2019-20 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

[Mishaminion]

So, some random people, who have never judged in their life, come to YT to write a biased opinion - and this now means that they are experts, that they are right and the judges are wrong, because they wrote in english...�� Are you serious? Everybody can say "i like this performance better, it should be scored better, unfair judging!" But it doesn't make it true. Why do fans always think they know it better? I'm afraid the judges are not the problem in this sport....

Yes!!! Thankyou!!!

I really don't think this "behind the keyboard" judging expert attitude does the sport any favors either, people do not put themselves in the judges shoes. They have a very limited time to judge each performance, they're under a lot of pressure also. We have the advantage of being able to analyse these programs much more leisurely and not just in the moment. They have just minutes to "get it right" while us armchair judges are often at it for years.

Being a judge sounds like a tough, stressful and quite frankly thankless job.

 

[JazzUp]

Daniil with the "senior lady"

Daniil: "Congratulations to Anna on her first win in the new season! Kept our tradition that we started with Alina"

 

[NAOTMAA]

She does a 3-3 in the SP so I don't see any reason why she can't in the LP?

I wouldn't be surprised if team Mishin have probably been fiddling around with the programs so much (they do do that a lot) that they forgot to put it in.

 

[zounger]

She does a 3-3 in the SP so I don't see any reason why she can't in the LP?

FS is 4 min long. She does 2 3A I guess her coach finds risky to include it. I don't think she does it because 3Lz+2A fits more with the choreography. There are a lot of parameters involved.

 

[ruga]

Liza could have had a better chance to win if her layout was bit smarter. That 2A devalues both the axel and her second most valuable jump. Also, no Sal? She is an excellent jumper, but her team needs to take care of her layout and also better packaging. She is lucky to get similar PCS to Anna with very few transitions and choreography that basically consists of arm movements.

 

[Edwin]

Daniil with the "senior lady"

Daniil: "Congratulations to Anna on her first win in the new season! Kept our tradition that we started with Alina"

He should keep that "Highest PCS" plaque, it is for a large part his achievement in Anna's skating. Not overlooking Dudakov's contribution of course, but him being the 'tech man' means he always stays in the background compared to 'the artist'.

 

[skatenewbie]

Liza seriously need to maximize her BV, its a waste of energy doing 2 3A if she lost that point she gain from doing it. The GOE kind of stingy though esp for that 2nd 3A. So Anna and Liza scoring potential is within ~230 range. While Medvedeva is around ~225 range, lets see how other compare next week!

 

[Elaine]

I don't think Mishin lack in ability to maximize points. I mean me end you we can calculate base values and layout and he cannot? The way I see it is that Liza at the moment doesn't have ready stable 3-3 combinations that can be integrated into a program. So this layouts are out of force rather than intelligence.

But she does 3F-3T in the short and I think if she was not confident or consistent enough about the combo they wouldn't have changed the 3T-3T to 3F-3T... It's stable enough to be included in the short but not in the long program?

And btw they really and seriously need to do something to improve the program. And spins. I sort of gave up on her basic skating skills because it will take more time and effort to improve it than she can manage at this stage of her career, but choreo and spins... there must be something that can be done. It got worse than last season.

I really love her jumps and was a fan of both her programs last season (not the best programs in the world but they were at least fun and interesting) but this season both programs disappoint me a lot. Both are poor even for typical Mishin programs.

 

[Mawwerg]

I swear I'm not trying to be a jerk by asking this. I'm honestly asking - what was it then? Are they just making these egregious errors in judging purely by random accident? And it's just certain skater's bad luck that it happened to them?

I know judging is hard. Everyone makes mistakes and gets it wrong. There is always a margin for subjective error, but 10 pts worth? That just so happens to go against the skater who is the biggest threat to the skater of the same nationality as the error prone judge? I'm willing to give a judge the benefit of the doubt, but not that much.

Even if some of them are doing this as a hobby out of the goodness of their hearts, I still think they are vulnerable to influence and pressure. Sometimes that is all a conspiracy is.

I worked with last year JGP tables and sometimes there are really huge range in judges scores. If I remember up to 22 points difference in free programs. People do not notice it because it usually happens to mid tier skaters(those who score somthing like 45 for SP and 90 for FP).

 

[Mishaminion]

FS is 4 min long. She does 2 3A I guess her coach finds risky to include it. I don't think she does it because 3Lz+2A fits more with the choreography. There are a lot of parameters involved.

My first thought was...

"What choreography?!"

There really isn't much in the whole program.

The two 3A's thing might not work out so good for her if she can't put in a 3-3 also. She's throwing away points she can't afford to lose, because the program doesn't have all that much going for it apart from the jumps.

Kihira has a more workable and flexible layout with her 2 3As when she can only get a 2T off the end of one of them.

 

[Vandevska]

Kamila might have the quads but Trusova reigns for her grit and persistence of making quad records. I hope Kamila dont make the Olympics she might steal someone else more deserving that has experience.

Do you even realize how petty this sounds? By this analogy Alina shouldn't have made the Olympics too? Everyone deserving should make it.

