2018-19 Russian Ladies' figure skating

Sam L · Nov 16, 2018

IceBallerina said:
“Alina’s jumps are falling apart” “She can’t handle pressure”

Alina, congratulations on your world record. I wish you another one tomorrow

Sofia could grab silver here, and Polina… I am not sure but the free skate will sure be interesting. Good luck to all the ladies!

Don't worry about the doubters. Alina will win 2022 Olympic Gold. I've called it here before and I'm saying it again.

VenusHalley · Nov 16, 2018

Sam L said:
Don't worry about the doubters. Alina will win 2022 Olympic Gold. I've called it here before and I'm saying it again.

So there will be no jumping kids with QUADZZZZZ for next four years?

And where did that "Zagitova learning quads"thing come from? I mean, she did well today, but her jumps do seem bit smaller this season, so is apparently still getting used to her new body (I mean, world to her, when i had a growth spurt, i had hard time to walk on flat ground without tripping and falling). ANd not sure that in her case it would be worth the risk... would she be able to manage messing up a quad without skating at the verge of tears for the rest of the performance? Today she showed that when skating clean, she can get insane GOEs on everything...

I still think that if we see more quad attempts that end up in splat fest and doublefooted-mess... the rules might be changed again to reward clean skates more.

andromache · Nov 16, 2018

Honestly, I'm just thrilled that we have Liza and Sofia bringing it this season. There must be some good vibes at Mishin's camp these days. I'm sure we all thought it was a foregone conclusion that Alina and Evgenia would be 1 and 2 this season with Liza/Sofia/Maria/Polina as an undetermined and distant #3.....but Liza and Sofia have seriously put the pressure on Evgenia.

Evgenia is still my fave, so I am nervous for her, but I am so pleased at what great surprises Liza and Sofia have been this season.

hippomoomin · Nov 16, 2018

It's good news that Alina is learning a quad. No matter she will land it in practice or competition or not, it will definitely help her to jump higher and benefit her current triple jumps. I think she grew even taller, because she was not much shorter than Polina when they stood next to each other, and she looks slimmer. So even if she does not make to GPF it is understandable. The super junior ladies will experience their growth in the future too so I think Alina has a good future if she stays healthy.

hippomoomin · Nov 16, 2018

I wonder who is Liza and Sofia's artistic/dance coach. It's pretty obvious both used a lot of arm/wrist/finger movement in their programs, ever since Liza's first junior year she seems to be into Middle East type of dance.

lesnar001 · Nov 16, 2018

Sam L said:
Don't worry about the doubters. Alina will win 2022 Olympic Gold. I've called it here before and I'm saying it again.

VenusHalley said:
So there will be no jumping kids with QUADZZZZZ for next four years?

And where did that "Zagitova learning quads"thing come from? I mean, she did well today, but her jumps do seem bit smaller this season, so is apparently still getting used to her new body (I mean, world to her, when i had a growth spurt, i had hard time to walk on flat ground without tripping and falling). ANd not sure that in her case it would be worth the risk... would she be able to manage messing up a quad without skating at the verge of tears for the rest of the performance? Today she showed that when skating clean, she can get insane GOEs on everything...

I still think that if we see more quad attempts that end up in splat fest and doublefooted-mess... the rules might be changed again to reward clean skates more.

and if the highlighted sentence does indeed happen....

Sam L's prediction could very well come true!

Seruleane · Nov 16, 2018

Lunalovesskating said:
I am so happy to hear that. Shows how determined Alina is! She does not just give ip when the Quad A's are entering senior. She wants to keep up with that. Evgenia also wants to learn a 4S. Eteri's former and current girls sure have some strong will power &#55357;&#56842;

Yes, just the fact that Alina and Evgenia are both trying to learn quads means the world to me. What strong competitors they are. While I'm excited to see the upcoming crop of Russian and Japanese talent who can jump quads and 3As, I secretly hope Evgenia and Alina outlast them.

Shayuki · Nov 16, 2018

VenusHalley said:
So there will be no jumping kids with QUADZZZZZ for next four years?

And where did that "Zagitova learning quads"thing come from? I mean, she did well today, but her jumps do seem bit smaller this season, so is apparently still getting used to her new body (I mean, world to her, when i had a growth spurt, i had hard time to walk on flat ground without tripping and falling). ANd not sure that in her case it would be worth the risk... would she be able to manage messing up a quad without skating at the verge of tears for the rest of the performance? Today she showed that when skating clean, she can get insane GOEs on everything...

