2016 US Intl FS Classic Mens SP

[4everchan]

Oh I don't know that there's really anything to it - I just personally found it interesting. I would like to think that judges do judge based on what's on the ice, but as we clearly see in the numbers Mrs P gave us, what each judge sees is filtered through a personal lense that may skew their scoring. I think that's clear with the Serbian judge - he scored Jason substantially lower than the other judges did, and he scored Adam higher than the other judges did (actually maybe he was tied on one or two of Adam's scores, I don't remember). What was he looking for - or at - that others weren't? Same with the Aussie judge - her scores for Adam were clearly way out of line. So what was she seeing that others weren't?

As to which of the two skated better today, it's hard for me to say because my feed froze for both of them, and the clip posted for Jason isn't good quality so it's hard to tell if he was really as sluggish as he appears there. Adam does have an engaging quality and does a lot of things well but there are some things I don't love about his skating - among other things, his crossovers!

Not to be totally US-centric, I am really glad to see that Nam looks happier and is skating far better than he was even a couple of months ago. And I loved Elladj - I thought he was really underscored.

bold 1) just like us fans ? To me PCS has often been just a way for the judges to say out loud who they like best... very little objectivity here... i wish there would be another system to measure PCS... there could be points given to speed/height for instance which could be measured electronically, or percentage of multidirectional/one foot skating versus basic steps... etc... yeah... the PCS as we know it now, IMHO is just silly.

bold 2 ) i thought Elladj was badly scored for what he offered as well... He did very well IMHO... And i agree.. Nam seems to be on the way to recovery. Love the kid.

 

[Mrs. P]

Not Only is Jason's Quad so close...I've been at the venue all the last few days and he's been absolutely NAILING the quad in practice, including the SP program run through yesterday. Just beautifully done. I caught that one and another beautiful one from practice on vid....so it is NOT that he can't do them. I didn't know that until I saw it with my own eyes.

Thanks for the live report (and the vids)!

Ice Network has a story posted:http://web.icenetwork.com/news/2016/09/15/201600836 and Jason talks pretty extensively about his quad attempt:

While he didn't land the quad in today's performance, Brown still counts his outing as a success.
"Every event is a step forward," Brown said. "Today I landed my quad in the six-minute warmup, which I didn't do at Lombardia [Trophy]. Now I need to learn how to warm it up and still land it when I'm not the first skater. I need to practice warming up, taking that little break until my turn and being ready to hit it, again. I learn something every time I put it out there, and after the warmup I had today, I'm walking away so proud and excited for the steps I'm taking."

I thought Mura's comments were really interesting:

"The numbers are OK for a competition this early in the season," Mura said. "The jumps were good, but I was skating so slow. I needed more speed and much sharper movements to have a better performance."

So maybe the judges sensed that? Still 36 seems excessively low even considering the above.

 

[chloepoco]

Can't believe Mura's low PCS score! It wasn't his best performance, but nonetheless, he deserved more than a 36!

 

[Violet Bliss]

Mura got docked for Punishable Costume Selection.

 

[Crossover]

36 PCS for Mura?? :noshake:

Justice for Mura and his Diagonal Fringe! :dev2:

No, I just assume that Mura is underscored in PCS. Because he usually is.

Protocols are out: http://www.usfigureskating.org/leaderboard/results/2016/24347/SEGM003.html

Nothing from Mura got downgraded. The judges just hit his PCS… hard. They must hate his costume, too.

lol, mura 5+ points behind on pcs? with a 36? Who are the judges kidding? Unless the only criteria for components was costumes.

Yeah, Mura's PCS was definitely way too low. I'd dock him on transitions, maybe, but he has great speed and power. I'd give him at least a 39 or 40.

Watching mainly the skating and the programs:
I tried to understand why Mura's PCS is low and I see that he does not show off enough skating skills, a lot of movements, yes, but mostly two foot skating, even if alternating two foot skating. There is not a distinct character to the program, unlike, e.g. Adam, and even Eladj who placed lower. Whether his PCS is underscored, especially relative to the others, it's the judges' call and for them to justify, not me.

Can't believe Mura's low PCS score! It wasn't his best performance, but nonetheless, he deserved more than a 36!

Mura got docked for Punishable Costume Selection.

I'm also joining the club titled "Justice for Mura's PCS". Other than his hairstyle (well..his costume didn't bother me much any more after his shocking outfit at Skate America), I like the program.

 

[HanDomi]

Mura got -0.3 for quad, I would actually go even with -1 or -2. He had absoulately 0 steps to it. I think he was a bit underscored on PCS and other a little overscored

 

[karne]

There is quite a bit of out-of-corridor scoring here. Utterly fascinating. And in a surprise to noone, the U.S. judge is a total homer -- just didn't expect it to be that blatant! And are we sure the Australian judge isn't karne in disguise?

Not so. Otherwise Jason would be much more than two points ahead of Ross in PCS.

If I were Raf, I'd be giving Miss Australia a call about my student. Her scores for Adam border on Criminal...

Why? Because she didn't fall for the finger-wagging and vogueing as a program?

Last year you complained all season long that Adam kept attempting a 4Lz without it being fully rotated. So, I'd a thought you'd be happy one way or the other.

This is the same skater who once rolled his eyes sarcastically at the cameras because he got beaten (after one of his signature planned downgrades) by a skater without a quad....

