2019-20 U.S. Men's Figure Skating

shine · Nov 3, 2019

1111bm said:
Also, loosely related to Nathan's "dubious" scoring at this event: Psst, Shoma's first two jumps both had a full on two-hands-down, head-and-upper-body-bent-over plus step-out mistake, and none of them were called as a fall... but don't tell anyone!

(which is not to say, that I was not utterly heartbroken after Shoma's performance and seeing the state he was in )

And this is the best argument I've seen from them yet: Since if he didn't put his hands down it would've been a fall, therefore it should've been called...a fall. I dunno. Whatever it takes to make your life a little easier, I guess?

IcyMathStats · Nov 3, 2019

1111bm said:
Also, loosely related to Nathan's "dubious" scoring at this event: Psst, Shoma's first two jumps both had a full on two-hands-down, head-and-upper-body-bent-over plus step-out mistake, and none of them were called as a fall... but don't tell anyone!

(which is not to say, that I was not utterly heartbroken after Shoma's performance and seeing the state he was in )

Wait, did anyone seriously try to argue that Nathan should have received a deduction for a fall? Definitely negative GOE on the Lutz, but that doesn't meet the criteria for a fall.

1111bm · Nov 3, 2019

IcyMathStats said:
Wait, did anyone seriously try to argue that Nathan should have received a deduction for a fall? Definitely negative GOE on the Lutz, but that doesn't meet the criteria for a fall.

No, this isn't about the 4Lz, this is about Nathan's 'both hands down' mistake on the 3A in his SP. The exact same thing happened to Shoma on his first two jumping passes in his FS.

shine said:
And this is the best argument I've seen from them yet: Since if he didn't put his hands down it would've been a fall, therefore it should've been called...a fall. I dunno. Whatever it takes to make your life a little easier, I guess?

Yeah, I don't quite get that argument, because isn't that potentially true for all touchdowns with one or both hands? I guess in some cases sticking out your hand is just a reflex and maybe the skater would have been able to catch him-/herself without the extra help of his/her hand, but we (or the judges) can't know for sure, because there's no way to see the jump in question without the touchdown.

century2009 · Nov 3, 2019

1111bm said:
Omg people, if you look at the protocols from IDF and compare the mistakes skaters such as Nathan, Shoma or Samarin had on some of their landings (and also look at some other competitions from the past) it is clear that the tech panel takes some leeway with how they interpret the regulations and technical rules regarding falls.

Like at IDF they clearly drew the line at 'blades are not touching the ice anymore/knee on the ice' which is why Samarin's tumble on his 3Lz was called as a fall, Shoma's and Nathan's didn't. It's as simple as that.

When some people feel the need to constantly point out every call or scoring, that they find questionable, whenever Nathan is concerned (what a coincidence!), but choose to be quiet or don't recognise whenever other skaters benefit from similar calls/scoring... I think it's clear there's bias and resentment behind such behaviour...

Thank you. Really getting ridiculous for something so minor. It was not a fall but you know some people just like to be bias.

el henry · Nov 3, 2019

century2009 said:
Thank you. Really getting ridiculous for something so minor. It was not a fall but you know some people just like to be bias.

Who are the "some people" that you believe to be biased? I would like to know before I determine if I need to answer. Thanks

Makemi · Nov 4, 2019

So I've been lurking on GS for over a year now (discovered this board right at after the Olympics 2018 and have been visiting here pretty religiously nearly everyday since) and I've told myself I'd never make an actual account. But I finally felt compelled to make one today because I've been a bit sad about the state of this board and I especially don't know what happened to this thread.

A little background, when I first started coming to this board in 2018, my favorite thread was the U.S. Men's Thread (obviously because I am a huge fan of U.S. Men... I like to say that Jason's Riverdance brought me back to figure skating and Nathan made me stay). I really enjoyed all the discussion in the 2018-2019 thread. I'd never followed juniors before but because of all the talk about them in that old thread I started following the JGP and then I became smitten with Tomoki, Camden, Andrew T., and Alexei. If people hadn't discussed them there I would never have thought to find them. And now that I know that the JGP exists I made it a point to follow it religiously this season. So now I've also learned that Ilia Malinin is crazy good and Joseph Klein is adorable (I watch Joseph's short program from Lake Placid whenever I need a pick-me-up, it just makes me smile).

So...what happened to all that? There isn't much discussion going on and whenever I come in here now all I see is bickering (which seems to be anytime Nathan performs, which breaks my heart because I love him dearly). We're halfway through the season and instead of recapping the JGP, discussing performances and GP podium chances of the rest of our men, what'll happen at Nationals, we've instead had a page and half of Nathan's "fall/not fall" and prior to that, about two pages of Nathan's PCS. I know that people have their favorites, and they take issue with scoring (which I also don't understand - there's so much quibbling over points yet the general consensus is the "placements are correct." It's like if my friend owes me $5.04 and they only give me $5. I'm not going to argue over the missing 4 cents). Disagreements are going to happen but it's possible to have meaningful discussions without getting snarky, sarcastic, or defensive or pulling another skater down just to make a point (there's enough of that going on Twitter). I mean, I get that "The Edge" has pretty much turned into a cess pool but this thread doesn't have to follow suit.