 

[Mishaminion]

Oh wow I missed that comment about Kamila!
That really is a very cruel thing to say.
If she keeps throwing out quads and great performances it doesn't matter who did it before her, just that she does it well enough to beat the others and earn her chance.

 

[SXTN]

Has anyone done the maths? Is Liza's current layout with two 3A's lower than last year with only one?

 

[cell]

So, some random people, who have never judged in their life, come to YT to write a biased opinion - and this now means that they are experts, that they are right and the judges are wrong, because they wrote in english...�� Are you serious? Everybody can say "i like this performance better, it should be scored better, unfair judging!" But it doesn't make it true. Why do fans always think they know it better? I'm afraid the judges are not the problem in this sport....

You are saying judges are not a problem when Anna got 0.10 higher in transitions than Elizaveta, 0.05 higher in choreography and less in performance?

 

[Finley]

You are not even talking about the same competition or the same skaters, or the same judge.
I was talking about Lombardia and Anna's SP score.

I'm assuming the Russian judge who went a bit mental with the Patriotic but absurd score had their scores thrown out as the rules state they should be? Therefore they didn't really even impact the competition? Isn't that why that rule exists?

I very much think the judge in question should be pulled up and given a stern talking to for being such a blatant idiot, yes.
Still, I don't see a conspiracy as such. If several of them did the same then maybe.

I should have been more clear and specifically included my feelings about Anna's PCS scores in my response. Honestly, I thought I had said enough about that and didn't want to keep going on about it. The horse is not just dead, it's decomposing. But for the record -

Some of the scores Anna received from the judges at Lombardia in comparison with her closest competitor seemed unfair to me.

In this case it appeared to me that the judges were deliberately placing her at a disadvantage to another more experienced senior skater. Since they are both skating for Russia it was not a question of biased national judging but something else altogether. And it wasn't one single judge, it was several of them.

So, what was it? Anna's bad day? Or a consensus among the judges about what scores certain skaters would receive provided they skated their programs cleanly and executed their tech content? Or maybe just a nod to tradition - you just got here, wait your turn for the big numbers.

The definition of conspiracy is a secret plan by a group to do something unlawful or harmful.

It's not exactly an assassination but it could arguably be considered harmful to the sport. Even though it has been going on in this sport since the beginning of time and will probably continue to go on until the end of it. In the grand scheme of things it isn't that big of a deal. Just annoying.

Fortunately we have these threads to vent about the things we find annoying in skating competitions! For some people it's pointed toes and posture. For some it's flutzes. For me it's blatantly biased scoring! Thank you for coming to my TED Talk!

 

[VenusHalley]

To be honest, Elizaveta is a hell of a performer and Anna is still 15, at her first senior competition and she is able to do better than she did here (she did good, but not her best).

 

[Mishaminion]

You are saying judges are not a problem when Anna got 0.10 higher in transitions than Elizaveta and less in performance?

And people keep pointing out that reputation scoring is as old as figure skating competition itself. In an ideal world perhaps it shouldn't be but it is and is often the case with all subjectively judged sports.

Just be grateful it's not 6.0 anymore.

 

[Georgya]

Such a sweet moment between Daniil and Anna https://vk.com/eteritutberidze?w=wall-97272391_185716

Followed by the most russian comment I could possibly find on the internet (with the help of google translate) - "Now with peace of mind I’m going to cook borsch!������" wrote a girl named Olga

 

[Mishaminion]

I should have been more clear and specifically included my feelings about Anna's PCS scores in my response. Honestly, I thought I had said enough about that and didn't want to keep going on about it. The horse is not just dead, it's decomposing. But for the record -

Some of the scores Anna received from the judges at Lombardia in comparison with her closest competitor seemed unfair to me.

In this case it appeared to me that the judges were deliberately placing her at a disadvantage to another more experienced senior skater. Since they are both skating for Russia it was not a question of biased national judging but something else altogether. And it wasn't one single judge, it was several of them.

So, what was it? Anna's bad day? Or a consensus among the judges about what scores certain skaters would receive provided they skated their programs cleanly and executed their tech content? Or maybe just a nod to tradition - you just got here, wait your turn for the big numbers.

The definition of conspiracy is a secret plan by a group to do something unlawful or harmful.

It's not exactly an assassination but it could arguably be considered harmful to the sport. Even though it has been going on in this sport since the beginning of time and will probably continue to go on until the end of it. In the grand scheme of things it isn't that big of a deal. Just annoying.

Fortunately we have these threads to vent about the things we find annoying in skating competitions! For some people it's pointed toes and posture. For some it's flutzes. For me it's blatantly biased scoring! Thank you for coming to my TED Talk!

By conspiracy you are suggesting this particular group of judges agreed to lowball Anna specifically, in favour of Liza... because?
For &$#@s and giggles?

 

[SkateSkates]

I’m sure Liza could do a 2A-Eu-3S in place of her 2A-3T-2T and switch out the 3Lz-2A SEQ with a 3Lz-3T. I hope they are working on this because her layout cost her this event.