This turned out to be a very bad year for Alissa.

[krenseby]

I have no earthly way of knowing why they did what they did. There's no reason to idiocy, I suppose.

Someone on FS Universe suggested that Boitano might have some clout. He's remained active in the FS scene, and has been pretty vocal about the need to have a woman's champion as opposed to a little girl's champion, and how tiny tots are killing interest in the sport. I agree, and think the Boitano factor may have been an issue, although this is all just speculation at this point. They went with a young girl (Mirai) last year and that didn't pan out too well...Alissa did better than expected on the GP circuit...the judges may have been desperate for an alternative to the young 'uns, all of whom are having growing pains and technique issues. Who knows, any of these reasons could have contributed to Alissa being sent to Worlds. Why USFS would go out on such a limb in a year when Olympic spots are on the line beats me.

I could ask you the same question: Why do you think Alissa was given sky-high PCS (scores she would not have received anywhere else for such a sub-par LP), crowned National champion and sent off to Worlds when Fragility is her middle name...in a year when consistency and competitiveness are crucial at Worlds?

I know this question is not directed at me, but I want to give my two cents.

I think the score inflation has a very simple and understandable reason: A charming young lady who's been on the skating scene for years reappears and has some new tricks to show. The USFSA judges think: "How great. Let's reward her."

Basically: the judges get carried away with the rewarding thing. I say a bronze or a silver with a 4CC send-off would have been the perfect gift for Alissa.

Good news though; next in line for overly generous gifts will be our own Ms. Caroline Zhang.

I think the USFSA's opinion of her has vastly improved after 4CC and JW.

 

[ManyCairns]

It's a fact that contacting USFSA about their judging is clearly more constructive than whining about it here.

A fact?? Hardly. You have no way of knowing that a letter now to USFSA would do squat. It might, but it easily might do zero. It might also have negative effects -- one might send a letter, get no response, and see no improvement of any kind in any way, shape, or form, and end up even further depressed about the whole situation and one's powerlessness in it. Or a letter might spur USFSA, if indeed there was conscious monkeying with this year's results, to decide to give Czisny ANOTHER chance in an attempt to prove themselves right about what they did this year ("We'll show everyone, we were right all along ... ! And besides, no one can tell us what to do! Not that there was any wrongdoing anyway. And we'll prove there was no wrongdoing by showing Czisny is consistent, and we'll show she's consistent when she wins the national title twice in a row!" )

You want constructive? How's this: your so-called "whining" on this board allows some folks to vent unhealthy emotions, thus freeing them to be happier and more productive in their everyday lives.

I agree with those who've pointed out what SHOULD be obvious: a discussion forum is about DISCUSSION. This is exactly the place to offer one's subjective, objective, and otherwise (?!) thoughts on skating. If you find posts annoying, skim right over them.

Now, I do think performances at Nationals should be the ONLY determinants of the winners at Nationals -- one's potential for international results shouldn't affect one's placement at Nationals. Only how one skates on the night. I think the USFSA is going to have to separate the process for naming skaters to international competition teams from specific results at competitions, and instead look at seasons as a whole. Yes, that will open up a whole can of worms and potential for far more accusations of bias and unfairness, but maybe that's the way it's got to be.

As to the original question, to me this was clearly Czisny's best season in terms of results. However, it's certainly possible her self-esteem might have taken a beating if she assumes guilty feelings over not placing well enough, in conjunction with her teammate, to secure 3 spots for Worlds. I will be very sorry to see some deserving ladies off the team for Olys (especially if Flatt doesn't go after turning in solid performances consistently as a senior), HOWEVER, in the overall scheme of things I can't get too upset about 2 spots vs. 3.

 

[LeCygne]

Good news though; next in line for overly generous gifts will be our own Ms. Caroline Zhang.

I think the USFSA's opinion of her has vastly improved after 4CC and JW.

I certainly hope so, but I'll believe it when I see it.

 

[Tonichelle]

(KW off to clean computer screen of spewed coffee...)

I think I've figured out what to get you for Christmas (unless your bday comes sooner) - a poncho for your computer screen) it's the least I can do considering I make you spew every so often


do they even make ponchos for computers? they should!

 

[bekalc]

I want to make a comment. No I don't think Alissa tried. Alissa apparently "planned" on doing 5 triple jumps, which she didn't attempt because she doubled one. IN my opinion "trying" would have been to go for that jump. I'd rather have seen her fall attempting it, than to just attempt a half hearted 4 freakin triples.

I was going to give Alissa a break, and in someways I do. But when she makes comments like "it's out of my hands" I want to shake her. It was in her hands, she's the one who skated.. But still blame the USFSA judges most of all because they put her first.

