2017-18 State of U.S. Men's Figure Skating

[Jammers]

They are making their money.
Nathan and Shiffrin today - both the same victim to the media hysteria. OMG! The best skier of all time! She is locked for gold! She will make a history! Mikaela Shiffrin will bring home another gold medal!
It was obvious the girl was already pushed beyond her mental limits. But they kept pushing and pushing! And right before the run she broke and vomited. Couldn't handle it anymore.
Nathan was the same. Nathan Chen! The future champion! The same hysteria.

The media is the most destructive force in the US.

Give it a rest. If you can't handle the pressure then you should never have become a world class athlete to begin with. Athletes in other countries face the same kind of pressure and don't gripe about it and suck it up. Hanyu is like the Beatles in Japan and has a mob of fans following him yet look it how he performed. Michael Jordan faced insane pressure all during his career in a much bigger sport and look at how he handled it.

 

[Mrs. P]

I do fault NBC a lot for this. There have been signs all year that he’s been struggling under the weight of expectations. He underperformed at Worlds. He was undefeated this season, but his wins were sloppy wins, and came in part due to mistakes by - or the absence of - his competitors. He’s changed his layouts and jumps constantly this season.

I’m not saying that boot problems didn’t impact him at Worlds or that he didn’t deserve his wins. I am saying that by ignoring the whole picture - and the fact that this was his first Olympics, which are reputedly a competition like none other - NBC did him a disservice in its quest to find compelling narratives and drum up audience interest. Even former Olympians - Johnny, Tara, Michael Weiss, to name a few - who should have known better - have ignored the inconsistencies and predicted him to win gold.

Simply saying, he’s immensely talented and has medal potential, but it’s his first Olympics, would have been accurate and kinder to him. Instead NBC has pushed the narrative that Nathan is the favorite to win gold here, the first US man to do so since Evan Lysacek. And just to make sure we got the connection, Vera Wang was brought in to design his costumes. Then they added stories from his 3rd grade teacher and former ballet master to underline the narrative of how special he is. An entire nation, USFS, his former teachers: that’s a lot of people to worry about letting down.

Hanyu’s undoubtedly under a huge amount of pressure, too, especially because he’s defending a title, but he’s older and more experienced than Nathan, this is second Olympics, and because of the injury and the fact that the media haven’t permitted to talk to him for months, he’s perhaps been better able to handle it.

Wishing all the best to Nathan (and Hanyu, and all our guys) tonight.

I think they could have toned it down a bit for sure, but at the same time Raf made Nathan available for all those media opportunities. Brian Orser, as others noted, really limited media access to Yuna in 2010 -- and if you want to talk about media pressure and letting an entire nation down, THAT WAS IT. At least Nathan shared the U.S. spotlight with others who were medal contenders. Yuna was kinda it -- save for some speedskaters -- and especially in figure skating back in 2010 and she handled the pressure beautifully to win the OGM. I' don't want to put all the blame on Raf though.

I don't think the media hype helped and was problematic, but I agree with andromache that wasn't the only issue. Raf seemed to hint at it earlier in the season, which I wonder was his way of letting the media know about things, but yet it was kinda lost because Nathan had such a strong Grand Prix season. I agree with you there were problems in the fall, especially with the constant layout changes in the free skate. I'm not sure why he started doing that with his short program as well.

But I hope he comes back in the free too.

 

[andromache]

I’m not saying that boot problems didn’t impact him at Worlds or that he didn’t deserve his wins. I am saying that by ignoring the whole picture - and the fact that this was his first Olympics, which are reputedly a competition like none other - NBC did him a disservice in its quest to find compelling narratives and drum up audience interest. Even former Olympians - Johnny, Tara, Michael Weiss, to name a few - who should have known better - have ignored the inconsistencies and predicted him to win gold.

This is the consequence of success in sports. Sure, it can vary from sport to sport. Once every four years (at least in the US), figure skaters have to deal with it. Since it so rarely happens, they don't get many opportunities to adjust to the level of attention - Japanese skaters, on the other hand, are much more used tot he media attention since figure skating is so popular there. But it is what it is.

NBC's job is to develop compelling narratives that will interest US viewers that know little about the sport. It is the responsibility of the athlete and their team to be mentally and physically prepared for anything, and I think Raf failed Nathan here, possibly because he was overconfident in Nathan's technique and mental strength to handle the layout changes. Either that or there are issues behind the scenes that have been forcing the layout changes and those issues have not been disclosed - in which case, Nathan/his team are still responsible - if you're dealing with some crap that will prevent you from winning OGM, telling the media about it will probably stop them from hyping you as OGM.

