2018-19 U.S. Ladies' figure skating

[moonvine]

I’m really interested in the approach her team took in launching this comeback. It doesn’t make a lot of sense to me... but mostly I’m just so confused as to why it’s so important that Gracie makes it nationals this year? She herself says she’s not trained enough...How much can really change in two months? If it’s a four plan, surely it would be much less stressful experience for her to take it slow, and not rush into anything...her team needs to take notes from Daisuke Takahashi. At the very least, they have to know how bad the optics of all this look.

She may need money/sponsors and she won't get them by waiting until next year and competing in regionals/sectionals. It's been speculated she has no sponsors anymore. Of course if she bombs at Nationals it won't help but frankly the US ladies are so weak she may even do OK at Nationals. I don't think a top 6 finish is out of the question if she skates significantly better than she did at this Grand Prix. I would think if one skated 6-8 hours per day for 2 months that would make a significant difference, but I have not ever set foot on the ice so I'm just really guessing. We don't know for sure she'll even go to Nationals; she may change her mind and decide herself she isn't ready.

 

[eaglehelang]

Doesn't a physician have to sign a formal USFS form before a major competition that a skater is healthy? If not, it's about time they did.....

And, with or without a USFS form, I can't imagine that a physical and mental health team would have sanctioned Gracie's comeback at a major international competition. It seems very unlikely that a trip to a major and unnerving competition in Russia would be a recommendation from an ethical physician/therapist—Gracie must not have followed the advice of her health team?

Mental health is harder to determine than physical injury. The athlete may behave fully well, until he/she faces the stressful situation. A psychologist might sign off saying Gracie is good to go as long as she continues therapy X times a week/month, etc.

But USFS having a test skate may be a good way to gauge how she will perform under pressure. Then at least whatever happens at Rostelecom, USFS can say "At the test skate she could do the triples, all the elements seemed ok-ish, that's why we allowed her participation"

If I remember correctly, in 2014 NHK, Yuzuru had to skate a run thru for JSF officials to show he was fit enuf to compete. This was shortly after the crash with Han Yan at 2014 COC. At the run thru he landed both quads but in actual competition he fell on at least 1 jump.

 

[klutzy]

I don't blame Gracie for competing and withdrawing. She was clearly stressed when she stepped out and going out for the long may well have caused her to emotionally spiral.

I keep comparing her comeback to Polina Edmond's last season. Even though it didn't end up the way she wanted, I think Polina's strategy was a better one--she did some pretty minor summer comps (starting with one in Vacaville) and she was a mess when it came to the jumps. By the time she made it to her Grand Prix, she wasn't great, but she could get through a version of her short that was pretty clean. By the time she got to Nationals, her short was a real treat even if it wasn't competitive internationally. I think that had to leave her in better shape emotionally than Gracie's tactic is leaving her. At least she knew she was getting better through the season and it didn't matter that she marked most of her jumps at her first couple of competitions.

Regarding Bradie Tennell--I think she'll do well in France--not enough to get to the Grand Prix final, but enough to remind us why she's U.S. Champion.

 

[halulupu]

I don't think it's fair to compare Gracie to Carolina... Her first competition ('16 Golden Spin Zagreb) back she scored 69.95 SP and 126.28 FS. Watching the program, she did a 3T-3T, 3Lo (hand down), 2A. Can Gracie even do a 3-3 right now?

Why is it not fair? Simple:two elite skater making their comback. Its still sport after all and in the end result matters. One was prepaired the other one not so much.
And by the way:carolina had a really rough time in the two years out as well.
But i am sure gracie will shine again in one way or the other

 

[Skater Boy]

In some ways Gracie is a pioneer. She mde it okay for people to talk about mental health and for peope le to take a break. We nowknow Ashley and Gabby Daleman all have had issue and needed a time out. We have to give her the benefit of the doubt? that she was ready to compete and then she crumbled. One would hope she wouldnt' compete at 30 or 40 percent. I also want to assume that Gracie didn't know she wasn't likely to do well enough in REgionals and Sectionals to get to worlds so skating in the GP was her way of getting to Nats.

I just would like Gracie to know - win or lose, its okay for her not to compete and its okay if she doesn't win or even medal. She is a beautiful person still. She has nothing to prove. If she wants to skate great but if it is causing her so much stress and anxiety wshe has to pull out or she has a breakdown ormini breakdown even then I think it is time for her to retire and live for Gracie. Seeing her skate ini Russia really was qite upsetting. you just wanted to hug her and tell her it is okay.