FWIW, in an effort to steer discussion into something more productive, I'm going to give my mid-season thoughts. Because the U.S. Men is more than just Nathan and Jason.

Nathan - So Nathan's the first skater to qualify for the GPF! I was afraid he would try to "one-up" after what Yuzu did last week and I'm really happy he didn't and went along at his own pace. He's clearly building up his elements one at a time and I think the way he's doing it is pretty clever. I was a little worried with all the mistakes thus far but, now that I think about it, he usually doesn't skate clean until Nationals so I guess he's on track. He's probably annoyed at not landing that 4Lz-3T but kudos to finally nailing that pesky 4T-eu-3F. I'm pretty amused that he and Yuzu both coincidentally decided to go after that same combo this year. As for La Boheme, I'm still not sold on it yet like I was with Nemesis and Caravan (although I haven't seen a clean version yet so there's that). It is different though, and very fitting considering where Worlds will be. Now that he's got some breathing room I predict more tweaking from Shae-Lynn before the GPF. Rocketman, yeah that choreo sequence is :luv17:. I am so looking forward to the battle with Yuzu.

Jason - Jason's programs are gorgeous. Bar none. I know he wasn't at his best at SA because of his concussion and limited training time but they're still both beautiful programs (it's pretty even with the pops

). You know, at this point I really don't care if he gets a quad or not (although I do hope he gets one for his own personal goals. I saw him live at 4CC and he jumped that 4S right in front of me. It was a really good attempt, I'm confident he'll land it soon!). Jason epitomizes what figure skating should be - he feels the music, has amazing attention to detail, beautiful steps and spins. You're taken on a journey every time you watch him. SL is going to be a masterpiece when he performs it the way he wants to. Next up, NHK (I hope he breaks that NHK curse). His chance of making the GPF is pretty good right? (Considering what happened to Matteo, Boyang, and Shoma... oh my heart, Shoma...)

Vincent - Vincent performed at U.S. International Classic and Japan Open but I don't think either of those two performances were up to his standards. Music-wise I'm not a huge of fan of his SP (feels like some kinda of western hoe-down?) but I appreciate that it's different and Vincent looked like he was having fun performing it. His FS needs a bit more mileage before I can make a verdict but I think it could be a good program. Anyway I was really looking forward to seeing him on the GP (and I really think he had a good shot of making the Final) but I totally understand that school takes precedence. That does leave a lot of question marks though because I don't really know what his condition is or what his programs will look like by Nationals. Is he planning to enter another Senior B at least?

Tomoki - Tomoki won my heart with those Russian splits and Biellmann spins :love:

(and best KnC reaction last year!) so I was really looking forward to seeing what he could do on the senior stage. I also figured that Tomoki is a slow starter so I was trying to temper my expectations. And ugh that SP from IdF

I was scared to watch it but his performance was surprisingly not bad other than the jumps not being there (from the way he was setting up that 3A I knew he was going to miss it). I think he can really sell it once he's got the jumps in order. Great comeback in the FS though! The choreo is really complicated, perhaps a bit too much at this stage in his career, but I love that he's stretching himself artistically. Congrats to landing two 4Ts in the same program for the first time! If he can add that 4S too I think he can make a run for a world spot! Next stop NHK. I hope his family can watch.

Camden - Camden's got a quad!! (I was losing hope that I'd ever see the day). And his reaction to his SP score at SC was hilarious. Admittedly with how JWC ended last year I wasn't sure what to expect from him this year. But I was really impressed with both his SP and FS at SC (so much better than at ACI). Some small mistakes in his FS but he stayed on his feet and really wasn't far at all from the podium. I think both his programs are lovely and I'm glad the judges rewarded him for it. Although I thought his FS was supposed to be "Merry Christmas Mr. Lawrence?" When did it get changed to the "Last Emperor?" Next up CoC. I think he's got podium chances if he skates like that again. Except spins, Camden please work on your spins....

Alexei (or wait he prefers Alex right?) - Finally landed that 4Lo at US International Classic! .... And then he goes right ahead and tries the 4F at SA. Jackie Wong's tweets from SA practice were hilarious, he was apparently gesticulating wildly while Alex nailed those 4Fs in practice. A pity it went awry in both programs but I think it's only a matter of time before he lands it for real. And a program with a 4F AND a 4Lo..... look out world! Seems Alex is also gunning for that world spot. Speaking of programs, I love love both of them this year. Alex always struck me as that kind of "wild child" and I think both programs really show off that side of him really well. Kudos to Alex Johnson for doing such a great job. Next up CoR! I don't think he's got any podium chances but a part of me does wonder if Russia would regret releasing him if he did get on the podium....

