This is debatable. From my PoV the prettiest one is Tuktamisheva
2020-21 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating
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This is debatable. From my PoV the prettiest one is Tuktamisheva
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It's hard to reply and not to start just one more battle over the opinion "did Zhenya do well to move" or "is she better now than she wasn't". Like Sasha moved, Aliona moved and the wounds are still fresh and now going back to Zhenya once again? It's the mine field
I will try to reply for myself and my opinion. Starting with Zhenya. Her beginnings with Orser were truly rough and it would make no sense to deny it, that time or now. Then she became world bronze medalist. As for the standings, it was a satisfaction, definitely, not for everyone it was satisfaction in regard of style and skating. There are those who say her skating wasn't as good as she was before and there are those who find her skating more entertaining, artistic etc. It's not a secret that those two camps prefer different things in skating and above all different persons (Eteri/Orser or generally north american style of skating). As for me, my favourite programs of her still remain 2015/16 season FS and 2016/17 season SP. From her new programs I liked Tosca the most, her previous SP I didn't like. I'm indifferent about 2018/19 FS (partially because Tango is not my favourite tune), but I was also more or less indifferent about 2016/17 FS (though in that year's competition it was still one of the best).
But people can argue about those things, focusing on points or artistry, but there is one more thing to consider. Did the transfer fulfilled Zhenya's own expectations? I can guess she truly liked the new environment but let's face it, one of the main motives was truly to stay competitive in the future and I don't think that particularly this goal was completely fulfilled. Of course we don't have an alternative reality at our disposal where she would stay with Eteri and we could compare how her career would look like in that case.
Now as for Aliona and Sasha. Well, whatever people (incl. me, I would not deny it) objected about Znenya's transfer, Orser was and is still one of the icons of figure skating, some consider him the GOAT among the coaches and were pretty outraged it wasn't him who got the FS award.So there was some guarantee he is competent to train a star like Zhenya. On the other hand, and I know many will disagree now, Plushy, with Rozanov or without, is nobody as a coach. Sounds harsh but if you try to be objective you should admit this to yourself. It's too much to lose with very little in return. Yes, there was a time when Eteri was nobody as a coach, but at that time anyone who would come to FFKKR and said "let's give her two of our most promising hopes for medals at the highest competitions to train", he would be laughed and ridiculed. Something like that wasn't possible till Eteri built her emprire with her bare hands. Plushy has a name as a skater, contacts and money, but nothing of it makes him a coach. His excessively self-confident claims do not help to improve his reputation.
From the perspective of coaching, it's like taking the latest clerk and make him a CEO. Maybe he will surprise us, but I think one should first prove himself and only then he should be entrusted to take care about the values, not the other way around. As for the girls, yes, if the results will be unsatisfying, I will say that, I don't see a reason why being correct in such case, because it would just prove it was a very bad decision. If the results will be good, that is a question. Many people will be glad that the chance for medals weren't thrown out of the window. I am quite confident that programs could be good, Nastya's case shows Plushy can at least obtain good choreos, but that's not everything. The other thing is working on techique and maybe even more importantly working with the psychics of the skaters. We know that from this perspective Eteri is able to prepare skaters even in the most difficult situations. How many people expected Alina's meltdown before 2019 Worlds, many people didn't expect Kamila will win JGPF just three weeks in trainings after a serious injury and without quads against Alysa or that even Daria would become so consistent throughout the season that she will become world junior silver medalist. In this regard I have much stronger doubts about Plushy's team than with the technique itself.
So, that's my view, I hope I answered fully, I've written that while watching one old, naive but charming western in a way.
This is again : How great Eterei is but Plushenko is nothing and Rozanov is nothing on more polite way even if Sasha and Alyona will have a great season.
-When Eteri was nobody as a coach she was nobody as a skater, too. Plus she was a dancer but Plushenko is the most succesful figure skater ever who was trained by one of the best coaches in the world for 20 years. Mishin built his method with Plush thus he perfectly knows everything about the jumps. Is this nothing compared to Eteri's achievement? I know that is not sure a great skater will be great coach but probably he is confident he knows himself he knows his knowledge. He is a talented man in general and he is brave enough to face the toughest challenges! ( One of the reasons why he has so many fans!) This is / was/ will be Plushenko.
