Tuktamysheva: "I'm going to try the triple Axel and quad toe loop if I'm healthy"'

[Antilopa]

Wow I had no idea that Tuk used to have a 3axel! Was beautiful too!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tdkDLBmBFBU

 

[Sochi_2014]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tdkDLBmBFBU

Thanks! Yeah I YouTubed it and watched this video too. It was so beautiful and high.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

She seemed to be over extending herself at Russian nationals. Sure she had a great entrance and huge height but she seemed to use all her energy up accomplishing those two things alone. You have to be able to get back on that edge and flow out..the higher you go the harder it is to transfer out unless of course you increase your speed relative. Was it really worth it for an inch or two extra? She didn't go to Euros because she was falling on big jumps. It's my opinion she could have tamed the height a bit and just landed solid jumps and easily placed above Elena Leonova. I feel pretty confident about that and I think that it is a coaching mistake.

 

[anyanka]

I think she needs to establish more consistency in her jumps first and work on the choreography so that it works for her. While maximizing the points the way Adelina did in Sochi is the path to winning gold these days it seems, Tuk needs a better base. Caro toned down her jumps and worked on the presentation first and those always saved her when technical elements got away from her during crunch time. Perhaps maturation in presentation and expanding beyond the tangos and yet another version of "Dark Eyes" (which every Russian competitor seems required to do at some point in their careers) would distinguish her as a skater. Perform first, build the jump consistency, then maybe go for the bigger elements.

By all means she should definitely try them but perhaps not in competition yet. Her standing has dropped quite a bit to the point where a lot of us forgot about her a year after she first medaled at Euros. She needs to make us remember her. Breaking her body on the most difficult elements at this time might not be the best strategy. Perhaps in a year or two?

 

[Components]

I am more worried this will increase her injuries, she has chronic back pains already
but she needs the 3A I guess to compete with the younger girls who all have 3-3 and better skating skills and total PCS that Tuk gets

I think it will be a while before she even attempts a 3A
I'd bet on Sotnikova trying a 4T than Tuk getting that

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tdkDLBmBFBU

More rotated than almost all of Mao's attempts ever.

She's older now, but she's also stronger. It just depends on whether or not she wants to deal with training it on a regular basis.

But this should not be a hard jump for her to get, considering her technique on it is pretty good and she rotates more efficiently than Asada.

The Triple Axel is totally possible.

The Quad Toe is something I'm a bit more skeptical about.

 

[Components]

Tara Lipinski had microjumps. She rotated more than jumped. Her constantly torquing her 3Los were her downfall to injury.

There's no such thing as jumping too high, but there IS such a thing as bad technique, trying too hard, and over training. Some coaches are much better than others at understanding and setting limits on training that are effective to get the job done but also don't push a skater past the point of exhausting which lead to injuries.

Lol, Lipinski didn't really torque that much on her loops. Look at Caroline Zhang, that's torqueing the loop. Lipinski actually had fabulous loop technique and that is why that was a money jump for her.

Tara overtrained. She did too many jumps, not just loops - everything.

It doesn't matter if you torque or not. If you're landing triples on that hip constantly it may or may not hold up to that kind of training.

 

[kwanatic]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tdkDLBmBFBU

More rotated than almost all of Mao's attempts ever.

Maybe, but no one has seen her land one since. She attempted one not too long ago at one of those Russian test skates...but it wasn't even close.

A 13 year old pre-pubescent girl landing a 3A is one thing...repeatedly landing one at 23 years old is more impressive IMO.

 

[JayW]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tdkDLBmBFBU

More rotated than almost all of Mao's attempts ever.

She's older now, but she's also stronger. It just depends on whether or not she wants to deal with training it on a regular basis.

But this should not be a hard jump for her to get, considering her technique on it is pretty good and she rotates more efficiently than Asada.

The Triple Axel is totally possible.

The Quad Toe is something I'm a bit more skeptical about.

That is a huge Axel! But I am being evil here. she looked so skinny there. Her current body seems much chubbier, and she has to lose all those weight before she does it again.

On the other hand, Adelina's 4T may not be that far fetched. Just look at Adelina's athletic body type!

 

[tulosai]

Maybe, but no one has seen her land one since. She attempted one not too long ago at one of those Russian test skates...but it wasn't even close.

A 13 year old pre-pubescent girl landing a 3A is one thing...repeatedly landing one at 23 years old is more impressive IMO.

:thumbsup: There is absolutely no indication Liza will ever be able to do a 3A now. The one at the test skate wasn't even close as kwanatic says, and this video of her at age 13 is the most recent video we have of her doing one. Her body is VERY different now, and the evidence is actually (based on the test skate) that she's a long way off this goal.

Now if she can get one, good for her. But I don't think there is any reason to think it is probable or even likely.

 

[Components]

That is a huge Axel! But I am being evil here. she looked so skinny there. Her current body seems much chubbier, and she has to lose all those weight before she does it again.

On the other hand, Adelina's 4T may not be that far fetched. Just look at Adelina's athletic body type!

