2015 US Nationals Senior Ladies FS Jan 24

[Miss Ice]

Karen is so underrated. In my opinion, she was the best of the night. But everyone's attention was on Ashley and Gracie. :no: I wasn't impressed with Ashley's performance and Grace was okay. But Karen was amazing and only 15. So much natural talent.

Well, she did get the standing ovation. IMHO, she was also the best of the night. Could anyone please upload her gala?

 

[Blades of Passion]

She mentioned in an interview that her back is "geriatric" from doing layback spins for over a decade, so I don't blame her for trying to avoid that in her FS.

But she does do the layback in her FS, LOL?

I'm genuinely curious; what are your favorite programs of hers, choreographically? I really love this FS for her, and would put it up with Samson & Delilah as my favorite of hers.

Well, I think she's yet to have a program that puts it all together exactly.

Black Swan would have to be the best though, the spiral sequence is superb and that program is the most cohesive. Her 2010 Nationals program is great except for the footwork sequence, which is really jarring. Samson&Delilah got better when she brought it back, but was still somewhat lacking in stand-out movements.

 

[mustafakent]

Uploaded a couple of Smucker's performances:

Ashley - Ariana Grande
http://youtu.be/AP52kzy3I4c

I love Ashley's new dress.

 

[Crossover]

I prefered Cesario's SP to her LP at Nationals, but there is something intriguing about her Carmen. Most of your criticism is true. However, there's something innately 'Carmen' about Cesario. She can stand at centre ice, do nothing, and I kinda buy it.

Whereas with Hongo, she has to work at being Carmen. I eventually grew to like her LP (at Nationals specifically), and she has a more powerful ending than Cesario. But I can see why others adore Cesario's Carmen, but think Hongo needs something else.

As a side note, I actually tend to enjoy most of the Carmens (except Mura and Lysacek :hopelessness

Perhaps, this is a matter of taste regardless of Cesario's technical issues. I think that her SP has a more organized layout and choreography than her empty LP. She has a personality on the ice, for sure, but I wonder if she performs a program to a less dramatic music, she could get the same response from the audience. The Carmen character is generally good to draw attention from the audience such as Mirai's splendid Carmen 5 years ago (oh time passes so quickly). However, Cesario has used Carmen pieces for 4 years including her junior periods and I'm not sold by her performance yet. It is a pity that Cesario still needs to supplement her free program in both technical and artistic aspects if she wants to step up to the next level.

I do believe that Carmen is more effectively delivered by ladies single or paired skaters, but I enjoyed Mura (mainly delivering Escamillio, the bullfighteer) and Lysacek's Carmen (seems like depicting Don Jose in anguish) due to their constant variations and demanding techniques although I'm no fan of both skaters. I hope Cesario expresses some softness in her acting as Carmen, not just all about fierceness and flaunting. As for Hongo, her Carmen may be not convincing to many people yet, but considering this season is her first senior debut, I'm interested in watching how she grows.

 

[Crossover]

Karen is so underrated. In my opinion, she was the best of the night. But everyone's attention was on Ashley and Gracie. :no: I wasn't impressed with Ashley's performance and Grace was okay. But Karen was amazing and only 15. So much natural talent.

She is not underrated at all! She successfully debuted in her first senior stage and became a bronze medalist at 15 years old. What an achievement for her! She shined splendidly that day and got media attention than anyone else who previously competed together with her in the junior level discipline at US nationals. We all know how Ashley has been treated since last year, so the battle between Ashley and Gracie was a full of drama and story.

 

[jenm]

What a great skate from Ashley! This is perhaps her best performance and also my most favorite LP/program this season. You go Ashley! If she skates like this at Worlds, she could win. The Russian skaters are all technicality good but IMO they still don't have the maturity that Ashley has.

She's undeniably the rightful winner but the scores, OTOH, is utterly ridiculous. I'll say it's 15 points higher than she actually deserved/earned. What's up with the scores these days. Inflation everywhere.

 

[satine]

I am the only one I know so far who predicted the top three correctly. Way back to several weeks ago, too.

:dance: :dance: :dance:

WAY TO GO KAREN!!!

I got the whole podium right too (even pewter) arty:

 

[CutieP]

I got the whole podium right too (even pewter) arty:

Ugh! You damn Geniuses

 

[apgold]

How long 'til this thread hits 100 pages?