 

[brightphoton]

At this point of the quad cycle and the state of US figure skating, this was the "best" time, to use a word loosely, for Gracie to have a Grand Prix performance.

But you say, but what about all the other girls we could have sent instead of Gracie?
Karen Chen was assigned but she has a broken/injured foot and is out for the GP season. There's wasn't a substitute sent in her place. Yes she withdrew a bit late but who knows the logistics of sending in someone else.

But the complaint, maybe someone from sectionals could have made it to Nationals if they got the GP bye. I don't know who from sectionals has the minimum world standings or seasons best score to go on the senior GP, but going by the judges scores at the last sectionals ....... triple jumps are very hard to come by.

But of course, then someone with 1 GP event could have had 2? I don't want to poohpooh our 1 GP event skaters, they are trying their best, but I think 1 is enough.

 

[SorrySkater]

For those who said Gracie should go to a jump specialist, I believe that’s what Vincent Restencourt is. Wasn’t that his role in Kori Ade’s camp? With that being said, I’m not sure he’s the best choice of coach for Gracie. I wonder if Restencourt was chosen in part due to location - it’s been pretty easy to stay out of the public eye there. I know little of his experience in coaching a high-level skater, so my concerns may be way off base. My gut says she should be with someone like Yuka Sato.

Easy for me to say, though. This is Gracie’s choice and not mine; I’m sure she is doing what she believes to be the best thing for herself.

 

[Moxiejan]

At this point of the quad cycle and the state of US figure skating, this was the "best" time, to use a word loosely, for Gracie to have a Grand Prix performance.
But you say, but what about all the other girls we could have sent instead of Gracie?
Karen Chen was assigned but she has a broken/injured foot and is out for the GP season. There's wasn't a substitute sent in her place. Yes she withdrew a bit late but who knows the logistics of sending in someone else.

But of course, then someone with 1 GP event could have had 2? I don't want to poohpooh our 1 GP event skaters, they are trying their best, but I think 1 is enough.

Russia would not have been obligated to replace Gracie (or Karen) with another U.S. skater. They could have picked anyone from the replacement list. That being said, there indeed was a deserving U.S. lady with only one GP spot who has won GP medals in two recent seasons & who has been skating decently this year: Courtney Hicks. Though it is not the “fault” of Karen & Gracie (or Nicole Scott, who also WD very late) that various feds kept bypassing Courtney & picking other replacements, the fact that K & G acted so slowly did indeed have a direct negative influence on another athlete.

At least Courtney is getting the chance for a wonderful skating opportunity this weekend, by apppearing in Scott Hamilton’s big show.

 

[jenaj]

I think if Gracie goes to Nationals, she should consider using an easier layout, like Carolina Kostner did when she came back after her disastrous result at Vancouver. Throw in solo 3T in the long and substitute a 3sal for the flip in the short. Maybe just aim for a 3lz-2T. Her goal should be to skate clean,not to win or medal. If she could achieve higher GOE on easier jumps, things might work in her favor.

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

About the Gracie thing, I agree with people who say the score/overall performance wasn’t what she expecting. I think people think she can only do doubles right now and she should have expected this. My guess is she has probably been doing (3ltz-2t, 3flip, 2a)Sp runthroughs maybe more often than not. She even did a 3flip right before her program: https://www.instagram.com/p/BqQdVLfnDO5/?utm_source=ig_share_sheet&igshid=18ra56v0qvy7y

I figured if she tried a 3F in the SP, she is doing more than doubles in practice. However, the flip in that IG video is very short of rotation, almost 1/2. If that's what her best jumps are like in practice, she probably isn't ready to compete at the elite international level just yet.

There's some talk her about Gracie needed to participate in Nationals to maintain/obtain sponsorships. Hopefully that's not the case, because if it is it's unfortunate that she's pushing herself to do events she isn't ready for. I can't see how she goes from here to having a result she's happy with at Nationals in two months, because her withdrawal from the LP seems to indicate she's still burdened by expectations set from her previous strong results.

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

But of course, then someone with 1 GP event could have had 2? I don't want to poohpooh our 1 GP event skaters, they are trying their best, but I think 1 is enough.