I love Nathan's skating and what he has the potential to do when he skates well, so it's not like I'm a Nathan-hater. He's young and he'll learn something from this experience. Raf will too. After tonight, I hope Nathan can relax for a few weeks and figure out what went wrong.

 

[Ophelia]

Part of being a champion is standing up under the scrutiny of the media and the hype train. Sure, the pressure got to Nathan, but I'm not holding the media exclusively responsible. It's part of being an elite athlete and comes with the territory. He and Rafael have been playing with different layouts all season, so he wasn't able to rely on his training to help him overcome his nerves.

Raf has also been very vague about some struggles they've been having? I'm not sure how real that is or not.

People just want another reason to be mad at NBC (as if they don't give us enough other reasons).

Yes, part of being a champion is standing up to the scrutiny and attention, but I don't think Chen was prepared for the scrutiny, and part of that fault lies with his coaching team, who should be more experience in these matters. I feel like Raf just let him be caught up in the media whirlwind, and could've/should've shielded him much better. For example, why was Chen allowed to hold a media conference 22 hours before the SP?

Look at Orser. He managed Kim and manages Hanyu and Fernandez very well in that regard. Hanyu has ghosted for the last few months, and if I were Chen, I would've pulled a disappearing act after Nationals too and resurface for Olympics.

 

[Manitou]

Give it a rest. If you can't handle the pressure then you should never have become a world class athlete to begin with. Athletes in other countries face the same kind of pressure and don't gripe about it and suck it up. Hanyu is like the Beatles in Japan and has a mob of fans following him yet look it how he performed. Michael Jordan faced insane pressure all during his career in a much bigger sport and look at how he handled it.

It's absolutely true. I agree with you. But agreeing with you still doesn't change the reality that there are incredibly talented and hard working athletes who are potentially capable of making the history, but they don't because they can't handle media pressure. Yulia and Gracie - just to start with.
There are also others who thrive on media. Media is their energy and life - Lindsey Vonn for example. They cannot live from behind, they must be constantly upfront, constantly on headlines. I cannot think of a skater from this category, maybe the skating world is different.

 

[andromache]

It's absolutely true. I agree with you. But agreeing with you still doesn't change the reality that there are incredibly talented and hard working athletes who are potentially capable of making the history, but they don't because they can't handle media pressure. Yulia and Gracie - just to start with.
There are also others who thrive on media. Media is their energy and life - Lindsey Vonn for example. They cannot live from behind, they must be constantly upfront, constantly on headlines. I cannot think of a skater from this category, maybe the skating world is different.

Lol maybe Adam Rippon? At least during these Olympics. He's not a medal threat so he's able to just enjoy his performances and soak up the publicity. And there's a legitimate reason to do so - setting yourself up for success after retirement.

But in general I think choosing to spend a lot of time training in an ice rink means you're the type of person who isn't interested in the constant attention of media.

 

[Mrs. P]

Speaking of Adam Rippon. The New York Times did a story about his abs.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/16/...ng-abs.html?src=twr&smid=tw-nytimes&smtyp=cur

Part of me is a bit bothered by this -- isn't a mixed message to print a story about him on a starvation diet and then another about his abs? Not to mention that it seems a bit objectifying?

 

[lappo]

Give it a rest. If you can't handle the pressure then you should never have become a world class athlete to begin with. Athletes in other countries face the same kind of pressure and don't gripe about it and suck it up. Hanyu is like the Beatles in Japan and has a mob of fans following him yet look it how he performed. Michael Jordan faced insane pressure all during his career in a much bigger sport and look at how he handled it.

I agree about the pressure but I also think that there are several ways that can be adopted to ease some of the pressure for the athletes and make them work better and focus. For example I think BOrser is really good at it, I remember that Yuna at the height of the hype was in no way accessible for interviews and that it was Brian himself who did a press conference on her behalf. Also, Yuzuru has been MIA for all these months, same with Javi. The three of them both train(ed) abroad and that make things easier. But, if I have to give Eteri credit, she must have learned her lesson with Yulia in Sochi because she has been able to shield both Evgenia and Alina way better, despite them both being Olympic podium. I don't say that the athlete is not responsible in handling pressure but also those around him/her have to cooperate in order to reduce it to the minimum possible; I'm not sure if Nathan's team/agents have exactly taken the right route in this.

 

[andromache]

Speaking of Adam Rippon. The New York Times did a story about his abs.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/16/...ng-abs.html?src=twr&smid=tw-nytimes&smtyp=cur

Part of me is a bit bothered by this -- isn't a mixed message to print a story about him on a starvation diet and then another about his abs? Not to mention that it seems a bit objectifying?