For the fans there are many little informations for example in last year Plushenko restored Kovtun's 3A for a very short time. Yes, Plush has everything but he had no time enough to show himself as a coach. And because he didn't want to do it to this time. So it is too early to predict anything.
Maybe Alyona is a ready-made skater and Sasha also has many good features as a skater but that is stupid all of them achievements came from Eteri's team in the future. With this logic Yagudin won the OG gold because of Mishin's coaching solely. There are 2 years to Beijing it's enough time to say the new coaching team's succes are the good results based on all of the previous coaches's work. As in all of the other skater's case.
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Has anything of note happened in the past few hours? I keep coming back to the forum, seeing new pages, but then discover there’s nothing new. Does anyone have any real news?
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- Mar 16, 2019
No, not really. We’re just desperately rehashing things from 6 years ago.
This is again : How great Eterei is but Plushenko is nothing and Rozanov is nothing on more polite way even if Sasha and Alyona will have a great season.
-When Eteri was nobody as a coach she was nobody as a skater, too. Plus she was a dancer but Plushenko is the most succesful figure skater ever who was trained by one of the best coaches in the world for 20 years. Mishin built his method with Plush thus he perfectly knows everything about the jumps. Is this nothing compared to Eteri's achievement? I know that is not sure a great skater will be great coach but probably he is confident he knows himself he knows his knowledge. He is a talented man in general and he is brave enough to face the toughest challenges! ( One of the reasons why he has so many fans!) This is / was/ will be Plushenko.
For the fans there are many little informations for example in last year Plushenko restored Kovtun's 3A for a very short time. Yes, Plush has everything but he had no time enough to show himself as a coach. And because he didn't want to do it to this time. So it is too early to predict anything.
Maybe Alyona is a ready-made skater and Sasha also has many good features as a skater but that is stupid all of them achievements came from Eteri's team in the future. With this logic Yagudin won the OG gold because of Mishin's coaching solely. There are 2 years to Beijing it's enough time to say the new coaching team's succes are the good results based on all of the previous coaches's work. As in all of the other skater's case.
Like Eteri as a person or hate her, but as for the coaching she is Everest while in comparison Plushy as a coach is that mound from the movie "The Englishman Who Went Up a Hill But Came Down a Mountain" in this moment. Being succesful athlete doesn't make you a succesful coach trhoughout the whole sport. There are such cases but many succesful athletes became mediocre coaches and unknown athletes became succesful coaches. Though the main and only important thing now is that you can't claim Plushy is proven reliable coach now to whom should be entrusted such important athletes. If there would be long practise behind him that would show him as a coach, who can truly improve skaters abilities not just to skate in training, but also stand in competitions, OK (and no, one Titova in the novice championships is not a proof). But there is nothing so far even if his (and Rozanov's) fangirls chose to ignore this simple fact. Good driver is not authomatically a good driving instructor. And Plushy's self confidence also is not a qualification for such role.
One thing is to predict Plushy's future coaching career, the other one is his coaching career now does not entitle to put him into the role he is now. It's too risky.
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It's interesting to me that for many posters the desire to hate on Eteri and find anything possible on earth to criticize her is so strong, that barely anyone seems to acknowledge that in this case it's perfectly understandable for her to be pissed/offended.
Independently of if the way she reacted to it on social media is appropriate or not, please imagine your star student going with you to training camp, using up your time, the time of your tech specialist and most importantly Daniil who is one person that has to choreograph for all the people in that group.
Lets Daniil waste his time on her, giving her 2 complete programs, as the first one in the group to receive them.
Then one day stop you in the hallway in nearly August and say "I'm leaving. And I'm not only leaving, I'm going to Plushenko, the guy that trashed you and our school publicly and your biggest rival. And I decided that back in May."
Even if small things in this turn out to be not exactly like we think so far, the grand scheme remains.
I'm not blaming Alena for playing the game or for anything else and she's my favorite skater. But I totally can put myself in Eteri's shoes here.
Independently of if the way she reacted to it on social media is appropriate or not, please imagine your star student going with you to training camp, using up your time, the time of your tech specialist and most importantly Daniil who is one person that has to choreograph for all the people in that group.
Lets Daniil waste his time on her, giving her 2 complete programs, as the first one in the group to receive them.