Anyway, other than Mirai's unfortunate accident, I am pretty happy with the results. Ashley got her redemption and killed it, Gracie held up well, despite the pressure and we have a new superstar in Karen. I also think Polina held up well despite her growing pains and I think we'll see a much more mature skater next season. I am also happy that Samantha maintained her position and that Mariah Bell was in the top 6. I've loved Mariah's skating for a while now, so to see her skate so well and with joy was wonderful.

Other than the top 6, it was nice to see Christina Gao get some redemption in her FS (I wonder if this is her last nationals) and Tyler Pierce seems to be a force to be reckoned with in the future. I wonder how long she can keep her Yulia like I spin. Sorry that Amber Glenn's new FS didn't go well, but I think she'll get it together soon.

 

[satine]

Ugh! You damn Geniuses

If it makes you feel better, this is the first time I've ever gotten the top 4 in a predictions game (outside of Dance/Pairs)

 

[leafygreens]

Nobody deserved to win more than Ashley deserved and somebody's still talking about something that Ashley can't do anything.But I don't give a damn.I knew that haters gonna hate that program.

Why is it that if someone finds a braggadocious, cocky, arrogant personality unappealing, that person is called a "hater"? I would say that any athlete who has this type of personality is themselves a hater, against potential fans.

 

[Mrs. P]

Why is it that if someone finds a braggadocious, cocky, arrogant personality unappealing, that person is called a "hater"? I would say that any athlete who has this type of personality is themselves a hater, against potential fans.

Sure, that personality may be a turn-off for some.

But FWIW, my non-skater fans don't really take issue with Ashley's personality or her approach to interviews. In fact, many of them, like that woman who work the article for Hello Giggles, the lifestyle website that actress/singler Zooey Deschanel co-founded, see Ashley's personality and words as someone who is driven and determine.

It's really a YMMV type of thing.

That said, the word "hater" is thrown around too much. Usually it's an easy way to get out of an argument with someone with an opposing view.

 

[leafygreens]

That said, the word "hater" is thrown around too much. Usually it's an easy way to get out of an argument with someone with an opposing view.

I agree.

 

[jenaj]

I focused on transitions because you keep bringing them up to explain why you disliked Ashley's performance. I still don't know if you want more/better transitions from her or fewer, because you've criticized her from both directions on that point. I also don't think anyone would disagree that performance/execution instantly becomes much easier when you don't have to deal with IJS requirements for spins and footwork.

The transition score is one of the worst aspects of the IJS. Is it based on difficulty? If so, it should be part of the technical score. Does it involve "clear steps?" If so, it overlaps with GOE, resulting in skaters getting rewarded, or penalized, twice. And does anyone really know what "clear steps" means? Why should skaters get points for adding meaningless moves into their programs? Again, if the issue is difficulty, make it part of the technical mark. And if the transitions really add to the presentation or artistry, reward them in performance/execution.

 

[Sandpiper]

Perhaps, this is a matter of taste regardless of Cesario's technical issues. I think that her SP has a more organized layout and choreography than her empty LP. She has a personality on the ice, for sure, but I wonder if she performs a program to a less dramatic music, she could get the same response from the audience. The Carmen character is generally good to draw attention from the audience such as Mirai's splendid Carmen 5 years ago (oh time passes so quickly). However, Cesario has used Carmen pieces for 4 years including her junior periods and I'm not sold by her performance yet. It is a pity that Cesario still needs to supplement her free program in both technical and artistic aspects if she wants to step up to the next level.

I do believe that Carmen is more effectively delivered by ladies single or paired skaters, but I enjoyed Mura (mainly delivering Escamillio, the bullfighteer) and Lysacek's Carmen (seems like depicting Don Jose in anguish) due to their constant variations and demanding techniques although I'm no fan of both skaters. I hope Cesario expresses some softness in her acting as Carmen, not just all about fierceness and flaunting. As for Hongo, her Carmen may be not convincing to many people yet, but considering this season is her first senior debut, I'm interested in watching how she grows.

I agree that Cesario's SP is better organized than her LP.

