Equivalent Edea Overture - Jackson?

spread beagle · Jan 30, 2018

Just wanted to weigh in on the breaking down issue. I'm not a light weight guy and got three years out of my Risport Etoiles, with waltz jumps and a lot of skating. I'm now in the RF3 and not doing more than singles as jumps but I can't imagine breaking them down in the near future.

I recently watched that Edea video where Max Aaron talks about how his boots hold up 3 to 4 years. Imagine that? So I really wonder, how are beginner adults (even those on the heavier side) supposed to break down those rather stiff boots in such little time? If a quad jumper like Max gets three years out of his boots, is the general overbooting suggestion more of a "just in case" approach?

Tavi... · Jan 30, 2018

For the OP:

Jackson appears to have revamped almost their entire line since I bought my last boots. Only their highest level boots (Elite/Elite Supreme) are still made of leather. Everything else is made of microfiber with a lightweight sole.

If you want to buy boots only, look at the Debut Fusion (single jumps) or Debut Fusion Firm (through axel). If you want to buy a boot and blade combo, look at the Freestyle, which has a similar stiffness rating. If Debut Fusion / Freestyle seem too stiff, look at the Elle (a boot blade set rated for half jumps).

ETA: The stiffness ratings between manufacturers are not equivalent! Jackson’s Elite 5200 boots, which have a stiffness rating of 75, are rated for double jumps. Everyone’s different, but unless you are tall/big or break down boots easily, those will probably be way too stiff for you. As someone who accidentally got put into custom boots just about that stiff (I don’t do doubles!

) I would recommend against it.

tstop4me · Jan 30, 2018

Tavi... said:
Only their highest level boots (Elite/Elite Supreme) are still made of leather. Everything else is made of microfiber with a lightweight sole.

The current generation of Elites and Supremes (5000 series) have synthetic uppers [rolled out in 2016]. The only residual leather is in the LCF (leather carbon fiber composite) heel and sole. Older generation leather boots still pop up as clearance items.

Tavi... · Jan 30, 2018

tstop4me said:
The current generation of Elites and Supremes (5000 series) have synthetic uppers [rolled out in 2016]. The only residual leather is in the LCF (leather carbon fiber composite) heel and sole. Older generation leather boots still pop up as clearance items.

Really? I just went on their website and didn’t pick up on that. They just said it’s 20% lighter, presumably due to the sole. But it’s not really surprising I guess.

I think you must still be able to custom order leather, though.

Ic3Rabbit · Jan 30, 2018

Tavi... said:
Really? I just went on their website and didn’t pick up on that. They just said it’s 20% lighter, presumably due to the sole. But it’s not really surprising I guess.

I think you must still be able to custom order leather, though.

You can.

singerskates · Jan 30, 2018

Best thing to do is go with a skate that ranges from the skills you can do now to where you wish to aspire to be in 2 to 3 years.

treesprite · Jan 31, 2018

When choosing for future skill level, it might help to consider the amount of practice, frequency of lessons, the skater's rate of learning, and possibly age-correlated factors that tend to make younger skaters learn faster than older ones. Going by the OP's description, I think it would be unlikely that OP would be working on double jumps in a year. If OP plans to use the same skates for a few years, that will make a difference. However, my experience with really stiff skates, is that they may look in good shape after a few years, but they become compressed on the inside and heels start slipping, making them it her less safe and/or harder to skate in.

somelikeitpink · Jan 31, 2018

Thanks a lot for everyone's answers

treesprite said:
When choosing for future skill level, it might help to consider the amount of practice, frequency of lessons, the skater's rate of learning, and possibly age-correlated factors that tend to make younger skaters learn faster than older ones. Going by the OP's description, I think it would be unlikely that OP would be working on double jumps in a year. If OP plans to use the same skates for a few years, that will make a difference. However, my experience with really stiff skates, is that they may look in good shape after a few years, but they become compressed on the inside and heels start slipping, making them it her less safe and/or harder to skate in.

I definitely won't be working on double jumps within the next year. According to my coach its likely that with my current progression I'll have all the singles down within the next year. I don't really mind then buying new boots once I come to the doubles - if I get to them considering I started late as an adult, my main worry or concern is just that I don't want to buy new ones within the next year again (these would be my third pair within half a year, so thats not really a rate with which I wanna continue).

@tavi... I do think the Elles might be a little too soft, I think I saw them in a shop ones and felt they weren't stiff enough. Just don't think they'd last me that long. But the others are now on my list so I'll have a look.

tstop4me · Jan 31, 2018

To: OP. There was a recent thread addressing Jackson boots:

https://goldenskate.com/forum/showthread.php?68910-Upgrade-Jackson-skates-help-which-model

In case you missed it, you should look it up.