I still think that if we see more quad attempts that end up in splat fest and doublefooted-mess... the rules might be changed again to reward clean skates more.

They already did change to reward clean skates more...

If quad attempts become splat fests and doublefooted mess, then those skaters won't receive very good scores.

Myself, I doubt Zagitova has that much in reserve. In my eyes, she struggles with even getting he triples fully around. Saying that one will train quads is one thing, but being able to actually do and rotate them is something else entirely and I guess I'll believe it when I see it.

Resa · Nov 16, 2018

Alina is just 16. She has plenty of time to learn quads. its not as if she's already 35 or beyond her prime years

neusw · Nov 16, 2018

Shayuki said:
They already did change to reward clean skates more...

If quad attempts become splat fests and doublefooted mess, then those skaters won't receive very good scores.

Myself, I doubt Zagitova has that much in reserve. In my eyes, she struggles with even getting he triples fully around. Saying that one will train quads is one thing, but being able to actually do and rotate them is something else entirely and I guess I'll believe it when I see it.

You’ve seen Alina jump at full speed, without transitions, at the beginning of a program? Me neither. We have no idea how much she has in reserve, and if there’s anything I’ve learned in the past year it’s to never doubt what Eteri girls are capable of achieving.

Sugar Coated · Nov 16, 2018

Shayuki said:
Honestly, I have some great difficulty with having faith in Zagitova being able to jump quads. She can't Lutz like Trusova where she begins rotating immediately, so Shcherbakova would have to be the benchmark. And not only does Shcherbakova jump far higher than I've seen Zagitova jump, Shcherbakova also has the fastest rotation speed which Zagitova just has never demonstrated. Either Zagitova has some untapped reserves we've not even come close to seeing or ... The chances are low. I'll believe it when I see a decent attempt, I guess. Until then... Probably not even worth consideration. It just takes too much.

Actually I thought Alina’s rotation speed on the loop was 5.0 rps which was comparable to Anna’s speed and fast for seniors.

I suspect that Alina doesn’t jump as high as she is capable from her strength, but rather just as high as she has trained to land successfully (why risk messing with it just for somebody added height). The fact that she can do 5 triple loops (I think in some instagram post over the summer Alena said she could do 10 in a row) to me suggests she has untapped strength with potential for more height. She’s capable of getting high enough for three revolutions on her 5th jump which to me means she’s a) extremely resistant to muscular fatigue but also b) likely not jumping as high as possible on her initial triples.

moriel · Nov 16, 2018

Also with all due respect, there are quite a few people confident that Zhenya will learn a quad. Alina is a naturally stronger jumper, so if Zhenya can, Alina can too.

Spirals for Miles · Nov 16, 2018

Sugar Coated said:
Actually I thought Alina’s rotation speed on the loop was 5.0 rps which was comparable to Anna’s speed and fast for seniors.

I suspect that Alina doesn’t jump as high as she is capable from her strength, but rather just as high as she has trained to land successfully (why risk messing with it just for somebody added height). The fact that she can do 5 triple loops (I think in some instagram post over the summer Alena said she could do 10 in a row) to me suggests she has untapped strength with potential for more height. She’s capable of getting high enough for three revolutions on her 5th jump which to me means she’s a) extremely resistant to muscular fatigue but also b) likely not jumping as high as possible on her initial triples.

Anna's rps on her quad is something like 6.12 I think

Shayuki · Nov 16, 2018

Sugar Coated said:
Actually I thought Alina’s rotation speed on the loop was 5.0 rps which was comparable to Anna’s speed and fast for seniors.

https://cdn.tribuna.com/fetch/?url=https://image.ibb.co/fZyGYV/JL-quads.jpg
https://cdn.tribuna.com/fetch/?url=.../20/3fe4e7a5afb9e4fd859cc9bc835b38f7-full.png
https://cdn.tribuna.com/fetch/?url=https://image.ibb.co/jJeZLA/JL-3Lo.jpg
https://cdn.tribuna.com/fetch/?url=.../20/1a3e1187d10f590d7a3a4376b70efed6-full.png

5.0 is fast for seniors, sure. But that's the benchmark. That has even Anna's loop at 5.62 which is faster than Trusova's quads.

katymay · Nov 16, 2018

neusw said:
You’ve seen Alina jump at full speed, without transitions, at the beginning of a program? Me neither. We have no idea how much she has in reserve, and if there’s anything I’ve learned in the past year it’s to never doubt what Eteri girls are capable of achieving.