That being said, I think we have very different tastes on Carmen. It seems like you value a variety of movements and techniques (TR?) and I value hitting the notes of the music (INT?). Hongo's had a bit of both, so we each found something to enjoy. I thought Mura's Carmen was nonsensical--music cuts in the middle of a spin, choreography that makes no sense, crescendos in the music where nothing happens in the program... Lysacek just came across as... frustrated. Not "frustrated in love," but "frustrated 'cause I lost my car keys."

I've really come to like Mura for his big jumps and solid projection, so his Carmen did grow less annoying over the season. But I still can't say I'm a fan of the program (nor his POTO :hopelessness: ).

 

[ekatsk8]

I liked Karen Chen's skating most of all. Mariah Bell has such a lightness about her skating that is special… hoping she'll move up in the future. Gracie still has potential but not soup yet, and was hoping it would have happened for her (same could be said of Polina). It seems to me that while Gracie got more consistent, her jumps aren't as "wow" to watch as they were prior to her being coached by Frank (though she certainly improved other aspects of her skating with him). I've come to appreciate Ashley more, even though she was never one of my favorites. Like many of the skaters who stay competing for a long time, she's developed a nice line on the ice.

 

[Mathman]

The transition score is one of the worst aspects of the IJS. Is it based on difficulty? If so, it should be part of the technical score.

It is part of the technical score. The technical score is TES plus SS and TR. The performance aspect (what used to be the "second mark" under 6.0 scoring) is covered under P&E, CH, and INT.

The old scoring system was split along the lines "technical" versus "artistic." The new system threw that out. Now it its "individual elements" versus "what you do throughout the program." The T in TES stands for "total," not "technical."

 

[Alchamei]

But she does do the layback in her FS, LOL?


Well, I think she's yet to have a program that puts it all together exactly.

Black Swan would have to be the best though, the spiral sequence is superb and that program is the most cohesive. Her 2010 Nationals program is great except for the footwork sequence, which is really jarring. Samson&Delilah got better when she brought it back, but was still somewhat lacking in stand-out movements.

Didn't she mean the Biellman spin and not the layback itself?

And about her programs, when she puts it together I like them, but usually it takes a lot of time till they grow on me.

Her Black Swan is the program that everyone adores, but I didn't like it that much when I saw it for the first time. And still not. I think it comes from my perspective - when I imagine someone skating to Black Swan I think of baletiv and soft skating - and Ashley is not exactly this type of skater. It was rather a powerful and athlectic performance. It fitted her, but it hasn't grown on me yet.

Samson and Delilah was a good program with a opportunity for Ashley to show up, but I hadn't really remembered it until 2014 Worlds, when she gave a good performance. I think it didn't have the spark that Black Swan had for people.

Romeo and Juliet was probably a mistake for her in the Olympic season. I remember almost nothing of it and as I said before, she is not that type of a lyrical skater who can pull this off.

Moulin Rouge seemed like a disaster to me at first. I completely hated it, the music, the drama, the packaing and Ash had problems to skate it cleanly. However, this program has been definietly growing on me since the GPF and the Nationals confirmed it. I found myself loving the part until the second spin. Then it's too much drama, slow steps sequence... But it might be the program that could win a Worlds medal.

 

[jenaj]

It is part of the technical score. The technical score is TES plus SS and TR. The performance aspect (what used to be the "second mark" under 6.0 scoring) is covered under P&E, CH, and INT.

The old scoring system was split along the lines "technical" versus "artistic." The new system threw that out. Now it its "individual elements" versus "what you do throughout the program." The T in TES stands for "total," not "technical."

Well, then it should be part of the elements score. Or they should go back to the technical vs. artistic/performance. And kudos to the ISU for letting everyone, including commentators, know that the first mark isn't technical! I'm sure the all the fans know it, too.

ETA: This explanation of the scores was so far off from my understanding that I did a quick search. The technical score, for qualification purposes, is the TES score. That is how the ISU refers to it. The technical callers and referees do not judge SS or TR. Everyone refers to the first mark as the technical score and I have seen no correction from the ISU. Given the common understanding of TEC, I still think that if TR is going to be judged based on difficulty, it should be part of the first mark. It already overlaps with GOE, so maybe it should just be make one of the features the judges are supposed to consider.

 

[Mathman]

And kudos to the ISU for letting everyone, including commentators, know that the first mark isn't technical! I'm sure the all the fans know it, too.

I'm doing my best to spread the word.