2014-2015 GPF Short Dance 12/12

[Alba]

Which is actually a big jump. Even if they place last, they'll get 180 points more than their CoC Ranking points. If they manage to come 5th, it's 233 points higher, which is considerable if you look at how close some teams are in the world standings (http://www.isuresults.com/ws/ws/wsdance.htm).

Oh that's great.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

True. I'm just a bit sad they didn't skate their best here, for my pleasure.

They truly need to climb up a bit because skating early it hurts.

I cut them some slack because they're a new pair. And frankly they're incredibly lucky to be here with British C/B's meltdown in their second GP.

 

[Alba]

I cut them some slack because they're a new pair. And frankly they're incredibly lucky to be here with British C/B's meltdown in their second GP.

I know, it's not about the placement. I don't care about that at this stage.
Anyway, hope they do great tomorrow. Although I don't like that FD. :hopelessness:

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

I know, it's not about the placement. I don't care about that at this stage.
Anyway, hope they do great tomorrow. Although I don't like that FD. :hopelessness:

Agreed. Same with P/C, who hopefully have a great FD and pull up to bronze, otherwise this could completely kill their momentum this season.

That being said, I would have ranked P/C's lower than the Shibs even with a clean skate. The Shibs sold theirs and had a more solid Paso. There's something very "un-Paso" about P/C and C/B's short dances... maybe the styling, the distance between the skaters (P/C were not nearly close enough as they should be), etc.

As cliche as it might have been, W/P had the best "look" -- with his stature and her dress, he literally looks like a matador flinging his cape around himself. Maya didn't exactly have the right ferocity, but they still sold it better than C/B and P/C.

 

[Alba]

Agreed. Same with P/C, who hopefully have a great FD and pull up to bronze, otherwise this could completely kill their momentum this season.

That being said, I would have ranked P/C's lower than the Shibs even with a clean skate. The Shibs sold theirs and had a more solid Paso. There's something very "un-Paso" about P/C and C/B's short dances... maybe the styling, the distance between the skaters (P/C were not nearly close enough as they should be), etc.

As cliche as it might have been, W/P had the best "look" -- with his stature and her dress, he literally looks like a matador flinging his cape around himself. Maya didn't exactly have the right ferocity, but they still sold it better than C/B and P/C.

I agree. :thumbsup:
I know what you mean with "un-paso" thing about P&C. I love the program but it is a bit "dark", if you know what I mean. C&B, I don't know what Paso that is. But I don't like them in general, so that might not help my judgment.

 

[elif]

According to the ISU judges' evaluation procedure, judge #1 for Chock and Bates will be evaluated for an "anomaly." For the short dance a judge is allowed a 5-point discrepancy (the "corridor") from the average of the panel in total GOEs and separately a 5-point discrepancy for total PCSs. This judge has a total of 4.39 points over the average in GOE, so just barely escapes official scrutiny on the GOEs.

For PCSs, however, judge #1 is uniformly too high by a total of 5.17 points. According to the ISU rules this will automatically be reviewed by members of judging oversight committee and, unless they side with the odd judge against the majority, the committee is supposed to issue an "assessment." Three assessment during the year and the judge faces the possibility of penalties and sanctions.

This actually happens. About ten times a year, or so, for ice dance, I think. Less frequently for pairs and singles.

Ilinykh/Zhiganshin's third judge have some strange scores too. He or she could be outside of the corridor as well.

 

[Alba]

Ilinykh/Zhiganshin's third judge have some strange scores too. He or she could be outside of the corridor as well.

6s for interpretation and SS!

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

6s for interpretation and SS!

The 6.50/6.75 were pretty harsh, but Zhig did have some stumbles, and while simply skating around, which would adversely affect SS and PE. If anything, ice dancers should be more penalized when they make errors like that... otherwise you get things like C/B being in 2nd.... or V/M being in 2nd at the GPF a few years ago when they fell in their OD.

It's really got to be rectified.

 

[lmarie086]

The 6.50/6.75 were pretty harsh, but Zhig did have some stumbles, and while simply skating around, which would adversely affect SS and PE. If anything, ice dancers should be more penalized when they make errors like that... otherwise you get things like C/B being in 2nd.... or V/M being in 2nd at the GPF a few years ago when they fell in their OD.

It's really got to be rectified.

I agree. And considering that C/B are nowhere near the same caliber team as V/M, it stands out especially IMO.

 

[Alba]

The 6.50/6.75 were pretty harsh, but Zhig did have some stumbles, and while simply skating around, which would adversely affect SS and PE. If anything, ice dancers should be more penalized when they make errors like that... otherwise you get things like C/B being in 2nd.... or V/M being in 2nd at the GPF a few years ago when they fell in their OD.

It's really got to be rectified.

I'm all for penalizing errors, but 6s? I mean where this judge is going to put them with a clean skate, 7.50 max?
I don't think that's fair either. Especially when you see some weak couples in that aspect getting 8.50 like C&L, and others.

 

[slider11]

One judge gave C/B two 10.00 :shocked:

Yes, I see the two 10's for Chock and Bates! How do you fall and are still considered perfect?

For me, Weaver and Poje captured the dance. It was traditional but it was strong and dynamic. Chock and Bates have an innovative SD but I just don't feel the same engagement that I get from Weaver and Poje. I feel that the Shibs are making some ground in their slippery slope to regain their top 3 status. This dance is not their strength but today's was good. I LOVE Gilles and Poirier. They are edgy and different and I think the cape was totally cool. Piper's eye makeup is a bit strange but I love the costume construction and the funky things Paul does to twirl his cape! Not Papadakis and Ciszeron's day. Elena and Ruslan are doing just fine for newbies . They should be pleased with their strong beginning.