Any of the US skaters who don't have 2 assignments had weak international results and/or a weak result at Nationals. I don't think Gracie's spot should have (or would have) gone to another American. Whatever the future holds for Gracie, having done this GP event will be a valuable learning experience.

 

[louisa05]

This whole matter of Gracie going to a Grand Prix event not mentally recuperated enough to perform up to expectation (hers' and, evidently USFS's) reminds me of Rachel Flatt who went to a major competition injured. IIRC she was fined for doing that. It also reminds me of Wagner's casual withdrawal from Skate America last season before the FS, citing injury. Going to or withdrawing from a major competition because you are (predictably) not in a condition to perform (i.e. physically or mentally healthy, which should be considered on a par, IMO) has implications for other people and not just yourself. This is not a casual thing!

IMO USFS at its champs camp should be emphasizing that you do not show up at a competition except 100% ready to go. It's not fair to most everyone else and it's frankly unsafe if you're not healthy.

Doesn't a physician have to sign a formal USFS form before a major competition that a skater is healthy? If not, it's about time they did.....

And, with or without a USFS form, I can't imagine that a physical and mental health team would have sanctioned Gracie's comeback at a major international competition. It seems very unlikely that a trip to a major and unnerving competition in Russia would be a recommendation from an ethical physician/therapist—Gracie must not have followed the advice of her health team?

Most elite athletes have ongoing physical issues. Simple fact when using your body in the ways that they do. So it is often the case that a serious injury initially presents as one more nagging ache or pain. Expecting skaters to always know how their body is going to respond before they ever step on a plane to a competition is asking too much. Should someone show up with full knowledge of a serious injury as Rachael Flatt did? Absolutely not. But showing up on the tail end of rehabbing an injury as Ashley did last year and either re-aggravating the problem or discovering that travel and competition stress means they are not as ready as they thought is not completely in a skater's control. Long flights can be difficult with injuries that may have seemed healed before the skater got on the plane. Conditions away from home are not always ideal for training, rehab, sleep, etc...

And if you think all of that can be solved by not allowing any athletes to get on the plane if their bodies are not 100% free from aches, pains or injuries....well, there would be no sports. Not skating or any other on the elite level.

 

[mrrice]

Mental health is harder to determine than physical injury. The athlete may behave fully well, until he/she faces the stressful situation. A psychologist might sign off saying Gracie is good to go as long as she continues therapy X times a week/month, etc.

But USFS having a test skate may be a good way to gauge how she will perform under pressure. Then at least whatever happens at Rostelecom, USFS can say "At the test skate she could do the triples, all the elements seemed ok-ish, that's why we allowed her participation"

If I remember correctly, in 2014 NHK, Yuzuru had to skate a run thru for JSF officials to show he was fit enuf to compete. This was shortly after the crash with Han Yan at 2014 COC. At the run thru he landed both quads but in actual competition he fell on at least 1 jump.

This is completely true. The problem is....that to the outside world you look fine. You're not bleeding, you're not wearing a cast, and you don't have stitches or bruising. What could possibly be wrong? I am willing to cut Gracie all the slack she needs. I will consider it a successful comeback if she makes the top 10 at Nationals. I don't however, think she will be happy with 10-12 finish.

 

[tothepointe]

Gracie for sure needs an professional advisor, who can give her a realistic assessment of different outcomes if she does this or that, so that she will not be hurt if things don't turn out as she expected. I am a little afraid people around her are being too protective and simply go with whatever she decides to do. Loving her does not mean allowing her to damage her confidence further with whatever she decides to do.

Hope someone she trusts can give her some honest advices, not things she wants to hear. Otherwise, that's no point seeking "help."

The thing about being in therapy / treatment is generally a good therapist won't give you advice but will support you in trying to formulate your own solutions and being encouraging. So from a mental health point of view no one would have told her not to do it but instead help her develop coping skills for whatever she did decide to do. This would have felt quite refreshing and empowering for her and may have lead to feeling she was in a better position than she was.

 

[evasorange]

She may need money/sponsors and she won't get them by waiting until next year and competing in regionals/sectionals. It's been speculated she has no sponsors anymore. Of course if she bombs at Nationals it won't help but frankly the US ladies are so weak she may even do OK at Nationals. I don't think a top 6 finish is out of the question if she skates significantly better than she did at this Grand Prix. I would think if one skated 6-8 hours per day for 2 months that would make a significant difference, but I have not ever set foot on the ice so I'm just really guessing. We don't know for sure she'll even go to Nationals; she may change her mind and decide herself she isn't ready.