Here was my post, with added comments.

tstop4me said:
(1) At your level, assuming you stay with Jackson boots, you should move away from the Jackson recreational line (boot sold with pre-mounted blade; this includes the Elle and the Competitor) to the Jackson competitive line (boot sold separately; you pick the blade best suited for you).

(2) The Premiere is in the process of being discontinued. You don't mention whether you are a man or a woman. According to the Jackson website, the women's model has been discontinued, but the men's model is still listed as stock for now. The Premiere is a leather model. Jackson is revamping their line to synthetics.

(3) The entry level in the competitive line was the Debut, introduced ~mid 2017, just discontinued. Replaced by the Debut Fusion. I personally don't like to be a guinea pig.

(4) I'll give a third vote for the Elite. The current version of the Elite (a lightweight model fabricated with synthetic uppers and a composite carbon fiber and leather heel and sole) was introduced in 2016 (women's version rolled out ~mid year; men's version rolled out ~end of year). So it's been on the market for at least a year. My skate tech has sold some; so far positive feedback. I've posted on this forum and another for comments; only a couple of responses, but also positive (excluding one who had problems with customs).

I'm also an adult skater, about the same weight <<ETA: ~140 lbs>>. Lower level (edges and spins mainly, half-jumps at most). I've been wearing the previous generation men's Elite Suede (purchased end of 2014), which had a nominal stiffness rating of 80. I had no problems with break-in, no problems with deep knee and ankle bends. So at your level, the current Elites (in the same stiffness range, varies depending on model) should not be too stiff for you. I think stiffness is more of an issue for kids since (a) they are lighter and (b) their feet are still growing, so you don't want an overly extended break-in period relative to the total service life. <<ETA: I’ve just finished 3 full years on the same pair of Elites; I skate about 5 sessions a week, 1.5 hours/session, nearly year round . The only thing functionally that’s broken down a bit are the sponge tongue liners. I’ve dealt with that by inserting sponge pads between the liners and my feet. The rest of the internal padding and lining, including heel cups, are fine; no slippage. The exterior is also fine, except cosmetically the suede nap has worn off on spots (the suede nap wore off the tongues completely after an ~1 year of lacing and unlacing). Wear-and-tear will vary with the individual skater, of course; I’m just giving you one isolated data point.>>

Also, remember: as you go up the model line, you get better materials and a better design for better fit, comfort, performance, and service life. <<ETA: That is, don't let stiffness be your sole guide.>>

jf12 · Jan 31, 2018

somelikeitpink said:
Thanks a lot for everyone's answers

I definitely won't be working on double jumps within the next year. According to my coach its likely that with my current progression I'll have all the singles down within the next year. I don't really mind then buying new boots once I come to the doubles - if I get to them considering I started late as an adult, my main worry or concern is just that I don't want to buy new ones within the next year again (these would be my third pair within half a year, so thats not really a rate with which I wanna continue).

@tavi... I do think the Elles might be a little too soft, I think I saw them in a shop ones and felt they weren't stiff enough. Just don't think they'd last me that long. But the others are now on my list so I'll have a look.

If you’re a true beginner just working on crossovers and turns and you’re skating a lot, it’s not a bad thing if you break down your boots in a year. As far as I gather, you didn’t replace your old boots because of breakdown issues but because of bad fit. It’s likely your rate of improvement will be such that what are the best boots for you now, won’t be the best boots for you even a year from now. Not even talking about jumps but how well you’ll be able to bend your knees and ankles. You might need to buy boots rated for doubles in 18 months while you’re doing singles then, but those boots may or may not do you any favors right now. You might also have a much better idea of what you like or don’t like in boots before you spend all that money on a higher level boot.

somelikeitpink · Jan 31, 2018

Oh thank you, yeah it did seem I missed that.

I usually check before posting, but thats great info thanks!

Sibelius · Jan 31, 2018

I would suggest skipping the Elle's as an adult. I don't think those wouldn't last you very long at all. My skater had those and they are great boots for children, much nicer than the lower line skates (like that Classique etc.), but pretty soft. They would be pretty comfy from the start, but that's about it. The Freestyle would be the absolute lowest I'd go. They would at least get you going if the fit is good and are rated for about the same level as your Edea's. According to our fitter the blade is a pretty good basic blade as well.

Speaking of blades, you didn't mention what was on your Edeas (at least I didn't see it if you did). If you are on a beginner blade the Freestyle will keep you going, if you're already on an intermediate (Wilson Coro Ace, MK Pro, etc.) and you've already mastered the "big boy/girl toe pick" that should steer you to the boot only options, though as Ic3 said the size might not be the same. And don't trust the Jackson boot size/blade size charts, they are not accurate. Have your fitter measure the sole and verify the blade size that will best fit.