 

[Barb]

Maia and Alex were amazing , everyone looked nervous and tentative but Shibs skated so secure and detailed, they deserve better scores.

 

[Mrs. P]

Maia and Alex were amazing , everyone looked nervous and tentative but Shibs skated so secure and detailed, they deserve better scores.

FWIW, it was the TES scores that casued them to score lower. The TC seemed really strict. Nobody got level 4, even Weaver and Poje only got level 3. Their PCS was actually great considering they were skating in an earlier group.

 

[peg]

FWIW, it was the TES scores that casued them to score lower. The TC seemed really strict. Nobody got level 4, even Weaver and Poje only got level 3. Their PCS was actually great considering they were skating in an earlier group.

Yup. Their PCS were less than a point behind C/B.

 

[lmarie086]

I thought the Shibs were a tad undermarked today. Have to say I've been a bit meh on them for awhile, but their SD is one of my favorites of the season, and it's their best one in some time. They had a quiet intensity today that came across well. I hope they continue to build because I far prefer them to Chock/Bates (who have been overscored all season IMO....and Weaver/Poje as well to some extent). I see that Chock/Bates are a good team, but I don't think they're as good as their scores indicate. And today they should have finished lower I think. I got absolutely nothing out of their SD. It's fine to be innovative, but there's just no Paso feel to their SD, and I find it dull. Especially today I didn't get any sense of chemistry between them.

My poor French babies They'll bounce back - it's a shame they didn't have a stronger performance but the pressure won't be as high for the FD now I think. And they're so young, and still developing as a team; it's okay that they aren't winning everything right away. That's better in fact I think.

Elena and Ruslan continue to impress me. Shame about the multiple little errors today, but with each outing they still do look more confident, and I just think this partnership is doing so much for Ruslan. Really like them.

Oh, have to say! I think the costume change for Alex Shibutani was just right. A much better look for him, and it helped give a different feel to the program.

 

[Orange Cat]

Just looked at the protocol sheet and there was a scoring error for the Shibs - the judges gave them +2s and +3s for the twizzles but the GOE is only 1.46??

In any case I think they could and should have scored above Chock/Bates. Aside from Katilyn and Andrew setting a new SB and coming out on top, I found the SD full of highly unexpected mistakes.

 

[Alba]

I thought the Shibs were a tad undermarked today. Have to say I've been a bit meh on them for awhile, but their SD is one of my favorites of the season, and it's their best one in some time. They had a quiet intensity today that came across well. I hope they continue to build because I far prefer them to Chock/Bates (who have been overscored all season IMO....and Weaver/Poje as well to some extent). I see that Chock/Bates are a good team, but I don't think they're as good as their scores indicate. And today they should have finished lower I think. I got absolutely nothing out of their SD. It's fine to be innovative, but there's just no Paso feel to their SD, and I find it dull. Especially today I didn't get any sense of chemistry between them.

My poor French babies They'll bounce back - it's a shame they didn't have a stronger performance but the pressure won't be as high for the FD now I think. And they're so young, and still developing as a team; it's okay that they aren't winning everything right away. That's better in fact I think.

Elena and Ruslan continue to impress me. Shame about the multiple little errors today, but with each outing they still do look more confident, and I just think this partnership is doing so much for Ruslan. Really like them.

Oh, have to say! I think the costume change for Alex Shibutani was just right. A much better look for him, and it helped give a different feel to the program.

:thumbsup:

 

[Mrs. P]

Just looked at the protocol sheet and there was a scoring error for the Shibs - the judges gave them +2s and +3s for the twizzles but the GOE is only 1.46??

In any case I think they could and should have scored above Chock/Bates. Aside from Katilyn and Andrew setting a new SB and coming out on top, I found the SD full of highly unexpected mistakes.

The scale of values is such that all +3 would only result in 2.00 overall. 1.46 for twizzles is excellent! I will have to take a look, but I think that might be the most +GOE (and overall) received for twizzles this season.

 

[MaKaM]

But do the judges even know how to judge PCS? I am not an expert follower but just looking at the scores for the Shibs for Interpretation/Timing:

8.00 9.00 8.75 9.25 8.00 7.25 9.00 8.25 7.00

That is a 2.25 point range with 10 increments between them. What is the max spread supposed to be before someone gets called out as either cheating or incompetent? I haven't seen the performances so I can't say if the high numbers are more correct or the lower numbers, but clearly the judges don't know either or the spread wouldn't be so wide. The other PCS marks show similar variation. I/Z have similarly strange marks from the 7s to the 9s in the same category. And while I know they aren't new skaters, they are a new team so some judge is saying that they have the same skills as the long-standing teams. Do they? Because then the talking heads need to stop forcing the "It takes a new team time to gel. Davis and White and Virture and Moire have been skating together since the beginning of time, that's why they are so far ahead of the rest!" line. Other skaters scores are more consistent across the board and between components which frankly is more troubling--all teams have equally good skating skills as their interpretation skills? Not a single team is a 9 pointer in choreography but only a 6 or 7 in Footwork? Once you hit that 7ish level in one thing, you are that in every thing?

In conclusion: I think the judging system sucks. At least in gymnastics, you know that the gymnast got 8.9 because of three small steps, one large step, a leg separation, and a fall out of a spin and can add them up and get approximately the same number the judges gave. This seems like they just throw numbers around (or have pre-decided what level the skater is at) and then just give those scores.

 

[GF2445]

Looking at the protocols. The levels awarded were fair.
Nothing too extravagant
Again no Level 4 for the not touching step sequence and some big reduction of levels in the Paso Doble Sequence.

The judges with the GOE and the Presentation Scores??? A bit overboard both ways but still in the range of reasonable.