2024 World Championships Men's Free Skate

[TontoK]

The opposite is also true. Fans of newcomers diss the more established skaters, sometimes to the point of wishing they will retire etc.. or calling them boring or old or no longer competitive enough etc.

I think however that some fans need to be able to hear the opinion of others if they gather on a skating forum. We all have a variety of opinions on different skaters, and sometimes, our perception also evolves. It is also not white and black. I praised a lot of skaters from worlds and also noted what I didn't like from their performances. Nuance is important for me. Even with my ultimate favourites, I will find points they need to work on. I am not the kind of fan who turns a blind eye when I develop interest for a skater. Some fans could acknowledge that .constructive criticism doesn't equate to ill intent and just let it go.

Your points are valid and noted. But I never said that this resistance was universal among all fans, only that it existed. I stand by that.

I try not to get overly invested in any skater - and after all these years I'm puzzled by those who do. I observe and note weaknesses. I celebrate strengths. I look forward to improvements. I try to enjoy what's put before me. I try to remain open to enjoying new talents, and I mostly define talent as that which entertains me. Several of my favorites will probably never be top-level (Hello, Tiger Dude!) but I don't care. Right now, I enjoy all the men on the podium, but that will change the instant I'm not entertained. I frequently hunt videos of skaters who never won a major title, and there are Olympic champions I wouldn't cross the street to see.

My favor Is temporary and fickle. Entertain me, and I'm on board. Stop doing that, and I'm off the train.

 

[4everchan]

Your points are valid and noted. But I never said that this resistance was universal among all fans, only that it existed. I stand by that.

I try not to get overly invested in any skater - and after all these years I'm puzzled by those who do. I observe and note weaknesses. I celebrate strengths. I look forward to improvements. I try to enjoy what's put before me. I try to remain open to enjoying new talents, and I mostly define talent as that which entertains me. Several of my favorites will probably never be top-level (Hello, Tiger Dude!) but I don't care. Right now, I enjoy all the men on the podium, but that will change the instant I'm not entertained. I frequently hunt videos of skaters who never won a major title, and there are Olympic champions I wouldn't cross the street to see.

My favor Is temporary and fickle. Entertain me, and I'm on board. Stop doing that, and I'm off the train.

yup. i get what you're saying.. at this point, i like SO many skaters i am just cheering for good performances and there were many this week!

 

[midori green]

Genetics do play a role. There are always statistical outliers.

Another example: Male skaters with bigger butts and long legs are weaker quad jumpers, this is why this body type is found in pair skating more often. Ilia has long legs and no butt at all. This is why he can rotate so fast and efficiently, but doesn't have the best glide. The same principle applies to Nikolaj Memola. He can jump because of his thin long legs and the missing butt, but his SS are weaker. Patrick Chan is taller than Shoma or Yuma, but he has relatively short (strong) legs in contrast to his upper body. This is what counts.

My husband and I have made a game of knowing which skaters will have better skating skills based on their butts. Deeper knee bend (especially with one-foot skating) will build those muscle groups more. But a butt that sticks out more will make rotation more difficult from a physics standpoint...definitely not impossible, though. Some is genetics, and some is training. Do stronger/bigger butt muscles lead to better knee bend, or does better knee bend lead to stronger/bigger butt muscles? Probably both. All this to say, I definitely agree that the skaters with "missing butts" tend to rotate easier but be weaker at skating skills.

 

[Arigato]

I'd like to see Raf work more with Selevko. He needs more/better coaching and has potential. You can see it in his free.

 

[Kris135]

The truth is, many fans can’t digest Ilia’s, uniqueness and superiority. I watched again the video closely, and I see great edges. I don’t know if he has worked with a specialist, but I see a major improvement. The kid is tall he can’t help it. Give him a year to find his body. You all generously gave a loooot of time to other skates to improve.

Also I think Ilia may not be done with his growth yet either. I think many of his current problems is because he is growing and hopefully he going to his final growth spurt where he will finally reach his adult height. He is close to 6ft now so with this final boost he will be going over 6ft. Very few ever reach that height and almost no none of them are in the men singles discipline. I agree give him some time to adjust to his height. He does have good basic skating skills he just needs the time to refine them without having to constantly adjust them to accamadate his growth.He is good with jumping but in next couple years the artistic aspect will get better as he grows up and matures and finds his own style that works for him because he wants to get better in all aspects of his skating so just wait by the time we get to 2026 he may become the complete package that everyone wants do just be a little patient for that to happen.

 

[Skater Boy]

I am just caught up with worlds. I am happy for Ilia and what a tech masterpiece. ravo Yuma was okay too and ravo to Adam for bringing it. What a comeback but then again that says quads can overcome it all.

