2018-19 U.S. Ladies' figure skating

Amei · Nov 18, 2018

lavoix said:
I don't understand why you Americans are so nice to Gracie - can someone explain the rationale for competing? In such a big competition?

She was a super big mess - out of shape, couldn't jump, seriously I've never skated in my life and could probably do a better performance than that. Why on earth would her coaches allow for her to go on the ice in such a condition? If anything, she's probably gone backward again and hasn't done herself a favour.

Posters here are being supportive because of the reason why she was out of competition last year.

However I agree with you that it was a poor decision on her part to try and skate in the GP when she's 6 months from 0 and knew she wasn't close to ready. And I do feel she was a bit insulting to her Fed and the Fed that invited her to the GP that she knew what she could put out right now was trash and that's based on her own words that she was 30-40% and “We just had to start with something, even if it was trash,”. In all honesty I don't remember an instance where someone put out on the ice the level of program that she did at what's considered a top tier/elite competition, and admit they pretty much knew that what they put out was going to be bad.

lavoix · Nov 18, 2018

Mrs. P said:
Gracie has received supportive statements from posters from different places here, so it's not limited to just Americans.

I think I can be nice and note that someone isn't in competition shape or talk about whether a different decision should have been made.

As to why Vincent & Co. let her go out there. I can thinking of a number of reasons. Ultimately while a coach can say "you shouldn't do this." But if the skater wants to give it a try, a coach can't prohibit it.

Based on her tweets, I think she realized that perhaps this wasn't the BEST decision, hence her decision to WD from the free skate. Again, it's really easy for us to sit here with unlimited time and thought to make the "best" decision. But ultimately Gracie had to decide and she experienced the consequences of that decision and now can learn from it.

I don't think they are doing their job as coaches then.

And if ultimately she did go on the ice, I don't get her reaction in the kiss and cry, she should have honestly expected that, not put her head down and go "holly sh!t".

Again, I don't get the strategy.

lavoix · Nov 18, 2018

Amei said:
Posters here are being supportive because of the reason why she was out of competition last year.

However I agree with you that it was a poor decision on her part to try and skate in the GP when she's 6 months from 0 and knew she wasn't close to ready. And I do feel she was a bit insulting to her Fed and the Fed that invited her to the GP that she knew what she could put out right now was trash and that's based on her own words that she was 30-40% and “We just had to start with something, even if it was trash,”. In all honesty I don't remember an instance where someone put out on the ice the level of program that she did at what's considered a top tier/elite competition, and admit they pretty much knew that what they put out was going to be bad.

She needs to take a note from Mao Asada's book when she returned to the Japan Open with a 3A.

It's just really disappointing. It actually made me furious watching that because more worthy skaters could have gone out and competed.

drivingmissdaisy · Nov 18, 2018

lavoix said:
I don't understand why you Americans are so nice to Gracie - can someone explain the rationale for competing? In such a big competition?

She was a super big mess - out of shape, couldn't jump, seriously I've never skated in my life and could probably do a better performance than that. Why on earth would her coaches allow for her to go on the ice in such a condition? If anything, she's probably gone backward again and hasn't done herself a favour.

I think most of us who support Gracie also acknowledge that she really wasn't ready for this level of competition yet. I wouldn't go as far as to say it was a mistake to skate there, because there were legitimate reasons she needed to participate (i.e. qualify for Nationals, get that first program out of the way, etc.). What she's having to come back from, physically and mentally, is incredibly tough so she deserves compassion on her journey. Having said that, going forward she really needs to improve a lot of things before competing at that level again. And she'll have to, because I can't see her getting assigned to international events without displaying a stronger technical level than she's at now.

lavoix · Nov 18, 2018

DenissVFan said:
That is... a bold statement :noshake:

Be bold or go home.

brightphoton · Nov 18, 2018

lavoix said:
I don't understand why you Americans are so nice to Gracie - can someone explain the rationale for competing? In such a big competition?

She was a super big mess - out of shape, couldn't jump, seriously I've never skated in my life and could probably do a better performance than that. Why on earth would her coaches allow for her to go on the ice in such a condition? If anything, she's probably gone backward again and hasn't done herself a favour.

A few years ago, Gracie was hyped as our next Michelle Kwan, she was going to win all the Olympic medals and World medals, 18 years old, triple-triple-triples in practice, giant triple-lutz-triple-toe. Her whole family put all their hopes onto Gracie, packed up and moved to California and hired Michelle Kwan's old coach. All hail Gracie.