Sigh, I love the fact that Rachael Flatt performed as well as she did. It was a great big "screw you" to the USFSA judges. I mean really what kind of message did they send her, when they said her well skated long program at Nationals was only one point better than Alissa and her 3 triples.

And it's so totally true that if Rachael or Caroline both landed only 3 clean triples, that it would not be considered a great performance from them. It would be called "meltdowns" Shouldn't their be at least form of standard for everyone?

I do think Alissa has good qualities, she's a beautiful skater. But Alissa is more of a show skater than she is a competitive skater.

 

[Bruin714]

Upon viewing the youtube video of Alyssa again, I think she did "TRY" to do a triple toe. But the way she picked into the ice didn't give her enough momentum to get three rotations, so in the air she had to settle for a double. She didn't try to do a double toe. Her take-off was wonky.

 

[TNT2012]

I still can't fanthom why Alissa would only attempt a 5-triple program. Did her original long program contain a 6-triple jump content or was she just incapable of even ATTEMPTING a 6-triple program?

 

[bekalc]

Upon viewing the youtube video of Alyssa again, I think she did "TRY" to do a triple toe. But the way she picked into the ice didn't give her enough momentum to get three rotations, so in the air she had to settle for a double. She didn't try to do a double toe. Her take-off was wonky.

Oh okay.. Why would the USFSA go with someone who only even plans on attempting 5 triples?

 

[Mathman]

I still can't fanthom why Alissa would only attempt a 5-triple program. Did her original long program contain a 6-triple jump content or was she just incapable of even ATTEMPTING a 6-triple program?

In her first competition of the season she attempted a six-triple program, including a triple toe-triple toe combination. This was not completely successful (although she won the competition.) So she scaled back to a five-triple program with a 3T+2T as a "place-holder" for the triple-triple, which she hoped to be able to work back into her program by the end of the season.

At worlds, the planned element was 3T+2T, but by missing on the first jump all she could salvage was a solo 2T.

I believe her coaches and advisors felt that it was better for her to do a simpler program jump-wise and concentrate on hitting every element, and then making up ground on spins, spirals and PCSs. A sensible enough strategy which might have paid off if she had been able to kick the stage fright that has always plagued her.

 

[Andalusia]

I was going to give Alissa a break, and in someways I do. But when she makes comments like "it's out of my hands" I want to shake her. It was in her hands, she's the one who skated.. But still blame the USFSA judges most of all because they put her first.

I read that comment from her, too, and it bugged me. There have been reports on other forums that she and her team ain't as sweet as they appear to be. I'm not saying this is true, but I do wonder if those reports have any basis in reality.

Honestly, I can speak for myself as to what I'd do if I was in Alissa's position. Even if I was crowned National champion, I'd pull out of Worlds and yield my spot to someone who can handle competition better. I wouldn't go, especially since I know I'm a very poor competitor and there are Olympic spots on the line this year. After all, I've competed at Worlds before, and there's no chance I'd make the podium even if I hit my planned jump content of 5 triples. Better to focus my efforts in making the Olympic team next year, and with 3 spots available, my chances of making the team are that much better.

 

[R.D.]

Even if I was crowned National champion, I'd pull out of Worlds and yield my spot to someone who can handle competition better. I wouldn't go, especially since I know I'm a very poor competitor and there are Olympic spots on the line this year. After all, I've competed at Worlds before, and there's no chance I'd make the podium even if I hit my planned jump content of 5 triples.

Are you SURE you'd do that? :think: It's easy for armchair skatefans to make comments like this but we don't know the mentality of the competitor. Obviously she trains and works hard like the other skaters, of course she'd want to go to worlds!

I think that she thought she could do it. Alas, it didn't happen.

 

[feraina]

Good news though; next in line for overly generous gifts will be our own Ms. Caroline Zhang.
I think the USFSA's opinion of her has vastly improved after 4CC and JW.

Like LeCygne, I wonder if you really *know* something, or are you just speculating? I'm not expecting USFSA to be overly generous, I am just hoping that they will be fair (Caroline has been especially unlucky with the tech panel at National's it seems: mis-entered scores, edge calls on both 3F & 3Z).

Caroline skated a bad SP at World's, though she came back strong and skated her best LP of the season with 7 triples ratified. (Was that the only ISU-ratified 7-triple program this year? Or did Rochette manage it at some point?) What with the outrageous article PH wrote after her SP, I'm not sure what the overall impact of her JW skating might've been on USFSA officials...

 

[Blades of Passion]

Oh okay.. Why would the USFSA go with someone who only even plans on attempting 5 triples?

Because there's more to skating than just jumps? Alissa's spins, spirals, and overall presentation are worth (IMO) at least 10 more points than what Flatt can do in those areas. A 5 triple program from Alissa is just as good (or better) than a 7 Triple program from Flatt. BTW, a 7 Triple program from Flatt is not really a possibility in the first place...she pretty much never rotates her 3-3 properly.

