I'm not a huge fan of jazz either but it's a choice that is upbeat, somewhat modern that can still appeal to audiences of different ages, it's a safe choice if Gracie is going to try something new. Even if they want her to skate to something slow, they need to choose something modern she can relate to, she doesn't relate to music about a girl singing to her late father asking him for guidance, they should get a slow song that is current with lyrics that are more applicable to a 21st century girl like Gracie. Gracie gets a lot of criticism for not delivering so when she skated to Shake It Off, she related to the lyrics and actually had fun. It was nice not to see her arms flailing about without a purpose. Her POTO LP last season every time she performed it it just felt so rigid and I felt a bit restless watching. Frank and Lori need to give up the pageanty princess thing.
The performances of Wagner and Gold
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I'm not a huge fan of jazz either but it's a choice that is upbeat, somewhat modern that can still appeal to audiences of different ages, it's a safe choice if Gracie is going to try something new. Even if they want her to skate to something slow, they need to choose something modern she can relate to, she doesn't relate to music about a girl singing to her late father asking him for guidance, they should get a slow song that is current with lyrics that are more applicable to a 21st century girl like Gracie. Gracie gets a lot of criticism for not delivering so when she skated to Shake It Off, she related to the lyrics and actually had fun. It was nice not to see her arms flailing about without a purpose. Her POTO LP last season every time she performed it it just felt so rigid and I felt a bit restless watching. Frank and Lori need to give up the pageanty princess thing.
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- Oct 23, 2011
She had a sp that was this. Everyone said on here the music was jarring. Frank replaced her sp with a princess program. Very beautiful but it didn't show off Gracie's fast footwork and her ability to skate to fast difficult music. She needs to use someone besides Lori Nichols who was a dream choreographer for Kostners last Olympic season. I will remember that Ave Maria forever.
I need to go to YouTube unless anyone recalls the sp she used her last season with Ouriashev.
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Yes I remember it, the violin was so jarring and made me grind my teeth and her arms were so wild with a pageanty smile plastered on her face. Hated it but not every song in one genre will work for a skater.
Her All That Jazz EX was a lot better, she was having fun, her movement matches the music and she looked like she was enjoying herself on the ice. It wasn't perfect but you could see some sass and it was a lot more dynamic.
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- Mar 23, 2014
Not the biggest fan of the music or the choreography here, but Gracie has far more energy in this program than in her programs from this season. I wouldn't mind seeing something in this vein from her, if it was better executed and more polished. I certainly think Lori is capable of doing it for Gracie, but we'll see.
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- Oct 23, 2011
The link didn't copy but it was a Gershwin violin piece and you can see Grace skate this very difficult sp to perfection at the 2013 skate Canada. She scored well with this but Frank changed her sp to a much slower prettier piece. I loved this Sp and her dress was perfect as well. She is so talented and so stunning in every way on top of the talent.
She seems to have lost her confidence along the way though. She doesn't have killer instinct but I hope she will use Ashley as a motivator because what Ashley did last season silenced her critics.
I hope she Grace
wins in 2018. Goodness knows she has all the ability in the world. Jarring? I didn't think so.
She seems to have lost her confidence along the way though. She doesn't have killer instinct but I hope she will use Ashley as a motivator because what Ashley did last season silenced her critics.
I hope she Grace
wins in 2018. Goodness knows she has all the ability in the world. Jarring? I didn't think so.
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Gracie's PCS are overscored, if anything. How a skater that routinely ignores her music gets low to mid 8s in PE/IN is baffling to me.
The issue I have with Gracie's skating is: the talent is there, she has great jumps, great spins, good speed and SS, so I should enjoy it. The reason I don't is simple: there is a disconnect between her and the music, she doesn't seem to understand or relate to what she is skating to. For proof of this, see any of her Phantom LP performances last season. I don't know how much it is her fault and how much Frank's and Lori's for pushing these programs on her (the Sleeping Beauty LP from last year suffered from the same problem).
What makes Ashley a superior athlete to Mao? I can't think of one element that she does (jumps, spins, steps) that Mao doesn't do better and I love Ashley.
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- Dec 29, 2011
You're not the right person to say that, really. And you seem to confuse 'freedom of speech' with a permission to say something rude and impolite yourself - yes, you can enjoy or not enjoy a skater anyway you like, but the way you voice you're dislike matters.
That said, I don't think I disagreed with any post recently as much as yours. Ashley didn't have all that much transitions last season (her LP actually being very empty). She also doesn't have superior skating skills...? To whom? Certainly not to skaters like Mao, Satoko, or Adelina.