Still Jason Brown is so lovely to watch. Shomo was a bit sad to watch like maybe he is no longer so invested. Camden was a huge disappointment - not sure he was really prepared for some reason. TOo much school? Muira was only okay. Cha and Jin were a disppointed. And Canada really did not put up much of a fight for two spots. Quads is what it i about. Pcs can be overcome easily by a quad.

I hope Ilia can work on his program and style. I know he is trying. I do think Nathan could beat Ilia with fewer quads but I am not sure he will have the ammunition if he comes back. Brown is still relevant and I am glad.

 

[Janice4th]

Yes. To think he's being scored anywhere near Yuma is ludicrous. They skate nothing alike.

No, they don’t, but they don’t have to to have similar points.

 

[SXTN]

When the interviewer asked Ilia what was next : quints? or whatever... I wish he had said : at this point, I need to develop my overall skating.. and not " there will be some new tricks next year.. surprises..." Seriously, Ilia's jumps are exciting. His overall skating is competent but bland. He got 9s for PCS.... the best skaters in that department didn't get much higher than that. To me, that is not ideal : I don't think it changes much to give him 8 or even 8.5 in terms of results but it would change the message. I just wish Ilia had emphasized the need to polish other aspects of his skating.

It doesn't really make sense because in sports you want to win titles. Ilia wins titles because of his never seen before technical ability so why would he go home and work on his overall skating if he already receives 9's? The benefit from working on his skating skills is relatively small compared to the massive work he would have to put in given his physical disadvantage over someone like Shoma for instance. In my opinion he righfully focused on the performance aspect of his component scores. Vice versa one could also argue that Shoma needs to rework his jumping technique which is one of the worst, especially his right foot toe jumps. But again, why should he? He gets the GOE anyway. There is no perfect skater and at some point you have to make decisions and focus on areas you are good at, Jason Brown also comes to mind. From shoulders to feet Yuma's performance was outstanding, but he doesn't have the "face". But it is true that Ilia's SS are still lacking and it is ok that you don't like his skating because of that.

 

[lariko]

We watched the gala last night before going to bed and I was really excited that Ilya showed the edgy side of him there.

personally, I think skaters should be pragmatic and work on what brings the biggest bang for the buck. Ilya is progressing in terms of captivating audience rather than in glide, so I think that's his thing. Kagiyama already cornered the field of gliding and since Kagiyama can't be exciting artistically no matter what he does and both lack outstanding natural musicality, let Kagiyama glide and let Ilya perform. It will make for many exciting competitions.

 

[4everchan]

We watched the gala last night before going to bed and I was really excited that Ilya showed the edgy side of him there.

personally, I think skaters should be pragmatic and work on what brings the biggest bang for the buck. Ilya is progressing in terms of captivating audience rather than in glide, so I think that's his thing.

that's fair and I agree with that but to me, it's a problem in the scoring system. It rewards way too much the big tricks compared to the overall skating

Kagiyama already cornered the field of gliding and since Kagiyama can't be exciting artistically no matter what he does and both lack outstanding natural musicality, let Kagiyama glide and let Ilya perform. It will make for many exciting competitions.

This, i cannot agree with. Yuma is extremely musical. His gala number showed that. Some skaters show their musicality with arms and giving face. Yuma, and Shoma for instance, embody the musical phrase with from head to toe. Full body movements in communion with the music. It was extremely apparent in Yuma's gala program. I was mesmerized at how well he was able to skate emotionally to this big operatic piece. It's a style of emotional portraying in skating which I appreciate way more than gimmicks.

 

[Demandred]

I have no problem at all with skaters deciding to focus on the jumps and mostly ignoring the more artistic part of the sport, but the judging should reflect this, as it is supposed to according to the ISU's own rules. The very best jumpers shouldn't get high 8s or even 9s for PCS just because they are the top jumpers if the rest of their programs don't merit such scores but it keeps happening.

 

[JeanA]

I have no problem at all with skaters deciding to focus on the jumps and mostly ignoring the more artistic part of the sport, but the judging should reflect this, as it is supposed to according to the ISU's own rules. The very best jumpers shouldn't get high 8s or even 9s for PCS just because they are the top jumpers if the rest of their programs don't merit such scores but it keeps happening.

I've resigned myself to knowing that's how it is and always will be. Plushenko also got outrageous second marks and I had to accept it. I just focused on their entertainment/performance aspects, and when I did that I wasn't as bothered by some of the glaring deficiencies. It's so rare for a Yuzu or Yuma or Chan who has/had it all. I enjoy their performances in a different way. I see near perfection in their skating. But ice skating is a sport after all, and sometimes you just have to accept that athleticism many/most times will trump artistic preferences. It always makes for a good debate though, that's for sure.