Andrew - Okay Andrew is skating junior this season internationally (with some Senior Bs) but arguably he skates like a Senior man (and he's skating senior domestically). His programs are amazing! I can't believe that he self-choreographed both programs himself (like what?!). He's got the Jason-level of attention to detail and musicality. The only thing he doesn't have is.... jump consistency. I really hope he gets that sorted because he's too talented not to. I was really bummed he didn't make the JGPF this year. I'm glad he got a medal from Asian Open Trophy although his SB is still really low for GP assignments next year .... Fingers crossed for JWC (I assume he'll be sent to that). Will he also get another Senior B?

Jimmy Ma - Shoutout to Jimmy for finally landing his first ever quad in competition at Findlandia! I know it hasn't been the season he wanted but he can be proud of that. Also, thanks Jimmy for being the first to show the world that hip-hop on ice is cool (Turn Down for What?!)

Looking Ahead:
- Three more GPs to go! Can Jason make it to the GPF?
- Nationals is going to be amazing. The U.S. is lucky to have such a deep pool of men.
- Who do you think will get those 3 Worlds spots? Even with Vincent being a question mark I still think it will likely end up Nathan, Jason, and Vincent. Although stranger things have happened and the "young guns" are clearly leveling up.
- For that matter who's going to get sent to Junior Worlds? I would assume Andrew, Ilia, and Ryan Dunk? Or I guess they'll probably have the junior camp again.
- I don't see Nathan going to 4CC so I think that pewter medal is going to be really important again this year. Tomoki used that chance to great effect last year.
- Is the U.S. sending anyone to the Youth Olympics?

Okay now that I got that off my chest, back to lurking!

karne · Nov 4, 2019

1111bm said:
When some people feel the need to constantly point out every call or scoring, that they find questionable, whenever Nathan is concerned (what a coincidence!), but choose to be quiet or don't recognise whenever other skaters benefit from similar calls/scoring... I think it's clear there's bias and resentment behind such behaviour...

I wasn't even the one who brought it up. I simply responded to a post with the rulebook.

century2009 said:
Thank you. Really getting ridiculous for something so minor. It was not a fall but you know some people just like to be bias.

It was a fall, according to the rulebook.

el henry said:
Who are the "some people" that you believe to be biased? I would like to know before I determine if I need to answer. Thanks

I think you know, el henry. Because apparently, wanting calls to be made correctly and according to the rulebook makes one an anti these days.

babyskate · Nov 4, 2019

Makemi said:
So I've been lurking on GS for over a year now (discovered this board right at after the Olympics 2018 and have been visiting here pretty religiously nearly everyday since) and I've told myself I'd never make an actual account. But I finally felt compelled to make one today because I've been a bit sad about the state of this board and I especially don't know what happened to this thread.

A little background, when I first started coming to this board in 2018, my favorite thread was the U.S. Men's Thread (obviously because I am a huge fan of U.S. Men... I like to say that Jason's Riverdance brought me back to figure skating and Nathan made me stay). I really enjoyed all the discussion in the 2018-2019 thread. I'd never followed juniors before but because of all the talk about them in that old thread I started following the JGP and then I became smitten with Tomoki, Camden, Andrew T., and Alexei. If people hadn't discussed them there I would never have thought to find them. And now that I know that the JGP exists I made it a point to follow it religiously this season. So now I've also learned that Ilia Malinin is crazy good and Joseph Klein is adorable (I watch Joseph's short program from Lake Placid whenever I need a pick-me-up, it just makes me smile).

So...what happened to all that? There isn't much discussion going on and whenever I come in here now all I see is bickering (which seems to be anytime Nathan performs, which breaks my heart because I love him dearly). We're halfway through the season and instead of recapping the JGP, discussing performances and GP podium chances of the rest of our men, what'll happen at Nationals, we've instead had a page and half of Nathan's "fall/not fall" and prior to that, about two pages of Nathan's PCS. I know that people have their favorites, and they take issue with scoring (which I also don't understand - there's so much quibbling over points yet the general consensus is the "placements are correct." It's like if my friend owes me $5.04 and they only give me $5. I'm not going to argue over the missing 4 cents). Disagreements are going to happen but it's possible to have meaningful discussions without getting snarky, sarcastic, or defensive or pulling another skater down just to make a point (there's enough of that going on Twitter). I mean, I get that "The Edge" has pretty much turned into a cess pool but this thread doesn't have to follow suit.

FWIW, in an effort to steer discussion into something more productive, I'm going to give my mid-season thoughts. Because the U.S. Men is more than just Nathan and Jason.

Nathan - So Nathan's the first skater to qualify for the GPF! I was afraid he would try to "one-up" after what Yuzu did last week and I'm really happy he didn't and went along at his own pace. He's clearly building up his elements one at a time and I think the way he's doing it is pretty clever. I was a little worried with all the mistakes thus far but, now that I think about it, he usually doesn't skate clean until Nationals so I guess he's on track. He's probably annoyed at not landing that 4Lz-3T but kudos to finally nailing that pesky 4T-eu-3F. I'm pretty amused that he and Yuzu both coincidentally decided to go after that same combo this year. As for La Boheme, I'm still not sold on it yet like I was with Nemesis and Caravan (although I haven't seen a clean version yet so there's that). It is different though, and very fitting considering where Worlds will be. Now that he's got some breathing room I predict more tweaking from Shae-Lynn before the GPF. Rocketman, yeah that choreo sequence is :luv17:. I am so looking forward to the battle with Yuzu.

