Some other day, not today.
2019-20 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating
- Thread starter Spirals for Miles
- Start date
Some other day, not today.
It's so funny that yesterday everyone here was so ready to riot against the judges of Lombardia Trophy because Anna was supposedly underscored while today everyone is cool with it despite Liza was in fact underscored.
PCS got lower by 4 points compared to last year, 4 points that ironically, would have made the difference to win here.
http://www.fisg.it/upload/result/4802/CSITA2018_Ladies_FS_Scores.pdf
http://www.fisg.it/upload/result/5020/CSITA2019_Ladies_FS_Scores.pdf
Beyond that GOE went back to Russian Nationals nonsense, after a controversial but reasonable judging in the SP, so Anna gets higher GOE despite the quality is weaker.
Case in point
Elizaveta's 3ltz in the second half +1.18 GOE
Anna's 3ltz in the second half + 1.42 GOE.
Mishin will probably complain again about nonsensical use of GOE (after the iconic +3 for Evgenia's terrible 2a at the Olympics)
PCS got lower by 4 points compared to last year, 4 points that ironically, would have made the difference to win here.
http://www.fisg.it/upload/result/4802/CSITA2018_Ladies_FS_Scores.pdf
http://www.fisg.it/upload/result/5020/CSITA2019_Ladies_FS_Scores.pdf
Beyond that GOE went back to Russian Nationals nonsense, after a controversial but reasonable judging in the SP, so Anna gets higher GOE despite the quality is weaker.
Case in point
Elizaveta's 3ltz in the second half +1.18 GOE
Anna's 3ltz in the second half + 1.42 GOE.
Mishin will probably complain again about nonsensical use of GOE (after the iconic +3 for Evgenia's terrible 2a at the Olympics)
- Joined
- Dec 18, 2017
But PCS is not just interpretation..... This is like the opposite of when people were complaining about Sasha's PCS (apparently too high) because she was lacking interpretation.
- Joined
- Dec 18, 2017
Such a sweet moment between Daniil and Anna https://vk.com/eteritutberidze?w=wall-97272391_185716
Followed by the most russian comment I could possibly find on the internet (with the help of google translate) - "Now with peace of mind I’m going to cook borsch!������" wrote a girl named Olga
- Joined
- Feb 12, 2014
Deservedly so I think, the layout is a bit of a mess, lack of transitions, minimal choreography and even her appearance let her down. She looked like she was dressed for a day at an office!
I'm the first to admit that Liza's programs are whatever, but yesterday everyone here cried for pages about inconsistent PCS and now that it is inconsistent but for Liza we are all cool with it. It's just funny how judging becomes horrible only when you feel your favourite gets penalized, but you (not you in particular) defend it as soon as it is no longer a problem for your fav (but it is still for someone else)
I updated the post which what to me was the bigger problem here: GOE.
In the SP, the use of GOE for jumps rewarded the quality of the element, in the free that disappeared.
- Joined
- Feb 25, 2014
Liza's programs are worse than her programs last year. She isn't entitled to the same PCS as last year for worse programs.
Same goes to Anna Shcherbakova tho.
- Joined
- Feb 25, 2014
I just don't see how one can look at those two skates and call them of comparable composition and quality. I'm not saying Anna's program was perfect, but this is a rank order problem. The deficiencies of her program were far less than those of Liza's in terms of PCS.
Well in the SP judges did prefer Elizaveta's SP over Anna's, maybe they don't like Anna short program (i like it but it's understandable: music sparse, theme a little inappropriate for a 15 years old)
- Joined
- Jan 5, 2019
Russia's road to JGPF
ISU's inofficial ranking list has been updated: http://www.isuresults.com/events/jgp2019/jgpsladies.htm
Is it correct?
What are your ideas over the remaining 3x2 assignments?
Sinitsyna and Usachyova are still very much in the race to earn a start in JGPF.
Sinitsyna and Usachova will probably make it with Silvers and good scores, though Gold in their stages is not impossible.
Vasil'yeva and Tarakanova next week in Gdansk will need a Gold to get the 26 points of last year's cutoff Otherwise one of them best substituted with Frolova?? Frolova's chances of winning Silver there??
Tarusina, and Kanysheva, are most likely out of the race. Unless Kanysheva is completely healthy, will they risk her for a chance at SB in Gdansk?
ISU's inofficial ranking list has been updated: http://www.isuresults.com/events/jgp2019/jgpsladies.htm
Is it correct?