I suppose it becomes tiresome to hear people pick at Jason for not having a quad, when he is now closer to landing one in competition than Adam has EVER been. But it's somehow considered okay by the fanbase at large for Adam to keep in his planned downgrade falls. There just seems to be a wee bit of a double standard at play when it comes to Adam and Jason's quad attempts.

 

[Li'Kitsu]

+1 for the "Justice for Mura!" club! :shock2:

Really, I get he could perform better and still needs a bit more speed and conviction, but his PCS compared to the other guys are nothing but a joke. Two much two-footed skating? That didn't stop Adam from scoring 0.8 points higher in SS alone either. And I really like the overall program! With a bit more time, I'm sure Taka will nail it.
Also... I don't get why some people don't like the costume I'd give him bonus PCS for it! The fact that he can even look hot in that... or is that just me? Okay.

It was also my first time sitting through that Sam Smith wailing for Jason... I like the SP, and his skating is gorgeous as ever. And he was so close to rotating that quad! It's nearly there!

As for Adam, the step sequence was tons of fun. Outside from that, there is basically no skating and just posing. Same complains for me as always.

Best music choice: Elladj. Awesome!

 

[sneakers]

wow... i think mrs p has a point... karne was judging this lol

can we call Karne now ?

 

[karne]

can we call Karne now ?

Trust me, I would rather have been judging this than sitting at work untangling messes and desperately refreshing GS/twitter for Team Australia news!

 

[Tavi...]

bold 1) just like us fans ? To me PCS has often been just a way for the judges to say out loud who they like best... very little objectivity here... i wish there would be another system to measure PCS... there could be points given to speed/height for instance which could be measured electronically, or percentage of multidirectional/one foot skating versus basic steps... etc... yeah... the PCS as we know it now, IMHO is just silly.

bold 2 ) i thought Elladj was badly scored for what he offered as well... He did very well IMHO... And i agree.. Nam seems to be on the way to recovery. Love the kid.

I don't think I'd like to see an electronic system to judge PCS. Whatever the official "line" is, I think PCS is an attempt to quantify the elements that make up "artistry." It shouldn't just be a check off the box kind of thing. I'd much rather see two separate judging panels - one for PCS and one for GOE - so the judges have more time to focus and get it right. And then some kind of action or consequences if you're consistently way out of line with other judges. For example, if the Serbian judge is pretty much in line with the other judges for all competitors except Adam and Jason, that might suggest that he really just loves Adam and hates Jason. Whereas if he's off for everybody, he might need more training or whatever.

 

[Meoima]

Mura was so underscored in PCS. I mean seriously 7 point gap in PCS? Judges have no shame.

 

[yyyskate]

watched Adam SP. I like it. interesting choreo. one choreo idea I have never seen before, that is, the way his first 3f-3t jumping pass matching music. is the sweeping move of free leg from 3 turn into his 3F matched the swoosh note of music. very effective and creative.

 

[yyyskate]

very impressed by mura's SP.

 

[skylark]

watched Adam SP. I like it. interesting choreo. one choreo idea I have never seen before, that is, the way his first 3f-3t jumping pass matching music. is the sweeping move of free leg from 3 turn into his 3F matched the swoosh note of music. very effective and creative.

Yes! I noticed that too. It's exactly the sort of unquantifiable element that makes the skating, the skater and the music all an integrated whole. Adam is one of the skaters whose entire programs aim to create that sustained spell that makes a figure skating program magical. I'm not saying he always succeeds, but that is his aim. His worlds FS attained it, and I think this SP is already going that direction.

When a commentator says "this should/will be a signature program for" (a skater), it's that magic that makes the difference.

 

[skylark]

I suppose it becomes tiresome to hear people pick at Jason for not having a quad, when he is now closer to landing one in competition than Adam has EVER been. But it's somehow considered okay by the fanbase at large for Adam to keep in his planned downgrade falls. There just seems to be a wee bit of a double standard at play when it comes to Adam and Jason's quad attempts.

Is it a double standard among the fandom as a whole, or is it individual people who love Jason's skating, or love Adam's?

For instance, you keep characterizing Adam's 4Lz as "planned downgrade falls." With a little adjustment for tone of voice, one could say that about Jason's quad attempts over the past year and a half. But you're not going to characterize Jason's tries that way.

I think they're both adding quad attempts consistently and persistently, having faith that the process and the repetitions under all conditions (practice, ideal, not ideal, competitions) will eventually get the results they're after, and give them the confidence that they can do it in competition.

 

[skylark]

Just in case my following the either/or conversation gave the wrong impression, I am both a Jason Uber and an Adam Uber.

 

[Heleng]

Loved Elladj's SP! Really hoping he does well this season and makes it to worlds.

 

[StitchMonkey]

I suppose it becomes tiresome to hear people pick at Jason for not having a quad, when he is now closer to landing one in competition than Adam has EVER been. But it's somehow considered okay by the fanbase at large for Adam to keep in his planned downgrade falls. There just seems to be a wee bit of a double standard at play when it comes to Adam and Jason's quad attempts.

slight caveat, in 2013 at NHK Adam did have two fully rotated, but negative GOE, but stood up on 4Ts. So it is not fair to say Jason is closer than Adam has ever been. Jason's 4T is closer than Adams 4Z has ever been, yes absolutely, but not quad in general. Strangely he had a quad and sorta lost it.

 

[el henry]

Don't know about the cover, but I do love Elladj and thus SP, I like.

But last year Elladj *won* a Challenger, I had high hopes, and the rest of the year:noshake: unfortunately, his inconsistency equals his charm. Fingers crossed for this year!