Jason - Jason's programs are gorgeous. Bar none. I know he wasn't at his best at SA because of his concussion and limited training time but they're still both beautiful programs (it's pretty even with the pops ). You know, at this point I really don't care if he gets a quad or not (although I do hope he gets one for his own personal goals. I saw him live at 4CC and he jumped that 4S right in front of me. It was a really good attempt, I'm confident he'll land it soon!). Jason epitomizes what figure skating should be - he feels the music, has amazing attention to detail, beautiful steps and spins. You're taken on a journey every time you watch him. SL is going to be a masterpiece when he performs it the way he wants to. Next up, NHK (I hope he breaks that NHK curse). His chance of making the GPF is pretty good right? (Considering what happened to Matteo, Boyang, and Shoma... oh my heart, Shoma...)

Vincent - Vincent performed at U.S. International Classic and Japan Open but I don't think either of those two performances were up to his standards. Music-wise I'm not a huge of fan of his SP (feels like some kinda of western hoe-down?) but I appreciate that it's different and Vincent looked like he was having fun performing it. His FS needs a bit more mileage before I can make a verdict but I think it could be a good program. Anyway I was really looking forward to seeing him on the GP (and I really think he had a good shot of making the Final) but I totally understand that school takes precedence. That does leave a lot of question marks though because I don't really know what his condition is or what his programs will look like by Nationals. Is he planning to enter another Senior B at least?

Tomoki - Tomoki won my heart with those Russian splits and Biellmann spins (and best KnC reaction last year!) so I was really looking forward to seeing what he could do on the senior stage. I also figured that Tomoki is a slow starter so I was trying to temper my expectations. And ugh that SP from IdF I was scared to watch it but his performance was surprisingly not bad other than the jumps not being there (from the way he was setting up that 3A I knew he was going to miss it). I think he can really sell it once he's got the jumps in order. Great comeback in the FS though! The choreo is really complicated, perhaps a bit too much at this stage in his career, but I love that he's stretching himself artistically. Congrats to landing two 4Ts in the same program for the first time! If he can add that 4S too I think he can make a run for a world spot! Next stop NHK. I hope his family can watch.

Camden - Camden's got a quad!! (I was losing hope that I'd ever see the day). And his reaction to his SP score at SC was hilarious. Admittedly with how JWC ended last year I wasn't sure what to expect from him this year. But I was really impressed with both his SP and FS at SC (so much better than at ACI). Some small mistakes in his FS but he stayed on his feet and really wasn't far at all from the podium. I think both his programs are lovely and I'm glad the judges rewarded him for it. Although I thought his FS was supposed to be "Merry Christmas Mr. Lawrence?" When did it get changed to the "Last Emperor?" Next up CoC. I think he's got podium chances if he skates like that again. Except spins, Camden please work on your spins....

Alexei (or wait he prefers Alex right?) - Finally landed that 4Lo at US International Classic! .... And then he goes right ahead and tries the 4F at SA. Jackie Wong's tweets from SA practice were hilarious, he was apparently gesticulating wildly while Alex nailed those 4Fs in practice. A pity it went awry in both programs but I think it's only a matter of time before he lands it for real. And a program with a 4F AND a 4Lo..... look out world! Seems Alex is also gunning for that world spot. Speaking of programs, I love love both of them this year. Alex always struck me as that kind of "wild child" and I think both programs really show off that side of him really well. Kudos to Alex Johnson for doing such a great job. Next up CoR! I don't think he's got any podium chances but a part of me does wonder if Russia would regret releasing him if he did get on the podium....

Andrew - Okay Andrew is skating junior this season internationally (with some Senior Bs) but arguably he skates like a Senior man (and he's skating senior domestically). His programs are amazing! I can't believe that he self-choreographed both programs himself (like what?!). He's got the Jason-level of attention to detail and musicality. The only thing he doesn't have is.... jump consistency. I really hope he gets that sorted because he's too talented not to. I was really bummed he didn't make the JGPF this year. I'm glad he got a medal from Asian Open Trophy although his SB is still really low for GP assignments next year .... Fingers crossed for JWC (I assume he'll be sent to that). Will he also get another Senior B?

Jimmy Ma - Shoutout to Jimmy for finally landing his first ever quad in competition at Findlandia! I know it hasn't been the season he wanted but he can be proud of that. Also, thanks Jimmy for being the first to show the world that hip-hop on ice is cool (Turn Down for What?!)

Looking Ahead:
- Three more GPs to go! Can Jason make it to the GPF?
- Nationals is going to be amazing. The U.S. is lucky to have such a deep pool of men.
- Who do you think will get those 3 Worlds spots? Even with Vincent being a question mark I still think it will likely end up Nathan, Jason, and Vincent. Although stranger things have happened and the "young guns" are clearly leveling up.
- For that matter who's going to get sent to Junior Worlds? I would assume Andrew, Ilia, and Ryan Dunk? Or I guess they'll probably have the junior camp again.
- I don't see Nathan going to 4CC so I think that pewter medal is going to be really important again this year. Tomoki used that chance to great effect last year.
- Is the U.S. sending anyone to the Youth Olympics?