What are your ideas over the remaining 3x2 assignments?
Sinitsyna and Usachyova are still very much in the race to earn a start in JGPF.
Sinitsyna and Usachova will probably make it with Silvers and good scores, though Gold in their stages is not impossible.
Vasil'yeva and Tarakanova next week in Gdansk will need a Gold to get the 26 points of last year's cutoff Otherwise one of them best substituted with Frolova?? Frolova's chances of winning Silver there??
Tarusina, and Kanysheva, are most likely out of the race. Unless Kanysheva is completely healthy, will they risk her for a chance at SB in Gdansk?
- Joined
- Oct 20, 2017
For skating skills they gave Liza 8.05 vs Anna's 8.00 and for transitions 7.70 vs Anna's 7.80. And you talk about underscoring Tuktamysheva??
- Joined
- Feb 12, 2014
It has been explained to you that Liza's program this year isn't as worthy of the same PCS. Are you suggesting it should be automatically given the same despite being an even more choreographically empty program that needs a hell of a lot of work?
As for GOE, Anna's difficult transitions do make a difference. Liza does have the better 3LZ if you take only the pure jumping element of it but Anna does not telegraph, her transitions and their difficulty are a factor in the GOE.
- Joined
- Dec 18, 2017
Going back to Ksenia's SP. I was listening to the song because I really liked it, and was curious what it means so I translated it. It's essentially about a girl commiting suicide by drowning in the sea. And I know it's kinda morbid, especially for a 15 year old, but I thought the whole program is so nicely packaged to go with the theme. It goes down to her dress: you can see the foam of the water, the waves, and her movements make more sense to me now.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZsw4B9XHCo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZsw4B9XHCo
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- Joined
- Jan 5, 2019
It's best if judges stayed well away from 'appropriateness' of themes and images. Seniors are seniors, there is no such thing as 'theme ratings' in the ISU rules.
It's the objective artistry that matters, and in this I see no reason to deduct Anna, none at all!
Nor Kseniya in this case. In a sense I am pleased the choreographers stage a mature theme for their young senior skaters. Anna has watched the movie, Kseniya must have read the poems, discussed them with her trainer and choreographer and committed herself to convey the staged image in the proper way as best as she can.
Bubbly and bouncy but otherwise childish and empty routines are IMO best left to mid range skaters like Kurakova or Samodurova.
And while on this matter, where did the Strange Fruit routine go? Wasn't it supposed to be performed at this stage? The inappropriateness of that music choice is of a whole different order.
Oh no i'm just using the same exact logic you all used yesterday, which i don't agree.
Anna's transitions into her last 3ltz are nothing all that worthy, the only thing she had over Liza's 3ltz was more speed, but the jumps itself was weaker.
- Joined
- Dec 22, 2018
So it turns out that Anna won not because the judges came to their senses, but because Liza shot herself in the foot with the jump layout (or Mishin did, to be more precise). With the advantage after the SP yesterday, the minor difference in PCS today, and three 3As vs 1 quad, Liza would have won with better layout. At the end, Anna won with a 10-point advantage in tech.
Now that I am happy that the judges didn’t crush Anna’s spirit, I am starting to worry about Liza. What is Mishin thinking?! I have already accepted that he doesn’t believe in transitions, that music and choreo are treated as unimportant background, but wasting hard-earned points due to poor jump layout is inexcusable. It is obvious that Liza is working hard, she is in excellent shape and very ambitious. She does need better and smarter support from her team, because she doesn’t have any time to waste.
Now that I am happy that the judges didn’t crush Anna’s spirit, I am starting to worry about Liza. What is Mishin thinking?! I have already accepted that he doesn’t believe in transitions, that music and choreo are treated as unimportant background, but wasting hard-earned points due to poor jump layout is inexcusable. It is obvious that Liza is working hard, she is in excellent shape and very ambitious. She does need better and smarter support from her team, because she doesn’t have any time to waste.
if you say "Liza got lower PCS because they don't like her free skate" looking at the scores you could say the exact same for Anna's SP.
That was the point of that post above.
And BTW there are reasons to prefer Liza's SP over Anna's SP so it wasn't even all that unreasonable.
In general i find the theme just okay (Perfume is not a movie i'd personally ever recommend for a program of a 15 years old), but other times i found programs or music that try to seduce someone or revealing costumes for a 15 years old extremely inappropriate and worthy of deductions.
Anna's new programs show her maturity and wide range of musicality better.