Sigh, I love the fact that Rachael Flatt performed as well as she did. It was a great big "screw you" to the USFSA judges. I mean really what kind of message did they send her, when they said her well skated long program at Nationals was only one point better than Alissa and her 3 triples.

Flatt's program at Nationals sucked. She changed her program for Worlds and it was better.

 

[Andalusia]

Are you SURE you'd do that? :think: It's easy for armchair skatefans to make comments like this but we don't know the mentality of the competitor. Obviously she trains and works hard like the other skaters, of course she'd want to go to worlds!

I think that she thought she could do it. Alas, it didn't happen.

I'm sure Alissa was aware that ten years of doing poorly in competitions most of the time probably meant she wouldn't do so hot at this Worlds, either. Yes, I'd absolutely do what I said I would in my previous post if I was in Alissa's shoes. Why? Look, I went to Worlds in the end, did poorly, and it's because of my mediocre placement that the U.S. didn't earn back 3 spots for its ladies at the Olympics. Will I be able to make it onto the Olympic team next year, which has been my primary and probably career-ending goal? OMG, definitely not, since the USFS's stock in me has plummeted -100, and they'd be wise not to prop me up ridiculously in the future, no matter if I land a 3 or 7-triple LP at next year's Nats. Hell, I could repeat as National champion next year and they probably still wouldn't send me to the Olympics!

Guess I've got to work on that 3A-3T I know I'm capable of doing - landing it many times over is probably the only way I'd manage to manoeuvre myself onto the Olympic team!

 

[brightphoton]

Yeah, I don't think Alissa was thinking that. She was probably counting on having "the skate of her life."

 

[bekalc]

Because there's more to skating than just jumps? Alissa's spins, spirals, and overall presentation are worth (IMO) at least 10 more points than what Flatt can do in those areas. A 5 triple program from Alissa is just as good (or better) than a 7 Triple program from Flatt. BTW, a 7 Triple program from Flatt is not really a possibility in the first place...she pretty much never rotates her 3-3 properly.

Alissa doesn't do 5 triple programs.

Flatt's program at Nationals sucked. She changed her program for Worlds and it was better.

At Cup of Russia and at Four Continents, Rachael used her old program against Alissa. At Four Continents she skated worse than normal and beat Alissa. At Cup of Russia she BLEW away Alissa. In both cases involved Alissa landing only 3 triples.

Don't you think there is a reason Rachael hasn't lost to Alissa internationally?

And let me be clear too, Alissa is doing programs that are a lot easier than Rachael is doing and a lot easier than a lot of the top contendors. Because Alissa gets to worry about less triple jumps of course she'll have more time to focus on her performance and looking pretty. In comparision to a skater like Rachael who has to worry about keeping up her energy for her 7 triple program.

The judges aren't going to reward someone HUGE PCS when they are doing a program of low technical difficulty.

 

[oxade21]

Alissa shall just retire.

 

[mycelticblessing]

This whole thread sidesteps the real problem - that countries are limited to a certain number of spots (or at least such a small number of spots) for Worlds/Olympics. People should be rallying for the system to be changed.

I think the system they are currently using is a good one (even though I often wish Japan could send more than 3 ladies). It makes sure that the best skaters at the previous worlds go to Olympics.

What happens if a skater like Kim Yu Na or Denis Ten can't skate in the worlds before the Olympics though? Since they're the only top skaters in their couontries, does that mean there will be no spot at the Olympics for them?

Back to the topic, I don't think its a bad year at all for Alissa. I think people were hoping for her to make top ten and she narrowly missed out. It's still a good year for her, since she won the national title, and she'll always have that with her when she retires.

 

[chuckm]

It isn't true that Rachael has never completed a 7-triple program. She did it several times in 2007-2008 and was credited with landing that 3/3.

Alissa has never attempted a 7-triple program and it appears 5 triples is the most she is capable of. Fact is she landed only TWO clean triples at Worlds 2009, because she got an edge call on her 3F, she was dinged with a UR on her 3Lo, and she doubled the 3T.

Other skaters:
Lepisto - 2 clean triples
Leonova - 5 clean triples (edge call on lutz)
Flatt - 6 clean triples (deductions were on 2nd jump of her combos)
Asada - 5 clean triples
Rochette - 5 clean triples (2nd lutz had a wonky landing, Lo doubled)
Ando - 5 clean triples (Lo was UR)
Kim - 4 clean triples (edge call on flip, doubled salchow)

 

[R.D.]

Another thing people need to think about is that if Rachel were national champion, the pressure on her at Worlds would have been that much more. How would she have responded to that? Of course, that is a hypothetical question.