Okay now that I got that off my chest, back to lurking!

What a great first post. Very comprehensive and insightful. Keep your impressions coming. I am in agreement with all your thoughts on the skaters you discussed.

yelyoh · Nov 4, 2019

Makemi so glad you shared your thoughts. Especially since I basically agree with everything you wrote ha ha. Keep it coming!!

ElSoteroLoco · Nov 4, 2019

Makemi said:
So I've been lurking on GS for over a year now (discovered this board right at after the Olympics 2018 and have been visiting here pretty religiously nearly everyday since) and I've told myself I'd never make an actual account. But I finally felt compelled to make one today because I've been a bit sad about the state of this board and I especially don't know what happened to this thread.

A little background, when I first started coming to this board in 2018, my favorite thread was the U.S. Men's Thread (obviously because I am a huge fan of U.S. Men... I like to say that Jason's Riverdance brought me back to figure skating and Nathan made me stay). I really enjoyed all the discussion in the 2018-2019 thread. I'd never followed juniors before but because of all the talk about them in that old thread I started following the JGP and then I became smitten with Tomoki, Camden, Andrew T., and Alexei. If people hadn't discussed them there I would never have thought to find them. And now that I know that the JGP exists I made it a point to follow it religiously this season. So now I've also learned that Ilia Malinin is crazy good and Joseph Klein is adorable (I watch Joseph's short program from Lake Placid whenever I need a pick-me-up, it just makes me smile).

So...what happened to all that? There isn't much discussion going on and whenever I come in here now all I see is bickering (which seems to be anytime Nathan performs, which breaks my heart because I love him dearly). We're halfway through the season and instead of recapping the JGP, discussing performances and GP podium chances of the rest of our men, what'll happen at Nationals, we've instead had a page and half of Nathan's "fall/not fall" and prior to that, about two pages of Nathan's PCS. I know that people have their favorites, and they take issue with scoring (which I also don't understand - there's so much quibbling over points yet the general consensus is the "placements are correct." It's like if my friend owes me $5.04 and they only give me $5. I'm not going to argue over the missing 4 cents). Disagreements are going to happen but it's possible to have meaningful discussions without getting snarky, sarcastic, or defensive or pulling another skater down just to make a point (there's enough of that going on Twitter). I mean, I get that "The Edge" has pretty much turned into a cess pool but this thread doesn't have to follow suit.

FWIW, in an effort to steer discussion into something more productive, I'm going to give my mid-season thoughts. Because the U.S. Men is more than just Nathan and Jason.

Nathan - So Nathan's the first skater to qualify for the GPF! I was afraid he would try to "one-up" after what Yuzu did last week and I'm really happy he didn't and went along at his own pace. He's clearly building up his elements one at a time and I think the way he's doing it is pretty clever. I was a little worried with all the mistakes thus far but, now that I think about it, he usually doesn't skate clean until Nationals so I guess he's on track. He's probably annoyed at not landing that 4Lz-3T but kudos to finally nailing that pesky 4T-eu-3F. I'm pretty amused that he and Yuzu both coincidentally decided to go after that same combo this year. As for La Boheme, I'm still not sold on it yet like I was with Nemesis and Caravan (although I haven't seen a clean version yet so there's that). It is different though, and very fitting considering where Worlds will be. Now that he's got some breathing room I predict more tweaking from Shae-Lynn before the GPF. Rocketman, yeah that choreo sequence is :luv17:. I am so looking forward to the battle with Yuzu.

Jason - Jason's programs are gorgeous. Bar none. I know he wasn't at his best at SA because of his concussion and limited training time but they're still both beautiful programs (it's pretty even with the pops ). You know, at this point I really don't care if he gets a quad or not (although I do hope he gets one for his own personal goals. I saw him live at 4CC and he jumped that 4S right in front of me. It was a really good attempt, I'm confident he'll land it soon!). Jason epitomizes what figure skating should be - he feels the music, has amazing attention to detail, beautiful steps and spins. You're taken on a journey every time you watch him. SL is going to be a masterpiece when he performs it the way he wants to. Next up, NHK (I hope he breaks that NHK curse). His chance of making the GPF is pretty good right? (Considering what happened to Matteo, Boyang, and Shoma... oh my heart, Shoma...)

Vincent - Vincent performed at U.S. International Classic and Japan Open but I don't think either of those two performances were up to his standards. Music-wise I'm not a huge of fan of his SP (feels like some kinda of western hoe-down?) but I appreciate that it's different and Vincent looked like he was having fun performing it. His FS needs a bit more mileage before I can make a verdict but I think it could be a good program. Anyway I was really looking forward to seeing him on the GP (and I really think he had a good shot of making the Final) but I totally understand that school takes precedence. That does leave a lot of question marks though because I don't really know what his condition is or what his programs will look like by Nationals. Is he planning to enter another Senior B at least?

