV is taken, so any ok or great lutz gets 5,9. Now, if the GOE is negative, we will use BV + GOE to account for the mistake. If there is a fall, the -1.0 deduction is also added. I dont like the idea of using just BV because the fact that skater tried does not mean a successfull execution. On the other hand, dropping the element entirely would be unfair.

Added across 2 programs, actual placement in ().
1. (1) Zagitova 67,77
2. (2) Tursynbaeva 65,49
3. (4) Kihira 63,98
4. (7) Tennell 63,78
5. (9) Bell 63,56
6. (8) Samodurova 62,32
7. (6) Miyahara 61,65
8. (3) Medvedeva 61,09
9. (10) Lim 60,31
10. (5) Sakamoto 58,2

Ordered by placement difference:
Medvedeva 5
Sakamoto 5
Miyahara 1
Tursynbaeva 0
Zagitova 0
Kihira -1
Lim -1
Samodurova -2
Tennell -3
Bell -4


My thoughts here: Medvedeva and Kaori were overscored. Medvedeva dunno why. Kaori probably because she was the last japanese to skate.
I don't want to sound like a hater here, but both didn't bring some godly level of performance, transitions, spins and overall quality of everything to justify such a difference.

With all due respect, Kihira should have been 3rd here.

 

[randomfan]

Brace yourselves for an incredibly long post (really sorry but dividing it into separate ones is too tedious). I decided to try judging the top 10 myself, just out of curiosity. Everyone has their own opinion, so if I hammerd your faves, I’ll apologize in advance and please don’t take it too seriously! Obviously these scores are not from the average of 7 judges like in actual protocols, so PCS always ends with a 0, and factored GOE values are not as diverse. The brackets have the skater’s original placement and score.

SP:
1. Sakamoto 42.34+34.40 = 76.74 (2; 76.86)
2. Zagitova 42.56+33.40 = 75.96 (1; 82.08)
3. Lim 40.74+32.60 = 73.34 (5; 72.91)
4. Miyahara 37.49+35.60 = 73.09 (8; 70.60)
5. Medvedeva 37.41+35.40 = 72.81 (4; 74.23)
6. Tursynbaeva 40.29+32.40 = 72.69 (3; 75.96)
7. Kihira 36.86+33.40 = 70.26 (7; 70.90)
8. Samodurova 37.86+32.00 = 69.86 (9; 70.42)
9. Bell 36.76+33.00 = 69.76 (6; 71.26)
10. Tennell 36.11+33.00 = 69.11 (10; 69.50)

URs on Bell’s 3T, Medvedeva’s 3T, Miyahara’s 3T, Tennell’s 3T

FS:
1. Kihira 79.28+70.00-1 = 148.28 (2; 152.59)
2. Zagitova 74.64+68.00 = 142.64 (1; 155.42)
3. Miyahara 70.85+71.00 = 141.85 (6; 145.35)
4. Tursynbaeva 74.70+66.40 = 141.10 (4; 148.80)
5. Tennell 73.64+66.80 = 140.44 (7; 143.97)
6. Sakamoto 69.41+70.40 = 139.81 (5; 145.97)
7. Bell 66.40+68.00 = 134.40 (9; 136.81)
8. Medvedeva 66.48+66.40 = 132.88 (3; 149.57)
9. Samodurova 67.52+64.40 = 131.92 (8; 138.16)
10. Lim 65.36+63.60-1 = 127.96 (10; 132.66)

URs on Zagitova’s 3Lo, Kihira’s second 3A, Medvedeva’s first 3Lo and second 2A, Miyahara’s 3F and 2Lo, Tennell’s 2Lo
“e” call on Sakamoto’s 3Lz, Medvedeva’s 3Lz
“!” call on Tennell’s first 3Lz, Samodurova’s 3Lz (really unsure of this, so I gave benefit of the doubt), both of Bell’s 3Lz and first 3F, Lim’s first 3Lz

Total:
1. Zagitova 218.60 (1; 237.50)
2. Kihira 218.54 (4; 223.49)
3. Sakamoto 216.55 (5; 222.83)
4. Miyahara 214.94 (6; 215.95)
5. Tursynbaeva 213.79 (2; 224.76)
6. Tennell 209.55 (7; 213.47)
7. Medvedeva 205.69 (3; 223.80)
8. Bell 204.16 (9; 208.07)
9. Samodurova 201.78 (8; 208.58)
10. Lim 201.30 (10; 205.57)

I have to say, I’m very surprised at how things turned out, even though I tried to be as objective as possible. I didn’t remove any calls that already existed, but I still wasn’t as lenient as the actual TP was. Also I didn’t change levels for spins and steps because I’m still not entirely sure on the requirements. And lastly, I’m not too good at “!” calls, so I might have missed some.