In retrospect, that was not the best course of action. She did pretty darn well, 4th at Olympics, 4th at Worlds, won Nationals too. The only American skater who was arguably better was Ashley Wagner. But there was so much backlash and harsh words for 18 year old Gracie, because she didn't win the gold medal at the Olympics, she didn't win the gold medal at Worlds. This led to her anorexia, depression.

So now? Yes, people are gentle with her, partly as a way of saying, sorry about all that before ...

NAOTMAA · Nov 18, 2018

I find it interesting that so many posters mention Carolina Kostner as the blueprint of how Gracie should map her comeback. Because really the whole reason Carolina needed a comeback was for reasons completely different that don't have anything in common with what Gracie has gone through. Yes she was retooling her jumps but she didn't have to deal with all the other extra baggage so she was rebuilding with a much more clear vision and plan in front of her.

Carolina, or Mao for another example, was rebuilding from like 6 (out of 10) while Gracie is practically almost at 0. I can't think of any other skater who had to rebuild from that low. Can anybody name someone? So really there almost is nobody to compare her situation with, nobody she can use as her blueprint. She's basically the first and will have to do it her own way whatever that may be.

Ophelia · Nov 18, 2018

lavoix said:
I don't think they are doing their job as coaches then.

If anyone listened to the latest TSL vlog, they had some rather troubling hints about Gracie's coaches and their legal history.

littlesnow · Nov 18, 2018

People are supportive of Gracie because depression and ED thoughts won’t go away overnight or even after a few months. She will still be having these kinds of thoughts years from now. Every mean thing people are saying about how she is out of shape and should have WD earlier, how she took someone else’s spot- she’s already thinking these things herself. It serves no purpose to be rude and bring her down when she is trying to get back up and to climb out of a hole. And she deserves compassion as she has been the biggest US name in women’s figure skating in recent years. No American has been able to fill the hole left by her so far.

Also your statement that you could skate better than that with zero skating experience is ridiculous.

I personally feel that Gracie should have gone out there in the FS and skated with a big smile on her face and doing all doubles. She should be proud of where she is and skate with zero shame. Sadly I think she is still struggling with her depressive thoughts so she couldn’t face it. Another reason why fans should be supportive of her rather than tear her down.

twirlingblades · Nov 18, 2018

littlesnow said:
I personally feel that Gracie should have gone out there in the FS and skated with a big smile on her face and doing all doubles. She should be proud of where she is and skate with zero shame. Sadly I think she is still struggling with her depressive thoughts so she couldn’t face it. Another reason why fans should be supportive of her rather than tear her down.

Disagree 100%: it would’ve been physically (and mentally) dangerous for her to skate a long. She wasn’t physically able to- she could barely get through run-throughs *without* jumps. Doing this competition probably wasn’t a good idea- the short wasn’t a fluke.

twirlingblades · Nov 18, 2018

Mrs. P said:
As to why Vincent & Co. let her go out there. I can thinking of a number of reasons. Ultimately while a coach can say "you shouldn't do this." But if the skater wants to give it a try, a coach can't prohibit it.

Disagree with this also. Your job as a coach is to do what’s best for your athletes. If she wasn’t ready yet, coaches shouldn’t have let her go. Period. It’s their job. Shrugging your shoulders and watching an implosion that you knew was going to happen is a massively bad look. Not only is it their reputation that is tarnished, its Gracie’s as well.

drivingmissdaisy · Nov 18, 2018

littlesnow said:
I personally feel that Gracie should have gone out there in the FS and skated with a big smile on her face and doing all doubles. She should be proud of where she is and skate with zero shame.

I thought this too, but apparently Tatiana Tarasova questioned whether Gracie's fitness level would even allow her to finish a LP with doubles, based on how she looked in the practices. I don't know how Nationals is going to turn out; I think it's very likely she'd finish last by a wide margin if it were held today, and I can't see her improving all that much in two months.

ruffledgrouse · Nov 18, 2018

Mrs. P said:
The on-brand sounds kinda strange, but I think what she's trying to say is that she has been used to jumping right in to the shark waters. After all she went from not making nationals in 2011 to winning a JGP in a matter of months.

drivingmissdaisy said:
That is such a strange way to preface her statement. It sounds like she is talking about a marketable product, not someone who is trying to take the smartest approach for a successful comeback.

"On brand" is a new slang term for someone's 'style' (source: my 15yo goddaughter and her friends)

Mrs. P · Nov 18, 2018

ruffledgrouse said:
"On brand" is a new slang term for someone's 'style' (source: my 15yo goddaughter and her friends)

Ha, I was thinking that too. Thanks for the confirmation.