Tomoki - Tomoki won my heart with those Russian splits and Biellmann spins (and best KnC reaction last year!) so I was really looking forward to seeing what he could do on the senior stage. I also figured that Tomoki is a slow starter so I was trying to temper my expectations. And ugh that SP from IdF I was scared to watch it but his performance was surprisingly not bad other than the jumps not being there (from the way he was setting up that 3A I knew he was going to miss it). I think he can really sell it once he's got the jumps in order. Great comeback in the FS though! The choreo is really complicated, perhaps a bit too much at this stage in his career, but I love that he's stretching himself artistically. Congrats to landing two 4Ts in the same program for the first time! If he can add that 4S too I think he can make a run for a world spot! Next stop NHK. I hope his family can watch.

Camden - Camden's got a quad!! (I was losing hope that I'd ever see the day). And his reaction to his SP score at SC was hilarious. Admittedly with how JWC ended last year I wasn't sure what to expect from him this year. But I was really impressed with both his SP and FS at SC (so much better than at ACI). Some small mistakes in his FS but he stayed on his feet and really wasn't far at all from the podium. I think both his programs are lovely and I'm glad the judges rewarded him for it. Although I thought his FS was supposed to be "Merry Christmas Mr. Lawrence?" When did it get changed to the "Last Emperor?" Next up CoC. I think he's got podium chances if he skates like that again. Except spins, Camden please work on your spins....

Alexei (or wait he prefers Alex right?) - Finally landed that 4Lo at US International Classic! .... And then he goes right ahead and tries the 4F at SA. Jackie Wong's tweets from SA practice were hilarious, he was apparently gesticulating wildly while Alex nailed those 4Fs in practice. A pity it went awry in both programs but I think it's only a matter of time before he lands it for real. And a program with a 4F AND a 4Lo..... look out world! Seems Alex is also gunning for that world spot. Speaking of programs, I love love both of them this year. Alex always struck me as that kind of "wild child" and I think both programs really show off that side of him really well. Kudos to Alex Johnson for doing such a great job. Next up CoR! I don't think he's got any podium chances but a part of me does wonder if Russia would regret releasing him if he did get on the podium....

Andrew - Okay Andrew is skating junior this season internationally (with some Senior Bs) but arguably he skates like a Senior man (and he's skating senior domestically). His programs are amazing! I can't believe that he self-choreographed both programs himself (like what?!). He's got the Jason-level of attention to detail and musicality. The only thing he doesn't have is.... jump consistency. I really hope he gets that sorted because he's too talented not to. I was really bummed he didn't make the JGPF this year. I'm glad he got a medal from Asian Open Trophy although his SB is still really low for GP assignments next year .... Fingers crossed for JWC (I assume he'll be sent to that). Will he also get another Senior B?

Jimmy Ma - Shoutout to Jimmy for finally landing his first ever quad in competition at Findlandia! I know it hasn't been the season he wanted but he can be proud of that. Also, thanks Jimmy for being the first to show the world that hip-hop on ice is cool (Turn Down for What?!)

Looking Ahead:
- Three more GPs to go! Can Jason make it to the GPF?
- Nationals is going to be amazing. The U.S. is lucky to have such a deep pool of men.
- Who do you think will get those 3 Worlds spots? Even with Vincent being a question mark I still think it will likely end up Nathan, Jason, and Vincent. Although stranger things have happened and the "young guns" are clearly leveling up.
- For that matter who's going to get sent to Junior Worlds? I would assume Andrew, Ilia, and Ryan Dunk? Or I guess they'll probably have the junior camp again.
- I don't see Nathan going to 4CC so I think that pewter medal is going to be really important again this year. Tomoki used that chance to great effect last year.
- Is the U.S. sending anyone to the Youth Olympics?

Okay now that I got that off my chest, back to lurking!

THANK YOU.....THANK YOU.....THANK YOU! Your post is exactly why i pretty much lurk on here also. I enjoy figure skating and ALL competitors. Sure, some more than others, but thats what makes this sport so amazing. I truly appreciate your post, and am thankful that there are other "lurkers" like myself who think the same as you do. You are appreciated! :pray:

moonvine · Nov 4, 2019

When oh when will NBC Sports Gold show the Regional with my beloved Andrew Austin? Please oh please skating gods let him make Nationals! I want to shower him with stuffies and have a sparkly shoe off with his coach!

moonvine · Nov 4, 2019

Makemi said:
So I've been lurking on GS for over a year now (discovered this board right at after the Olympics 2018 and have been visiting here pretty religiously nearly everyday since) and I've told myself I'd never make an actual account. But I finally felt compelled to make one today because I've been a bit sad about the state of this board and I especially don't know what happened to this thread.