Then one day stop you in the hallway in nearly August and say "I'm leaving. And I'm not only leaving, I'm going to Plushenko, the guy that trashed you and our school publicly and your biggest rival. And I decided that back in May."
Even if small things in this turn out to be not exactly like we think so far, the grand scheme remains.
I'm not blaming Alena for playing the game or for anything else and she's my favorite skater. But I totally can put myself in Eteri's shoes here.
No mention of Rozanov in the new Trusova documentary from Match tv. It is all Plyushchenko, Plyushchenko and more Plyushchenko
No new jumps, i was waiting for the 4Lo, but i guess we have to wait for an actual competition. I expect no less than 5 quads and at least one trixel
No new jumps, i was waiting for the 4Lo, but i guess we have to wait for an actual competition. I expect no less than 5 quads and at least one trixel
Absolutely. People should remember, that Eteri's reaction to Sasha's leave was quite moderate (only Zheleznyakov made some comments that were unnecessary). She was sad (completely understandably, just like it is understandable Danny G was sad in his video), but she didn't rant. Again, it's mostly about the way how people leave than the fact itself they leave. Spending two months on work with someone that just turns out to be wasting of time that could be used other way is harsh and Aliona, even in her 16 (going on 17
) must be fully aware of this. Of course there could be situations where such moves would be fully understandable (some insurmountable obstacle, severe worsening of relations from the reason she didn't cause). But I disagree that at any moment skater can move without any conditions and consequences.I see people in Russia in comments are starting to demand there should be "terms of contracts" that would among else regulate the terms on which the skater can change the coach or team. That is normal in many sports and I think it would be useful because it would protect both sides, the skater and the coach.
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Oh I can too, if the story is taken at face value, but I think the issue that you’re seeing is that a lot of people don’t believe every word of that story as presented, as we are only hearing one side of the story. There is a bit of a pattern and a “boy who cried wolf” history with this group when people leave. Personally I’m having a hard time believing Alyona would intentionally waste her OWN time for two months much less Eteri/Daniils, and her parents singed off on her doing so? If I were her parents I would want my child with her new coach when training resumed after the break. Makes absolutely no sense they’d send her to Novogorsk to get programs she isn’t keeping.
And maybe she did say “I decided back in May” as an angsty teen would but that doesn’t necessarily mean it is true, if just means a kid was being dramatic. I know teens and they say things they don’t mean/aren’t true all the time to upset adults.
More likely she got an offer back in May (that Plushy denied but I trust no one here, they’re all playing games, did he personally call her maybe not but an associate may have), parents said well Sasha just left that means more time for you - let’s see how it goes at Novogorsk, it did not go well, they reconsider around mid July and decide then to switch, Alyona exaggerates the May offer as the decision in anger.
Assuming it was not true that Alyona and her parents decided this back in May (either because Alyona exaggerated or Eteri did) which is far more likely in my opinion, it raises the possibility that some part of the training became unsustainable for Alyona and Eteri was unwilling to work around it, or even something worse on Eteri’s end. Thus there would be no reason to feel sorry for her and more reason to feel sorry for Alyona. I think this belief has a lot to do with the comments you’re seeing.
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She can be shocked or even feel betrayed but that is no reason to drag the sakter openly in her post withprivate things which we actually dont even know if they are true or not. And lets be clear eteri posted this after knwoing about alyonas decision for 2 weeks, so its not an emotional thing that she just heard it and was so emotional she put it up on instagramm, no this was a planned post because daniil said that they found out 2 weeks now almost 3 weeks ago.
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Sasha's documentary:
Apparently Sasha said that Eteri and Co were trying to limit the amount of quads Sasha was doing, while Sasha wanted to go for more quads. So seems like this was the main conflict between them.
Sasha wanted to do more and more quads in practice and competitions, they tried to rein her in.
And then when they went for 3 quads at Euros it didn’t work out...
But then Sasha was on holiday before Europeans, and it would’ve been better if they sticked to the same content throughout the year, imo.
At GPF Sasha insisted to go for 3A and 5 quads, then at Rusnats coaches persuaded her to tone it down, she agreed only because they made an argument that for selection to Euros purposes it makes sense to go safe. At Euros coaches again insisted on having less quads and no 3A, but go clean instead, and Sasha didn’t like the idea of going back to no 3A and 3 quads.