Skater Boy · Nov 18, 2018

I actually though TSL vlog had some good comments that were on the money.

1. Everyone generally loves Gracie and want her to succeed
2. She wasn't ready and Nationals is probably not realitistic. It doesnt mean she won't be able to compete with the elite; just not now
3 It will take time; she has gone through a lot and the competition has grown
4 her coaches should be looking at her best interests but those interests may not be their best interests
5 Who knows what if any agreements she has with sponsors that may affect whether she skates
6.. it is not about the weight - shejust wasn't mentally or physically ready. She has not done complete run throughs and shehadnt got back her triples. She can do them but like 1 out of 7 times I think was the exampe they aid
7. This will not be a confidence builder. she needs to come back on her own time and when she is ready.. Dave estimated mae 14 to 16 months down the road

I know there have been comments she needed to skate to go to Nationals. But that presupposes she needs to go to Nats.

All of these are fair points.

I still can't get over what we saw. And to those who though she should do her freeskate even with doubles. this is a major competition there are other events or exhiitions to throw out the first pancake. I amno sure how this is a confidence builder.

The only good thing and that is in the eye of the beholder is she is probably the most talked about skater from Russia.
Dave and Jonathan form TSL also said she didn't look happy to compete and she had that blank look and you knew it wasn't going to be good

ssminnow · Nov 18, 2018

NAOTMAA said:
I find it interesting that so many posters mention Carolina Kostner as the blueprint of how Gracie should map her comeback. Because really the whole reason Carolina needed a comeback was for reasons completely different that don't have anything in common with what Gracie has gone through. Yes she was retooling her jumps but she didn't have to deal with all the other extra baggage so she was rebuilding with a much more clear vision and plan in front of her.

To be frank, none of us really know what Carolina or anyone else went through either. Gracie went public with her struggles, many others struggle privately, and we can build everyone up without taking away credit from anyone else or saying any one journey is more or less difficult.

Ophelia · Nov 18, 2018

Skater Boy said:
I actually though TSL vlog had some good comments that were on the money.
4 her coaches should be looking at her best interests but those interests may not be their best interests

I mentioned this in an earlier post, but what is the "legal history" about Gracie's coach that TSL was talking about? Is he banned from coaching in France or something?

twirlingblades · Nov 18, 2018

Dave made an interesting comment in the recap... allegedly Mitch told Gracie that if she wanted to pull out from Russia, she would still get a bye to nationals since USFS already awarded it to her by approving her to get a GP and her getting assigned. Dave said USFS should’ve encouraged her not to go after seeing her practice and should’ve worked with her on a training plan. I totally agree. There was a complete lack of anyone that cared about Gracie. Vincent is a rink hopper that is looking for the next skater he can attach his name to.

(I don’t blame her Gracie at all by the way.)

Tolstoj · Nov 18, 2018

twirlingblades said:
Dave made an interesting comment in the recap... allegedly Mitch told Gracie that if she wanted to pull out from Russia, she would still get a bye to nationals since USFS already awarded it to her by approving her to get a GP and her getting assigned. Dave said USFS should’ve encouraged her not to go after seeing her practice and should’ve worked with her on a training plan. I totally agree. There was a complete lack of anyone that cared about Gracie. Vincent is a rink hopper that is looking for the next skater he can attach his name to.

(I don’t blame her Gracie at all by the way.)

I don't think we should blame anyone really for that, you could see it both ways cause if you tell her only good things, never push her to work harder she could have arrived at Nationals with this shape.

Instead she went to Russia and faced the reality: this is your level at an international event with no home bias for you, if you want to get better you have to keep working hard for months, that's the message i hope she got from this outing.

My only concern is more on who can really fix her issues and pushing her to the right direction, i don't know much about her current coaching team besides their their careers as skaters.

hippomoomin · Nov 18, 2018

I wonder if Gracie's coaches "dare" to tell her not to compete if she said she wanted, because like many fans, they think Gracie needs to be supported and protected. Who wants to take the responsibility if they hurt Gracie's confidence by advising her not to go to Russia? I feel really bad for the two guys sitting next to her at K&C. They both showed up to be supportive, but they looked very awkward there.

2018-19 U.S. Ladies' figure skating

Amei

lavoix

Match Penalty

lavoix

Match Penalty

drivingmissdaisy

lavoix

Match Penalty

brightphoton

NAOTMAA

Ophelia

littlesnow

twirlingblades

twirlingblades

drivingmissdaisy

ruffledgrouse

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!

Skater Boy

ssminnow

Ophelia

twirlingblades

Tolstoj

hippomoomin

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