Adelina's ability to do a Quad Toe may be largely mental at this point. She finishes rotating her Triple Toe like a foot off the ice. A quad is just a matter of pulling in a little tighter (she jumps so high that she doesn't pull in as tight as most other girls) and staying in until the jump touches the ice.

 

[Components]

Maybe, but no one has seen her land one since. She attempted one not too long ago at one of those Russian test skates...but it wasn't even close.

A 13 year old pre-pubescent girl landing a 3A is one thing...repeatedly landing one at 23 years old is more impressive IMO.

Technically the one I linked is more impressive because it's more impressive from a technical standpoint. Less pre-rotation on the take-off, amazing revolution and a much cleaner landing with a ton of speed out of it.

Mao didn't just start throwing Triple Axels, and she is certainly no Harding or Ito as far as that jump is concerned.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

Adelina's ability to do a Quad Toe may be largely mental at this point. She finishes rotating her Triple Toe like a foot off the ice. A quad is just a matter of pulling in a little tighter (she jumps so high that she doesn't pull in as tight as most other girls) and staying in until the jump touches the ice.

Adelina's 2a at Russian Nationals Gala was completed over a foot off of the ground too!!

 

[JayW]

Adelina's ability to do a Quad Toe may be largely mental at this point. She finishes rotating her Triple Toe like a foot off the ice. A quad is just a matter of pulling in a little tighter (she jumps so high that she doesn't pull in as tight as most other girls) and staying in until the jump touches the ice.

Yes, I can't wait to see her trying it in competitions! If she did it, she will certainly have a big edge over other ladies.

But on the other hand, I don't want her to suffer the same way as Mao with her 3Axel.

 

[Components]

BTW, there *is* such a thing as jumping too high.

High jumps are much harder to control than low jumps. This is a big deal for combinations, and is why a lot of skaters will jump lower when they're putting a jump in combination than if they're doing it as a solo jump. For a combination you have to be even MORE in control of the landing of the first jump to get the second one off - especially if it's a 3-3 or 4-3 combo.

Being able to control power, speed, effort is important in skating. Things *can* be overcooked.

 

[kwanatic]

I agree with everyone else re: Adelina attempting a 4T. The biggest hurdle would be her mind. Her 3T is so massive already, once she gets the mechanics of the 4T down I think she'd be able to do it.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

Doesn't it seem odd right after injury to attempt something so risky. She needs to improve her results and climb the world rankings first. This feels like the equivalent to going into a casino and putting everything on black and saying a prayer.

 

[Components]

I agree with everyone else re: Adelina attempting a 4T. The biggest hurdle would be her mind. Her 3T is so massive already, once she gets the mechanics of the 4T down I think she'd be able to do it.

If she can at least rotate the 4T even if she falls she will still get as much Credit as a Base Triple Lutz, which is about as much as a Triple Flip with some +GOE.

Then she can do 3L or 3F-2Lo and DA.

The BV will still be higher than a 3 Triple SP, and it will likely still score higher than her current setup as well due to how high a Quad + Fall can score in IJS due to the high BV of the jump.

 

[Components]

Doesn't it seem odd right after injury to attempt something so risky. She needs to improve her results and climb the world rankings first. This feels like the equivalent to going into a casino and putting everything on black and saying a prayer.

She tore a Ligament in her Ankle. I have fallen on a one foot stop and done the same thing (skate fell over to inside edge and my entire body weight fell outside, so I was basically suspended there for seconds with my ankle bent at about 75-80 degrees, in [new] stiff boots). Once it healed somewhat I was back to learning harder jumps/spins without issue. It hurt for about 18 months or so.

I think people are blowing her "injury" way out of proportion She did not break her leg in 3 places or something.

She should still be working on her skating skills. That should be part of the training regimen of any elite skater. There is *always* room to improve in all places, IMO.

Her spins can improve, as well.

As an athelete, unless you're constantly challenging yourself, things can get pretty darn boring. She may just be trying to keep herself motivated, if she really enjoys the challenge of attempting those hard jumps.

I know I have taken multi-week breaks because I was simply burnt out on working on "basics" because it got extremely boring. I even pulled out of competitions out of boredom and lack of motivation.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

I'm just starting physical therapy myself from hitting my knee on the ice then the dasher boards:yay: Mine must be way worse because I was told four months before I would be nearing my ability to skate 100%. Mine was a bone bruise and strained MCL. She must be lucky because it looked like there was a cast on her in some of her Instagram photos. I'm just maybe being overly protective. I like Tukt quite a bit. She was the first Russian skater I felt drawn to.

I will also add that I have sprained both ankles and broken one and they actually are stronger now and susequently more flexible overall.

 

[mskater93]

If she can at least rotate the 4T even if she falls she will still get as much Credit as a Base Triple Lutz, which is about as much as a Triple Flip with some +GOE.

Then she can do 3L or 3F-2Lo and DA.

The BV will still be higher than a 3 Triple SP, and it will likely still score higher than her current setup as well due to how high a Quad + Fall can score in IJS due to the high BV of the jump.

Ladies cannot do quads (by rule) in the SP.