A little background, when I first started coming to this board in 2018, my favorite thread was the U.S. Men's Thread (obviously because I am a huge fan of U.S. Men... I like to say that Jason's Riverdance brought me back to figure skating and Nathan made me stay). I really enjoyed all the discussion in the 2018-2019 thread. I'd never followed juniors before but because of all the talk about them in that old thread I started following the JGP and then I became smitten with Tomoki, Camden, Andrew T., and Alexei. If people hadn't discussed them there I would never have thought to find them. And now that I know that the JGP exists I made it a point to follow it religiously this season. So now I've also learned that Ilia Malinin is crazy good and Joseph Klein is adorable (I watch Joseph's short program from Lake Placid whenever I need a pick-me-up, it just makes me smile).

So...what happened to all that? There isn't much discussion going on and whenever I come in here now all I see is bickering (which seems to be anytime Nathan performs, which breaks my heart because I love him dearly).

What an awesome and insightful first post! Please do not go back to lurking. The way to turn things around is to post! If you really want to go down a rabbit hole start watching regionals and sectionals (something which, in addition to watching juniors, is something I said I would never do.). There are a lot of really nice people here. I have even met some in person! I never thought I would make friends with someone in Pennsylvania through the Christmas card exchange, but I did! I just ignored all that fall/didn’t fall stuff, because I’m not interested. I think the best way to handle it is to continue making substantive posts like you just did. In general I prefer to watch the men over the ladies, except for my beloved Gracie of course, and this thread is soooo short compared to the ladies thread.

el henry · Nov 4, 2019

Thank you @Makemi for an excellent first post. Post long and post often :clap:

A small point to answer your question: Alex K. does use Alex now, on social media, his website, etc. He seems to still be Alexei officially, but he now goes by Alex.

shine · Nov 4, 2019

el henry said:
Who are the "some people" that you believe to be biased? I would like to know before I determine if I need to answer. Thanks

Perhaps a couple on this board, but more prominently those in the wild wide west that is called social media. I’m not sure if you want to get there though.

karne said:
It was a fall, according to the rulebook.

Hey Karne, I would love to see the same level of outrage from you when Jason gets any kind of favorable calling. Unless you think he has never received one in his life. But I’m sure it’s too much to ask.

el henry · Nov 4, 2019

shine said:
Perhaps a couple on this board, but more prominently those in the wild wide west that is called social media. I’m not sure if you want to get there though.

....

Thank you for answering, that is why I ask. If I am Goldenskate, I want to engage folks on Goldenskate. If I want to engage in Twitter fan wars, I'll go on Twitter. And just for me, I find "some people" posts very confusing.

But, jumping off, to get back to our US men and the excellent start and questions prompted by @Makemi, Andrew T. may get another Challenger. Last year he skated in a spring Challenger, so we shall see. Fingers crossed :pray:

Tavi... · Nov 4, 2019

May I just say that I, too, really appreciated @Makemi’s post. It was thoughtful and appreciative of lots of the US Men. And I’d just like to echo one thing she said, which is about the tone of this thread. It used to be a fun place where all of us came to speculate all the US guys. We all had our favorites, but most people tried to be supportive of all of them. Somehow that changed and people started sniping at each other about their favorite skaters. I wish it would stop. I used to think of this board and especially this thread as a fun place to hang out and chat. Can it be again?

With that in mind, I’d like to ask your thoughts about our newest seniors:

Camden: He had a pretty darn good debut in Canada, but missed the podium. He landed his quad. A lot of people were favorably impressed with his 3As, skating, and artistry. He’s at China in a hard to assess field. Do you think he can medal? Do you think he’ll change anything he did in Canada? Do you think he SHOULD change anything? Has he turned a corner and left inconsistency behind?

Alex: He didn’t place very high at SA but he seems to be really committed to his programs (and especially his step sequences). He is majorly intense! How do you think he’ll do in Russia? Is he on an upward trend? What do you think he should change?

Tomoki: Rough SP in France, but he recovered pretty well in the FS and ended fifth. He did well at 4CCs last winter. He has some seriously over split Russian splits! Do you think it’s just nerves and a matter of becoming accustomed to competing as a senior? What do you think he needs to change, if anything? How do you think he’ll do at NHK?

ice coverage · Nov 4, 2019

Makemi said:
So I've been lurking on GS for over a year now (discovered this board right at after the Olympics 2018 and have been visiting here pretty religiously nearly everyday since) and I've told myself I'd never make an actual account. But I finally felt compelled to make one today because I've been a bit sad about the state of this board and I especially don't know what happened to this thread. …

FWIW, in an effort to steer discussion into something more productive, I'm going to give my mid-season thoughts. ...

Jimmy Ma - Shoutout to Jimmy for finally landing his first ever quad in competition at Findlandia! I know it hasn't been the season he wanted but he can be proud of that. Also, thanks Jimmy for being the first to show the world that hip-hop on ice is cool (Turn Down for What?!) …

Re the awesome Jimmy Ma :luv17:, I love this video of him speaking very thoughtfully on topics such as, "how he motivates himself, practice techniques and getting comfortable with the uncomfortable."

https://youtu.be/UuGvwIVF-SA (posted Oct 24 [recorded at U.S. Classic], 3:44)

It shows Jimmy in a different mode from his playfulness/humor/irreverence/"cool"-ness, all of which I also find endearing. :ghug:

Makemi, thank you very much for your entire post and for your effort to encourage productive discussion in this thread. :bow:

moonvine said:
…. Has he made the minimum TES for nats? ...