1. The abs article specifically mentions how he now adheres to much healthier and protein-rich diet. Protein = muscle = abs. They're definitely trying to make a connection between being healthy and being hot, which is positive messaging, in my opinion.

2. It's a little objectifying (but not as bad as I expected). But actually get into the details of how darn hard figure skaters work off ice is really interesting! The article was super informative overall.

 

[Mrs. P]

I think it's more the GIF closeup of the abs that bothered me. I found that kinda unnecessary. I think you can have talked about all the things he mentioned without having a zooming close-up of the abs.

 

[snowflake]

Could Nathan had done it the Yusuru way? I mean stay away from all attention and media. Or is he too dependent of commercial income?

 

[Putina]

Speaking of Adam Rippon. The New York Times did a story about his abs.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/16/...ng-abs.html?src=twr&smid=tw-nytimes&smtyp=cur

Part of me is a bit bothered by this -- isn't a mixed message to print a story about him on a starvation diet and then another about his abs? Not to mention that it seems a bit objectifying?

The presumption has to be that he loves to be objectified. The other story was about him wanting to be cuddled. I see no mixed messages.

 

[skylark]

Where did this come from??
https://www.cnn.com/videos/world/20...-skater-usa-winter-olympics-2018-orig-nws.cnn

An enchanting one minute and 32 seconds of Adam skating and narrating.

"When I am having a really great performance, I have almost nothing going through my mind. It just kind of goes by in a flash." https://www.cnn.com/videos/world/20...-skater-usa-winter-olympics-2018-orig-nws.cnn​

Jane Torvill said the same thing. As have other skaters, and performers of all kinds.

As to where it came from? CNN series: Pyeong Chang 2018: Aiming for Gold. Aiming, not expecting.

 

[RobinA]

Yes, part of being a champion is standing up to the scrutiny and attention, but I don't think Chen was prepared for the scrutiny, and part of that fault lies with his coaching team, who should be more experience in these matters. I feel like Raf just let him be caught up in the media whirlwind, and could've/should've shielded him much better. For example, why was Chen allowed to hold a media conference 22 hours before the SP?

Look at Orser. He managed Kim and manages Hanyu and Fernandez very well in that regard. Hanyu has ghosted for the last few months, and if I were Chen, I would've pulled a disappearing act after Nationals too and resurface for Olympics.

I'm more and more impressed with Orser. His skaters are lovely. His results speak for themselves. You don't see a lot of attitude when a skater has a bad day. Just seems like a nice guy, super supportive and turning out beautiful skaters.

 

[el henry]

Can I take a minute to break my shoulder patting myself on the back? And that is total irony, just in case someone takes it seriously....

I said last year, I think Raf is probably a fine coach for skaters like Ashley and Adam, who know their own limits and their own minds and can push back, but for a younger skater? But the narrative then was that Nathan was some super-human cool customer and Raf the coach of the year for perfecting so many jumps for him. And now the Olys.....

Let me be clear: I am gutted for poor Nathan. All this has shown is that he is a human, an 18 year old boy, and ice is slippery. No one is perfect, no has all the answers, and I hope Nathan comes back with a grand and glorious skate. And that he does what is best for his future.

Although I would love to see him with some Rohene choreo

 

[skylark]

Although I would love to see him with some Rohene choreo

Kori Ade has said that one of Rohene's main talents is to see in a skater something that no one else saw, and then choreograph to that and bring it out.

That's a perfect definition of what Shae-Lynne Bourne did for Nathan with his Nemesis program. That's one reason so many viewers and fans got whiplash, as if sayiing "hunh? when did Chen suddenly become an artist?"

My opinion, Nathan should stick with Shae.

 

[Mrs. P]

Well this is kinda fun:
https://twitter.com/britneyspears/status/964576755112710144
‏

Hey @Adaripp.... I just wanted let you know that I am a fan, I am not in denial, and that you are THE MOST FUN!! Keep making us all smile at the #WinterOlympics and good luck today ⛸

 

[zanadude]

This was the first time in 82 years that an American male figure skater did not finish in the top four. Two of them didn't have the skills to compete, and one of them didn't have the heart. A lot of reflection and soul searching is necessary to prepare for 2022.

 

[Lester]

I think it is time for a coaching change for Nathan. I am not sure Raf can do much more for him.

 

[chuckm]

This was the first time in 82 years that an American male figure skater did not finish in the top four. Two of them didn't have the skills to compete, and one of them didn't have the heart. A lot of reflection and soul searching is necessary to prepare for 2022.

What????

In 2014, the top finish by a US skater was 9th: Jason Brown. Jeremy Abbott was 12th.

This time, Nathan Chen was 5th and Vincent Zhou was 6th. That is a HUGE improvement.