I mean no offense to Gracie personally, but her showing this week proves she cannot compete at an elite level at this moment in time. I think it would be pretty hard to get sponsors? I guess she could try on name alone but in a sport that is so unfairly reputation based I don’t know why you would want to risk showing another performance like the one we just saw at one of the biggest competitions of the year. I just read the Olympics channel article and direct quote from Gracie “I never do things the easy way. I would never comeback at a small competition”

And that just shows a really flawed way of thinking that was bound to blow up in her teams faces imo. When you’ve been out of competition for over a year, when you’ve had a decline in your jumps, when you are on the older side of your fellow competitors-there is no “easy way” to come back. She and her team must have been delusional to think that going to a small competition would have been the easy way out. For goodness sake, Yuzuru, the biggest name and one of the greatest talents in this sport we’ve ever seen is not above doing small competitions to start his season! I really hope she and her team learned something from this weekend because otherwise...they are in for an incredibly rocky and long road.

 

[qwerty]

I mean no offense to Gracie personally, but her showing this week proves she cannot compete at an elite level at this moment in time. I think it would be pretty hard to get sponsors? I guess she could try on name alone but in a sport that is so unfairly reputation based I don’t know why you would want to risk showing another performance like the one we just saw at one of the biggest competitions of the year. I just read the Olympics channel article and direct quote from Gracie “I never do things the easy way. I would never comeback at a small competition”

And that just shows a really flawed way of thinking that was bound to blow up in her teams faces imo. When you’ve been out of competition for over a year, when you’ve had a decline in your jumps, when you are on the older side of your fellow competitors-there is no “easy way” to come back. She and her team must have been delusional to think that going to a small competition would have been the easy way out. For goodness sake, Yuzuru, the biggest name and one of the greatest talents in this sport we’ve ever seen is not above doing small competitions to start his season! I really hope she and her team learned something from this weekend because otherwise...they are in for an incredibly rocky and long road.

I think people are misreading Gracie's tone. I don't think she's pooh-poohing small competitions, I think she's saying "that's so me, making life difficult, competing in Russia first."

Questionable decision-making, yes. I don't think it's intended as a diss of small competitions, which she regularly participated in even at her prime.

 

[evasorange]

I think people are misreading Gracie's tone. I don't think she's pooh-poohing small competitions, I think she's saying "that's so me, making life difficult, competing in Russia first."

Questionable decision-making, yes. I don't think it's intended as a diss of small competitions, which she regularly participated in even at her prime.

Hmmm maybe. I guess it’s the I would NEVER that really gives me pause and makes me think that she and her team had very unrealistic expectations for this comeback from the start. Like why would
You never choose a small competition to comeback at? What logical reasons could you possibly give? It’s a strategy that has proven effective for skaters time and time again.

 

[qwerty]

Hmmm maybe. I guess it’s the I would NEVER that really gives me pause and makes me think that she and her team had very unrealistic expectations for this comeback from the start. Like why would
You never choose a small competition to comeback at? What logical reasons could you possibly give? It’s a strategy that has proven effective for skaters time and time again.

She has an interesting turn of phrase, and tends toward hyperbole. I wouldn't read into it too much.

 

[Mrs. P]

She has an interesting turn of phrase, and tends toward hyperbole. I wouldn't read into it too much.

Yep! Gracie tends to speak in a lot of hyperbole based on her tweets, so her quote was totally “on-brand” with how she speaks.

And yes, Gracie has done summer completions and challenger series events in past seasons, so I agree the quote was not a diss on them.

 

[NAOTMAA]

I think when you're trying to make a comeback, especially from something like Gracie is, you need to start almost from scratch and build yourself back to the top. Like doing simple basics at exhibitions, then moving to smaller B/Challenger events and eventually building up to the top tier competitions. All while gradually increasing the elements and difficulty. It's all about the process.

It feels like team Gracie skipped A LOT of steps in the process, while keeping everything very close to the chest, by seemingly going directly to Rostelecom and that just makes everyone go crazy with more speculation. Obviously we don't know everything going on in Gracie's head but on the outside it doesn't look like the path currently being taken is all that beneficial for either a skating comeback or her personal health. We probably won't see her again till Nationals so we'll just have to wait and see again just like it was this past week.