Good luck to Andrew Austin and everyone else at sectionals next week. :yay:

Sorry to say that I don't think that Andrew has the minimum TES for Nats yet?
He did not achieve it at regionals, and his best NQS overall score suggests that his total TES probably was not high enough.

moonvine said:
... If you really want to go down a rabbit hole start watching regionals and sectionals (something which, in addition to watching juniors, is something I said I would never do.). …

For those like me who just want to dip their toes into catching highlights from regionals/sectionals, USFS has been posting short recap videos this season:

Week One: https://youtu.be/ZdwDsu4b5m0 (Oct 11, 6:49)

Week Two:

https://www.facebook.com/usfigureskating/videos/505051980047373 (Oct 24, 6:11)
https://twitter.com/USFigureSkating/status/1187470528375746560

Week Three:

https://www.facebook.com/usfigureskating/videos/2928501120496393/ (Oct 31, 6:07)
https://twitter.com/USFigureSkating/status/1189995459143585793

(Possible that USFS did so in past seasons as well? I do not remember one way or the other.)

moonvine said:
... I never thought I would make friends with someone in Pennsylvania through the Christmas card exchange, but I did! ...

el henry said:
… But, jumping off, to get back to our US men and the excellent start and questions prompted by @Makemi, Andrew T. may get another Challenger. Last year he skated in a spring Challenger, so we shall see. Fingers crossed

No big whoop, but there are no spring Challengers. A non-Challenger spring international of course still would be a good opportunity.

ladyjane · Nov 4, 2019

Not American myself, but I do like the American men and the bickering about Nathan earlier on really put me off. I like Nathan (and really enjoy the skating rivalry with a certain Japanes skater whom I also like a lot - not the fan discussions about who thought first of a certain combination. Really), adore Jason and am a big fan of many others. Thinking about Alex as Dracula (and what a wonderful FP that is), artistic Camden (and isn't it great he now can jump a quad in competition), another artistic giant called Andrew, a wonderful skater called Vincent (whose FS at the WTT I just can't stop watching), Jimmy, Tomoki, the list goes on. Thank you by the way Makemi for bringing this thread back to what it was and should be: a celebration of all American male skaters!

NanaPat · Nov 4, 2019

I saw Camden in person last year at the JGPF and again at Skate Canada. The improvement was remarkable, and the quad(!) was great. It was so nice to see him do well.

When Nam skated (last), we knew that either he would be on the podium or Camden would. Was glad for Nam, but sorry about Camden. But Camden is young and hopefully has many years of success ahead of him.

moonvine · Nov 4, 2019

ice coverage said:
Good luck to Andrew Austin and everyone else at sectionals next week. :yay:

Sorry to say that I don't think that Andrew has the minimum TES for Nats yet?
He did not achieve it at regionals, and his best NQS overall score suggests that his total TES probably was not high enough.

For those like me who just want to dip their toes into catching highlights from regionals/sectionals, USFS has been posting short recap videos this season:

Week One: https://youtu.be/ZdwDsu4b5m0 (Oct 11, 6:49)

Week Two:

https://www.facebook.com/usfigureskating/videos/505051980047373 (Oct 24, 6:11)
https://twitter.com/USFigureSkating/status/1187470528375746560

Week Three:

https://www.facebook.com/usfigureskating/videos/2928501120496393/ (Oct 31, 6:07)
https://twitter.com/USFigureSkating/status/1189995459143585793

(Possible that USFS did so in past seasons as well? I do not remember one way or the other.)

Well, if you are specifically interested in men only, unfortunately many regionals can be watched in less than 30 minutes. I watched the ones that are available so far and one had 2 men. I don't think any had more than 4 men. I am amazed we have the quality of male skaters that we do have with so few men in the pipeline. To that end, I'd like to see this minimum TES ditched. If a person can skate well enough to finish 4th or better in his or her region, let them skate at Nationals! I don't know why this change has happened. It can't be for TV because TV is not covering the lower flights of skaters (other than NBC Sports Gold). I understand minimum TES for Worlds - I sat through 41 or 43 ladies shorts, can't remember which, waiting for my Gracie to skate, and if there were no minimum TES it would have been many more. But this is US Nationals. There are only going to be x number of men or ladies or pairs or dance teams regardless (however many sectionals there are x 4). Let the people skate.

Andrew skated at a summer comp this year. I am not sure if he did in previous years. Last I heard he was attending school in Colorado and facetiming with his coach - if so I wish he had gone to Collegiates. There were only 4 senior men at Collegiates.

2019-20 U.S. Men's Figure Skating

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el henry

Go have some cake. And come back with jollity.

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All Hail Queen Gracie

moonvine

All Hail Queen Gracie

el henry

Go have some cake. And come back with jollity.

shine

el henry

Go have some cake. And come back with jollity.

Tavi...

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moonvine

All Hail Queen Gracie

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