And Gracie being underscored in PCS is something I never thought I'd hear. She's getting some of the highest PCS despite putting out one flawed performance after another. She gets mid 8's in IN for a program where she skates with a big plastered on smile through music that shows a young woman grieving her fathers death. She's one of the most overscored skaters these days.
And I better not touch the comparison to Mao, you'll have a hard time to find anyone agreeing with you on that one (for very obvious reasons).
O_O I'm sorry but what kind of argument is this ?
You say that you don't care about perfect technical jumps, when it's one of the biggest part of the sport ? You seem not to like Elizaveta's style, but with her almost perfect jump technique and almost perfect performances, of course she wins. And I don't understand what you mean by "elegance", when you see she has a natural way of holding arms, head, and such maturity in her skating.
As for Mao, how can you say she's not a superior artist or athlete, the list of hits just speaks for it.
Saying all this, I admit that I'm not fan of Gracie, but I'm a huge fan of Ashley (I agree she has been underscored sometimes), it doesn't mean we can't see some other realities
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- Jan 25, 2013
Nice post Skateluvr. One thing I dislike is the notion that skaters need to need to skate like mature women to be noteworthy or worthy of titles. Everyone gets something different out of skating, but one of the reasons I love the new system is because technical skaters still have a shot to win (not that PCS scores doesn't still hold many of them back while propping up favourites). I agree that Wagner is one of the more elegant/mature skaters, and Lip/Rad skate like kids (I mean, hello, they are kids!). But it's kind of like Tara beating Michelle - she simply outskated her, and at the end of the day, athletic ability should be fundamentally the most important aspect of a competitive skater and aesthetics - while hugely important, obviously - should complement that (and not the other way around).
That being said, I take more away from Wagner's performances moreso than Radionova because Wagner is more elegant and feels her music and thus I feel more emotionally connected to her skating. However, I still think Radionova deserves her wins over Wagner/Gold/more mature skaters because she is executing her programs with more consistency and difficulty. And I also think that she works with what she has to the best of her ability - if she tried to perform a program like Wagner's Moulin Rouge it wouldn't look right.
If Gold were able to do programs that were more emotionally connected with the music instead of being prim and prop, and manage to execute the technical content she is capable of, she would be impossible to beat. It's a big ask, but I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility. Heck, after Tuktamysheva's season, there are a ton of skaters who if they get it together have the potential to win the big events.
That being said, I take more away from Wagner's performances moreso than Radionova because Wagner is more elegant and feels her music and thus I feel more emotionally connected to her skating. However, I still think Radionova deserves her wins over Wagner/Gold/more mature skaters because she is executing her programs with more consistency and difficulty. And I also think that she works with what she has to the best of her ability - if she tried to perform a program like Wagner's Moulin Rouge it wouldn't look right.
If Gold were able to do programs that were more emotionally connected with the music instead of being prim and prop, and manage to execute the technical content she is capable of, she would be impossible to beat. It's a big ask, but I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility. Heck, after Tuktamysheva's season, there are a ton of skaters who if they get it together have the potential to win the big events.
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- Dec 22, 2012
To quote someone smarter than me "you are entitle to your own opinions, but not to your own facts". The results are there to see 3 world titles. All of the GP events and the list goes on.
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- Dec 29, 2011
With Mao returning and Liza continuing to go for her 3A, I'd hope not.
Minze2001 said:
Not just that - you could blame more world titles on harder competition or something (which would be a joke given Mao competed against Yuna most of her career). But Mao was the first lady to land a 3A in juniors (and remains the only one to do so so far), she's landed the most 3A out of the great number of 6 ladies who ever laded a 3A to begin with. She became the first woman to land 3 3A in one competition - in her 1st Olympics at that. And even if she got UR calls, she was the first lady to execute 8 triples in one LP in Sochi. Ashley and Gracie on the other hand are fine jumpers - but how many feats do they have exactly? I don't get why anyone would even start that comparison. It makes pretty much no sense.
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- Jan 25, 2013
You are entitled to your opinion, but I wholeheartedly disagree. She has landed numerous triple axels, and more clean 3-3's than both of them (maybe even combined). Artistically, she exhibits more maturity than Gold, and more complexity/speed than Wagner (I mean, compare their footwork sequences).
Mao would not have the accolades that she has if she were "very very inconsistent". And if Mao is considered to be "very very inconsistent", I shudder to think what that makes Gracie/Ashley.