As many posters here have already pointed out, the Japanese ladies’ programs are superior to the others, and so it seems that in my scoring, their PCS were what mainly helped their scores. Yes, I gave Satoko URs, but her PCS was still underscored in both programs, so she has a small difference in total score. I personally think Bradie’s PE is a lot better than people say it is, so that definitely helped her PCS too. And for Evgenia, I too was really shocked at how low she got. Even with the calls, I didn’t think she’d get a whole 10 points less in TES, but now I see that the big difference in GOE also contributed to that. As for the relatively low PCS, I really don’t see much in this program. The choreo is dull, there aren’t many transitions, and even though she's known for selling her programs, her PE here wasn’t that great. Her SP PCS would’ve translated to a 70.80 in the FS, which shows how lacking this program is in comparison.

 

[tral]

Hmm! Sounds to me like some of you think Medevdeva should not have medaled because she was not perfect. Well she did stay on her feet. I have never been a fan of her style of skating, think it is kind of boring, but after all her struggles threw the season to be able to skate as well as she did is pretty amazing. Why is it so necessary for some of you to pick apart another Skater because your favorite did not win. And saying that Kihira should be put ahead of every one because she is the better skater is like saying Alina should win over everyone because she is Olympic Champ.

I don't believe anyone said that... Kihira should have been put ahead because overall her skating in this competition was better, and she even had the hardest combo out there. For me, Sakamoto should have been put ahead despite the 1F, because her skating skills, jump quality of what she did deliver, transitions, choreography and interpretation were all superior. In other words, because her overall skating in this competition was also superior.

 

[Blades of Passion]

Sounds to me like some of you think Medevdeva should not have medaled because she was not perfect. Well she did stay on her feet. I have never been a fan of her style of skating, think it is kind of boring, but after all her struggles threw the season to be able to skate as well as she did is pretty amazing. Why is it so necessary for some of you to pick apart another skater because your favorite did not win.

Struggles early in a season are irrelevant to how she actually skated and should be scored at this competition. She is not being picked apart because of anyone else. The scoring system inherently asks us to pick apart everyone's skating and many competitors stayed on their feet, yet did not medal.

And saying that Kihira should be put ahead because she is the better skater is like saying Alina should win over everyone because she is Olympic Champ.

False equivalency. The former statement - saying someone deserves to score higher because of their skating quality and technical content, as compared to other competitors, is an assessment of what actually happened on the ice. The latter statement - saying someone deserves to win because of a previous title, is an assessment based upon reputation/fandom rather than analysis...similar to saying someone deserves a medal because you are personally touched by them doing better than earlier in the season. I was happy to see Medvedeva on a path towards recovery as well, but she has much to work on still.

 

[oatmella]

Is it possible that Rika and Kaori had overtrained? Rika seemed very busy since 4CC with trip to Colorado and another competition, and I believe Kaori was training up to 8 hours a day after disappointment at 4CC.

 

[Autumn Leaves]

Oatmella, you do have a point. Raf said he refused to Nathan to meet a week before the WC to train, because he was afraid that Nathan would peak before the WC, while showing his coach all of his work. It sounded weird, but it maybe true. Zagitova seemed to have a similar problem during the EC and later there were reports that her coaches alleviated her schedule.

And there was too puch pressure on the Japanese ladies as favorites; being the favorite is much more difficult than catching up. I am really sorry Rika didn‘t medal, she had a great season and is a formidable warrior. But it was just one competition and she is young, so she still has all the chances.

 

[TA91]

Oatmella, you do have a point. Raf said he refused to Nathan to meet a week before the WC to train, because he was afraid that Nathan would peak before the WC, while showing his coach all of his work. It sounded weird, but it maybe true. Zagitova seemed to have a similar problem during the EC and later there were reports that her coaches alleviated her schedule.

Did he say that recently? The plan that I heard about was that Raf wanted Nathan to train with him for at least a month before Worlds but it didn't happen because he got sick.