Well, I think Alina in particular. Her stamina and conditioning is super human. She seems to have been able to overcome just about everything in her life (broken leg, separation from parents, skating setbacks, growth, disappointing performances etc.) to succeed. As evidenced by her program today, her work ethic must be incredible. There wasn't a hand out of place today, it was as near to perfect as a human can be.

Shayuki · Nov 16, 2018

neusw said:
You’ve seen Alina jump at full speed, without transitions, at the beginning of a program? Me neither. We have no idea how much she has in reserve, and if there’s anything I’ve learned in the past year it’s to never doubt what Eteri girls are capable of achieving.

The general rule of thumb for me is: If a skater struggles with rotating triples, they probably don't have that much in reserve or they'd rotate them better / jump higher in order to be able to rotate them better. And that tends to be what separates Anna's tiny jumps from Zagitova's jumps. Even though Zagitova's are bigger, the rotation is very borderline on most if not all, whereas Anna - when she lands the jump successfully - tends to rotate entirely around, landing almost directly backwards. With Trusova this is even more pronounced, though she obviously doesn't have tiny triples.

Hence, what I like to think is: If they rotate borderline -> They probably don't have that much in reserve. If they rotate very well -> They might or might not have an unknown amount in reserve. Still, quads are so rare and difficult that I really would much rather wait for some evidence suggesting quad potential.

neusw · Nov 16, 2018

Shayuki said:
The general rule of thumb for me is: If a skater struggles with rotating triples, they probably don't have that much in reserve or they'd rotate them better. And that tends to be what separates Anna's tiny jumps from Zagitova's jumps. Even though Zagitova's are bigger, the rotation is very borderline on most if not all, whereas Anna - when she lands the jump successfully - tends to rotate entirely around, landing almost directly backwards. With Trusova this is even more pronounced, though she obviously doesn't have tiny triples.

And when she doesn’t land them successfully, it’s because she’s short of rotation and falls instead of hooking her landing like most skaters. You’re seriously showing your bias if your argument that Alina couldn’t have much in reserve is that her triples aren’t all that impressive. Anna isn’t exactly immune to underrotations on triples.

Spirals for Miles · Nov 16, 2018

I didn't get to earlier so I just want to say congratulations to Alina and Sofia for their beautiful SPs! And prayers for all three Russian ladies - Alina, Sofia, and Polina - to skate their best tomorrow and be happy with their programs! :pray:

hippomoomin · Nov 16, 2018

After seeing the improvement of Satoko in her jumps at the age of 20, I have no doubt Alina can adjust and improve her jumps. Once she settled down in her growth spurt, her jumps should be more stable. She has already won an Olympic gold and GPF gold. If she wins a world title this year, or just on the podium, there isn't much left for her to prove herself.

katymay · Nov 16, 2018

Spirals for Miles said:
I didn't get to earlier so I just want to say congratulations to Alina and Sofia for their beautiful SPs! And prayers for all three Russian ladies - Alina, Sofia, and Polina - to skate their best tomorrow and be happy with their programs!

Polina just breaks my heart. I saw her land all of her jumps in practice, and land her jumps in the warm up. What happens? It would make me so happy for her to have an error free program. I know she can do the damn jumps, for some reason, she-what?-loses focus? Nerves? IDK Mako was having problems yesterday in practice, (so I wasn't surprised to see her problems), but Polina did a complete run through of her FS with the jumps...and it was near perfect. ARG.

2018-19 Russian Ladies' figure skating

Sam L

VenusHalley

andromache

hippomoomin

hippomoomin

lesnar001

Seruleane

Shayuki

Resa

neusw

Sugar Coated

moriel

Spirals for Miles

Anna Shcherbakova is my World Champion

Shayuki

katymay

Shayuki

neusw

Spirals for Miles

Anna Shcherbakova is my World Champion

hippomoomin

katymay

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