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- Jan 25, 2013
I don't mean literally impossible. But if Gold (and Wagner) were able to execute clean competitions, other skaters would have also skate up to snuff to beat her. A clean Gold will quite likely beat an off-their-game Tuktamysheva/Asada with 2-3 major errors (even with a 3A) - but it's not too often that Gold skates either segment clean let alone both, and Tukt has shown much improved consistency and Asada's PCS has risen to a level where she can afford errors.
I used to think a clean Gold would beat a clean Wagner (i.e. they land all planned content with no URs/e), but Wagner's upped her game and I still think she has the edge.
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- Dec 22, 2012
Well said
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- Jan 25, 2013
Well... technically that means she didn't execute 8 triples - she attempted them and was close to executing 8 cleanly. But that's not to trivialize how wonderful that LP was (I think she landed the 3-3 fine, personally - but the 2A+3T was UR on the 3T). Under 6.0 though she'd most definitely be named as the first lady to execute 8 triples in one LP (for me it's kinda like Browning's quad, the first one he landed wasn't really a clean quad with the turnout but many consider that to be the first quad ever). But I agree that the comparison to Gold/Wagner makes no sense, especially when Mao is one of the strongest jumpers if not the strongest ever with her 3A success.
Also, an off note, saying mean stuff about other skaters that has nothing to do with Ashley and Gracie will just make you look like a crazy uber.
"I think Grace and Ashley epitomize taste and it is hard to look at skaters who are jumperswith mediocre skating skills or just unattractively dressed, lousy music and Bollywood style movements win because they throw a triple axel. No offense to Russians who adore certain skaters. I just think that women's skating has few truly elegant ladies left."
I dunno about Gracie beating Tukt. First, Tukt is quite consistent, while Gracie seems to have a meltdown at either SP or FS pretty much in every competition.
The closest we've seen is WTT, where Tukt had 2 not very good skates, and Gracie managed to put out a good SP at least. And Worlds, where Gracie did a great FS.
Suppose she can put out a SP like on WTT and an SP like at worlds - that would be a score of 71+128 = 199... Tukt`s scores are around 205-210 (euros, worlds,wtt), so if Gracie manages to not have a meltdown, she still needs like 5-10 points at least.
Not counting Gracies Nationals scores here, because people tend to get crazy scores on nationals (not only US)
"I think Grace and Ashley epitomize taste and it is hard to look at skaters who are jumperswith mediocre skating skills or just unattractively dressed, lousy music and Bollywood style movements win because they throw a triple axel. No offense to Russians who adore certain skaters. I just think that women's skating has few truly elegant ladies left."
I dunno about Gracie beating Tukt. First, Tukt is quite consistent, while Gracie seems to have a meltdown at either SP or FS pretty much in every competition.
The closest we've seen is WTT, where Tukt had 2 not very good skates, and Gracie managed to put out a good SP at least. And Worlds, where Gracie did a great FS.
Suppose she can put out a SP like on WTT and an SP like at worlds - that would be a score of 71+128 = 199... Tukt`s scores are around 205-210 (euros, worlds,wtt), so if Gracie manages to not have a meltdown, she still needs like 5-10 points at least.
Not counting Gracies Nationals scores here, because people tend to get crazy scores on nationals (not only US)
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- Jan 25, 2013
It's really hard to say. I think last season people would have automatically assumed Gold would beat Tukt if they ever competed against each other. Even saying "Tukt is quite consistent" is alluding to her past season. This next season could be completely different (I mean, look at Julia going from the Olympic season to this past one).
Tukt had already survived to her puberty, and unless she has an injury, there is no reason to expect her to get much less consistent than now. Julia just had it this season, and we yet need to see if she will be able to come back full force as Tukt already did.
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- Jan 25, 2013
Oh, I'm not saying Tukt's standard will drop. But it's hard to assume how a season will shape up, as we saw with the ladies last season. I think a lot of people also expected S/K to clean up in pairs (but lost Euros and the GPF to two different teams; probably would have had to be near-perfect to beat S/H and D/R at Worlds too). And of course P/C in ice dance.
I do love how skating is less predictable now and it really is a matter of one day you could go from the bottom of the heap to the top and vice versa... makes it more exciting. I still believe in Wagner (especially when people wrote her off last season I'm glad she came through this season) and Gold (I mean, even skating poorly still puts her top 5, so she's a constant threat to podium/win in my books assuming she can ever get a clean SP+LP together).
I do love how skating is less predictable now and it really is a matter of one day you could go from the bottom of the heap to the top and vice versa... makes it more exciting. I still believe in Wagner (especially when people wrote her off last season I'm glad she came through this season) and Gold (I mean, even skating poorly still puts her top 5, so she's a constant threat to podium/win in my books assuming she can ever get a clean SP+LP together).
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