 

[Scott512]

Is it possible that Rika and Kaori had overtrained? Rika seemed very busy since 4CC with trip to Colorado and another competition, and I believe Kaori was training up to 8 hours a day after disappointment at 4CC.

Peaking too early happens. Plushenko is still upset about peaking too early for the 2002 Salt Lake City Winter Olympics. He said he got to the Olympic games too soon and burned himself out and that may have been what happened to the Japanese girls. Especially considering the World championships were in their Homeland and that does add extra stress and pressure.

 

[SkateSkates]

I have a question - why isn’t Rika maxing out her BV by adding a double axel? We know she can do a 2A-Eu-3S combo. Why doesn’t she do this for the 3 jump combo and do a solo 3Lz instead? She could even max it further by adding another double axel and making the first lutz combo a 3Lz+3Lo but that would be an insane layout (like Sasha). I think doing one of these things would have clearly put her on the podium here even with the other mistakes.

 

[oatmella]

Did he say that recently? The plan that I heard about was that Raf wanted Nathan to train with him for at least a month before Worlds but it didn't happen because he got sick.

Yes, he said that in a couple interviews, right before and after Worlds.

Raf didn’t want Nathan to come back to California for just a week - said he would be trying too hard to impress his coach and would get tired. If Nathan had two weeks, he would have let him come back for training - as he could train harder the first week and take it easier the second week.

Nathan going back to train for a month had not been the plan, as he had midterms.

Also at one practice at Worlds (between SP and FS), he wouldn’t allow Nathan to jump.

 

[Figure 8's]

Struggles early in a season are irrelevant to how she actually skated and should be scored at this competition. She is not being picked apart because of anyone else. The scoring system inherently asks us to pick apart everyone's skating and many competitors stayed on their feet, yet did not medal.



False equivalency. The former statement - saying someone deserves to score higher because of their skating quality and technical content, as compared to other competitors, is an assessment of what actually happened on the ice. The latter statement - saying someone deserves to win because of a previous title, is an assessment based upon reputation/fandom rather than analysis...similar to saying someone deserves a medal because you are personally touched by them doing better than earlier in the season. I was happy to see
Medvedeva on a path towards recovery as well, but she has much to work on still.

You obviously missed the whole context of my post. Did not say Medvedeva should medal because she struggled. I said it was amazing she could put out a skate like that after struggling all year. But some seem to think that the Japanese Ladies should have been given medals because they have superior programs and were under scored because they skated last. Guess we should just eliminate completions and judging and award medals based on favorites. Just like horse racing, the best horse does not always win and so the best skater does not always win. I wish people would just stop blaming and picking apart other skaters because their favorite did not win. That is all I have to say on this matter.

 

[tral]

But some seem to think that the Japanese Ladies should have been given medals because they have superior programs and were under scored because they skated last.

Btw, I am guessing no one is saying that the Japanese ladies were underscored because they skated last. Because they didn't.

 

[yume]

Total:
1. Zagitova 218.60 (1; 237.50)
2. Kihira 218.54 (4; 223.49)
3. Sakamoto 216.55 (5; 222.83)
4. Miyahara 214.94 (6; 215.95)
5. Tursynbaeva 213.79 (2; 224.76)
6. Tennell 209.55 (7; 213.47)
7. Medvedeva 205.69 (3; 223.80)
8. Bell 204.16 (9; 208.07)
9. Samodurova 201.78 (8; 208.58)
10. Lim 201.30 (10; 205.57)
.

I don't agree with everything (i would have Tursynbaeva ahead Miyahara and Bell ahead Medvedeva), but that's more close to what happened on ice.

 

[rollerblade]

I am really sorry Rika didn‘t medal, she had a great season and is a formidable warrior. But it was just one competition and she is young, so she still has all the chances.

Let's just pray she doesn't get any form of injury from [over] training all that 3As and quads. Much like Yuzu; while he can still skate well and deliver a "great" program, but I don't think he will ever fully recover from his ankle injuries.

 

[Scott512]

Let's just pray she doesn't get any form of injury from [over] training all that 3As and quads. Much like Yuzu; while he can still skate well and deliver a "great" program, but I don't think he will ever fully recover from his ankle injuries.

Triple Axel and quad jumps are risk and reward figure skating the risks are immense but the rewards are even more immense. It's a very tough sport on all figure skaters especially those who do quads and triple axels.