So I’d say she felt like she was being held back, because they discouraged that amount of quads?
She repeated her quote from the trailer “I always wanted to jump, and they always stopped me. It’s not the first year this was happening”.
Sasha also mentions she herself approached Eteri to go for quads in 2017. Eteri first said “no”, next time Sasha asked Eteri suggested trying 3A first, they tried it, then Sasha asked again to go for quads and they did that time.
I know Sasha loves jumping a lot, this docu just showed that she’s really passionate about jumping and has fun when she jumps. It matters a lot to her, way more than I used to think before.
TBH, this isn't shocking, we've heard about this before.
If she went to Plushenko, just so no one would stop her from jumping as much as she wants - I'm not sure this is an ideal scenario for Sasha's future.
Apparently Sasha said that Eteri and Co were trying to limit the amount of quads Sasha was doing, while Sasha wanted to go for more quads. So seems like this was the main conflict between them.
Sasha wanted to do more and more quads in practice and competitions, they tried to rein her in.
And then when they went for 3 quads at Euros it didn’t work out...
But then Sasha was on holiday before Europeans, and it would’ve been better if they sticked to the same content throughout the year, imo.
At GPF Sasha insisted to go for 3A and 5 quads, then at Rusnats coaches persuaded her to tone it down, she agreed only because they made an argument that for selection to Euros purposes it makes sense to go safe. At Euros coaches again insisted on having less quads and no 3A, but go clean instead, and Sasha didn’t like the idea of going back to no 3A and 3 quads.
So I’d say she felt like she was being held back, because they discouraged that amount of quads?
She repeated her quote from the trailer “I always wanted to jump, and they always stopped me. It’s not the first year this was happening”.
Sasha also mentions she herself approached Eteri to go for quads in 2017. Eteri first said “no”, next time Sasha asked Eteri suggested trying 3A first, they tried it, then Sasha asked again to go for quads and they did that time.
I know Sasha loves jumping a lot, this docu just showed that she’s really passionate about jumping and has fun when she jumps. It matters a lot to her, way more than I used to think before.
TBH, this isn't shocking, we've heard about this before.
If she went to Plushenko, just so no one would stop her from jumping as much as she wants - I'm not sure this is an ideal scenario for Sasha's future.
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- Nov 12, 2013
So... where would you have Trusova and Kostornaya go if you don't trust Phlushenko? Is there any coach in Russia at the moment that's a better choice than him, and doesn't already have star students like Mishin does? Clearly for some reason, the two girls felt they could no longer stay in Tutberidze's group. Where else should they turn to, in your opinion?
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- Mar 16, 2019
I’d say there are tons of good coaches in Russia alone with an impressive track record. Davydov is doing an amazing job with Sofia S.
Panova can help them in several areas too, and she has her own style/taste in choreography.
Just what nussnacker said. Flanker likes nussnacker :thumbsup:
yess, honestly can’t believe some people are defending her that post was absolutely unprofessional it was horrible she could’ve just said aliona is leaving that’s it but she will keep doing the same everytime a skater leaves her lol
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I’m not a fan of this from either the skater or coaches perspective. What if a skater becomes disruptive to a group or if a coach becomes abusive or neglectful towards a skater. Like if a coach begins to give up on a skater?? What’s to prevent them from completely ignoring them for the remainder of the contract potentially causing harm or loss of motivation.
A good coach who harbors a strong relationship with a student shouldn’t need a contract just to keep the student around. Then again I’ve always felt the time table rules that the federation harbors over skaters on coaching changes was a completely unnecessary power.
Such situations can happen in other sports where this is used and also everywhere else, work, relations. There are mechanisms how to deal with it that can be contained in the agreement like terminating the agreement in the cases 1., 2. ... X. abusive behaviour etc. (it's also part of why I say "it would protect both sides, the skater and the coach"), it's nothing new, no need to reinvent the wheel.
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I agree here because I can kinda put myself in both of their shoes TBH and I’m not really outraged, excited, or sad. Just curious to see what’s comes next for both.
Once again, 16 years old can have a job. And they sign endorsement contracts, so why not contracts about their main activity (of course with the participation of legal representative).
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