Sibelius · Jan 31, 2018

Not to overwhelm you with info, but be advised that the newer models of Jackson's are built on a different last (the Elite last) that reduces the availability of stock widths. The older models (including the Premier recommended earlier) are available (well, at least in Europe we've discovered!) in A-B-C-D widths, while the Debut and Fusion lines are R(A/B) and W(C/D). Again, it all comes down to what fits your feet as you should be well aware of now. Try on as many as you can get your hands on in a competent shop.

somelikeitpink · Jan 31, 2018

Thats all very useful thank you. I do think that maybe in Europe theres some left over stock in places, so we will see what he has and old vs. new models.

I did have a set with the Edeas so the blade wasn't bought separately yet, but tbh I'm so focused on finding a boot that finally fits, that I wouldn't mind if it comes in a set or that I need to buy the blades separately.
The fitter I went to seems quite competent, and my coach said she's gotten him recommended several times already, same as I have, so I think I should be able to solve my issue there.

I'll definitely all let you know how I'm getting on, I'll probably go there on sunday and talk to him.

somelikeitpink · Feb 4, 2018

Okay so a quick update:

I don't have the boots yet but I think we've narrowed it down to what I'd like.

So we tried on two different elles on the ice just so we can narrow down if I generally feel comfortable with the sizing (he had them in stock and they made it easier to compare) and I definitely went for the smaller one (which is now a size down from my edeas).

He also let me try the classiques (which thankfully didn't fit at all and he agreed that they would be a wide shot in terms of how fast I'd need new ones). I then tried the competitors on the ice which I liked much much better, also in terms of stiffness.
So we will be looking into the competitors, debuts and premier - he will call me next week once he has them all in in my size and then we can go from there.
So definitely thanks to everyone so far!

Sibelius · Feb 4, 2018

Sounds like you're on the right track. My daughter's fitter used the Elle as a sizing guide for her Debuts and once they arrived they fit perfectly. Let us know how it turns out. Any further thoughts on what blade if you go the boot only route? The Competitor comes with the Aspire XP, which as I said isn't a bad start.

somelikeitpink · Feb 6, 2018

Sibelius said:
Sounds like you're on the right track. My daughter's fitter used the Elle as a sizing guide for her Debuts and once they arrived they fit perfectly. Let us know how it turns out. Any further thoughts on what blade if you go the boot only route? The Competitor comes with the Aspire XP, which as I said isn't a bad start.

yeah they had the aspire on them if I remember correctly. And boy oh boy did I not realise the difference a blade could make. In comparison to the Edea one I absolutely loved them.
It's not set in stone though, as I said he'll get back to me this week with some price points and options.

somelikeitpink · Feb 13, 2018

And another update, that isn't really one.

So he said he spoke to Jackson now who told him that the Freestyle and the Competitor are both discontinued. I knew about the Competitor but the Freestyle surprised me a little.

What disappointed me is that despite me asking a few times about the Debut or the Premier it feels like he doesn't want to sell me a higher boot, the only alternative he brought up now were the Elles, who I think would be definitely a little too soft for me.

(In his exact words "The only model available in your size would be the Elle which is according to Jackson fitting to your level as well."

It's a little frustrating and I might go and get a second opinion at a different skate shop now, see what they say. Considering how expensive the jacksons are in comparison to Edea, I don't really wanna go and just buy them without being really happy about it.

Sibelius · Feb 13, 2018

Get a second opinion. The Competitor is discontinued here in the U.S., but the Freestyle is now the Freestyle Fusion. That's the minimum I'd recommend. Maybe the Elle is all they have in stock. Definitely try elsewhere if you can, but the Elle would be serviceable in the short term and be a better option than ordering something that can't be tried on and fitted to you. Ask the shop what they would put you in after you go through an Elle in 6 months or less.

Ic3Rabbit · Feb 13, 2018

somelikeitpink said:
And another update, that isn't really one.

So he said he spoke to Jackson now who told him that the Freestyle and the Competitor are both discontinued. I knew about the Competitor but the Freestyle surprised me a little.

What disappointed me is that despite me asking a few times about the Debut or the Premier it feels like he doesn't want to sell me a higher boot, the only alternative he brought up now were the Elles, who I think would be definitely a little too soft for me.

(In his exact words "The only model available in your size would be the Elle which is according to Jackson fitting to your level as well."

It's a little frustrating and I might go and get a second opinion at a different skate shop now, see what they say. Considering how expensive the jacksons are in comparison to Edea, I don't really wanna go and just buy them without being really happy about it.

Go find another pro fitter and get second opinion. Do not settle!

Equivalent Edea Overture - Jackson?

spread beagle

Tavi...

tstop4me

Tavi...

Ic3Rabbit

Former Elite, now Pro. ⛸️

singerskates

treesprite

somelikeitpink

tstop4me

jf12

somelikeitpink

Sibelius

Sibelius

somelikeitpink

somelikeitpink

Sibelius

somelikeitpink

somelikeitpink

Sibelius

Ic3Rabbit

Former Elite, now Pro. ⛸️

Similar threads

Connect with us