 

[TT_Fin]

that's fair and I agree with that but to me, it's a problem in the scoring system. It rewards way too much the big tricks compared to the overall skating

This, i cannot agree with. Yuma is extremely musical. His gala number showed that. Some skaters show their musicality with arms and giving face. Yuma, and Shoma for instance, embody the musical phrase with from head to toe. Full body movements in communion with the music. It was extremely apparent in Yuma's gala program. I was mesmerized at how well he was able to skate emotionally to this big operatic piece. It's a style of emotional portraying in skating which I appreciate way more than gimmicks.

I have written this about ten times in competition thread, but my husbands favourite sentence is to ask if there are bugs on the ice because skaters wave their hands all the time, when he occasionally comes to watch with me. This time when Yuma skated I asked him to come see, now there are no bugs. Shoma is a skater whose body control he already knew.

 

[Arigato]

I have no problem at all with skaters deciding to focus on the jumps and mostly ignoring the more artistic part of the sport, but the judging should reflect this, as it is supposed to according to the ISU's own rules. The very best jumpers shouldn't get high 8s or even 9s for PCS just because they are the top jumpers if the rest of their programs don't merit such scores but it keeps happening.

Which is what my point was when contrasting Yuma and Ilia's skating.

 

[Janice4th]

It doesn't really make sense because in sports you want to win titles. Ilia wins titles because of his never seen before technical ability so why would he go home and work on his overall skating if he already receives 9's? The benefit from working on his skating skills is relatively small compared to the massive work he would have to put in given his physical disadvantage over someone like Shoma for instance. In my opinion he righfully focused on the performance aspect of his component scores. Vice versa one could also argue that Shoma needs to rework his jumping technique which is one of the worst, especially his right foot toe jumps. But again, why should he? He gets the GOE anyway. There is no perfect skater and at some point you have to make decisions and focus on areas you are good at, Jason Brown also comes to mind. From shoulders to feet Yuma's performance was outstanding, but he doesn't have the "face". But it is true that Ilia's SS are still lacking and it is ok that you don't like his skating because of that.

Except Ilia is working on those aspects, and they have improved. I really enjoyed his SP live. I didn’t get to see him skate his program at Nationals (timing issue on flights).

 

[JeanA]

Except Ilia is working on those aspects, and they have improved. I really enjoyed his SP live. I didn’t get to see him skate his program at Nationals (timing issue on flights).

He definitely has improved. He's putting MITF like spread eagles and ina bauers in when he can. He's trying to improve. It's nice to see.

 

[Jumping_Bean]

He is close to 6ft now

Is he really? Roman is supposedly just over 6 ft and he looks significantly taller next to Kevin Aymoz (5'3'') or even Keegan Messing (5'5'') than Ilia does next to Yuma Kagiyama (5'3'')
Or maybe we just have different definitions of "close to"

 

[skatesofgold]

Is he really? Roman is supposedly just over 6 ft and he looks significantly taller next to Kevin Aymoz (5'3'') or even Keegan Messing (5'5'') than Ilia does next to Yuma Kagiyama (5'3'')

Well, the last time his ISU bio was updated, Ilia was 5 feet 8 1/2 inches. I suppose he could be 5'10" by now, but it's hard to say because I always see skaters with skates on. Usually, men only grow a little bit after 18, let alone 19, so I doubt he's grown more than 2 inches.

 

[Magill]

Dtilresigned myself to knowing that's how it is and always will be. Plushenko also got outrageous second marks and I had to accept it. I just focused on their entertainment/performance aspects, and when I did that I wasn't as bothered by some of the glaring deficiencies. It's so rare for a Yuzu or Yuma or Chan who has/had it all. I enjoy their performances in a different way. I see near perfection in their skating. But ice skating is a sport after all, and sometimes you just have to accept that athleticism many/most times will trump artistic preferences. It always makes for a good debate though, that's for sure.

Well, if Yuzus, Shomas and Yumas are so rare to come by, they should be rewarded accordingly in points and their scores should be equally rare to see and difficult to achieve and not given out like candies for just jumping the jumps. Just saying

 

[lariko]

that's fair and I agree with that but to me, it's a problem in the scoring system. It rewards way too much the big tricks compared to the overall skating

This, i cannot agree with. Yuma is extremely musical. His gala number showed that. Some skaters show their musicality with arms and giving face. Yuma, and Shoma for instance, embody the musical phrase with from head to toe. Full body movements in communion with the music. It was extremely apparent in Yuma's gala program. I was mesmerized at how well he was able to skate emotionally to this big operatic piece. It's a style of emotional portraying in skating which I appreciate way more than gimmicks.

All skaters are obviously musical, but those with outstanding musiclity donn't finish their program way before the score. And he is just not artistic, he is bland. But he sure can glide and have really soft knees. So, that's great.