2017 CS Lombardia Trophy Mens LP

[MaiKatze]

I really like Shoma, but I have to say, I prefer his original Turandot program. I'm sad they got rid of the fast part in the middle for his footwork sequence, as it helped give the program variation, whereas currently, the music feels slightly repetitive during the footwork sequence. Maybe I will change me mind later in the season, but gosh, his original Turandot was so good, why change it?

Interesting perspective. I think a lot of thought went into this program. It's not a simple repeat. The recording, the singer is different and the cut is different. For the skating it is more technically challenging than Turandot 1.0 was for him. He gave an interview after the FS where he said how much harder it is. I think it's not wrong to think of this Turandot as a different program altogether, a program he has to grow into as the season progresses. For me, honestly, it is better this way. I love the middle footwork sequence in Turandot 1.0, I agree with you on this. But I wouldn't have wanted to watch the same debutant program Shoma had as a 17 year old now. We can watch the old Turandot, as he performed it clean at the GPF for example, as often as we want. This is new. This is better. It's harder and therefore it is less playful. Shoma said he isn't satisfied! A lot of things still don't work as they should. He himself knows right now, it's quite far from perfect. Shoma has the ability to make anything work. His programs grow as time goes by. I'm positive that at the Olympics THIS Turandot will give us all the goosebumps we deserve! :

 

[NoNameFace]

well...I see that ugly fest has started right off the bat. Reading this post-competition discussion – being majorly over other things than this very competition and performances themselves – I have two thoughts, I'll say them aloud once and for all, then post my potato, vomit-style review and go on with life.

Firstly – I kind of do not understand using other skater's scores/performances/results from past season(s) as referencial/comparison points for those we've seen at Lombardia. I have this 'rule' to not ever use one skater's score/performance et all as a pattern for another one, especially if they not competed in the same event AND especially if different seasons are brought on the table. For me, all skaters and their respective performances should be referencial points for themselves, because it is one skater, one development path, one scoring trend, one results record. Mixing it with different skaters, their programs, scores, etc. is in 99% personally inflicted and often creates a false picture of that particular skater/his performance being referrenced. Not even mentioning that people who are doing such 'criss-cross' analysis often use one, particular point of reference, usually in favour of their favourite even if he is not even used in comparison himself. This is a new season – an Olympic one to add – and for me it's the entirely new chapter for every skater, it's useless to make those comparisons not even seeing ALL programs yet presented for this very season. It's almost like an invitation to the argument and making a stale tea for purpose, which I do not support, but – 'different strokes for different folks' like they say.

Secondly – it's kind of funny to see how various skaters are compared to each other using particularly chosen criteria, obviously in favour of one of them, to make less about another one. I do understand that for skaters' ubers this one very skater is untouchable, always on point regarding all aspects possible and others – no matter what they'd do – will pale in comparison. But what I do not understand is to choose a point of comparison subjectively and them to make 'objective' and definite analysis out of it. It's actually similar to Jason's case when he's called a non-valuable skater/competitor who does not deserve his placements, because he has no quad – yeah, just put him on the rear end in FS food chain and let others eat him alive. Having quads is definitely a must to compete for medals, a prerequisite to bid big stakes, but it is not a mandatory requirement nor the only point of reference to be used in figure skating to compare skaters (despite wish of many). There are many other platform and perspetives to see skaters through and if someone has a selected view of things, then do not blame skaters for what they are. Speaking of Jason's example – he wont' be anyone's puppet to play, risk his health just for sake of humoring some people. Again like above – 'different strokes for different folks', if someone has no quality you desire in a skater personally – it does not mean that this skater is worthless or should be picked up for that, it's not a crime, but if you say so – please complain to the judges for scoring such skater in a certain way and do not make this stale tea again, because it's not tasteful anymore.

And yes – I am a potato viewer, with very little grasp of rules, GOE, COP, scores, technique, edges and so on. But I am willing to educate myself au grace all people here whose knowledge, experience and opinions are much broader and educated than mine. Saying that, I'm willing and open to do that when I see plain civil honesty and tolerance, because I'm not feeding myself on a beef. And I totally expect for some to come after me for those thoughts – it's never a pleasant situation for me (already been here and done that), but is it possible to make everyone think and feel figure skating in the same way? I don't think so. Peace for all and keep on watching figure skating like I'm planning.

To the merit (if anyone's interested after first round) - I am over the moon for Brendan! Apart from the 2nd jump he really fought for everything, keeping up with the music. His skating is very 'compact' and efficient for me: he's not 'OMG wowzers' in every skating area, but hs solidity and confidence with whom he's performing and selling what he has are admirable . About the program...from the very first part of it I could not shake the impression that this is a hidden/lost Amodio program: this 'exotic' flare in music, a bit unkept choreo with room for improvisation and loud expression, it's just not Brendan for me, BUT kudos to him for giving out his est effort. Still, I would love to see him in something more jazzy/retro-like, Sinatra, movies with Gene Kelly, this kind of charming elegance climate. But nonetheless – amazing start of the season!

I'm crazy about Deniss FS and this was actually a very good showing of it for the first time. Like in SP, Deniss really kept the engagement and control over his expression and movement plus he flirted a bit with this 'cheekiness' of music and dance-y vibe, which was beyond adorable for me. I feel like Stephane did a magnificent job to put a program like that for Deniss – the choreography is very musical, well-accentuated with all technical elements, builds nicely between parts and allows Deniss to perform a little and improvise. Love that 3Loop right after step sequence, nice arm movement, all the easiness and effortless going into jumps. The thing to work on is definitely to have more focus on jumping elements or to have more balance between overall performance and technical success of it. I do think that Deniss tends sometimes to 'space out' during the program and to hesitate/second guess himself – when he will get more mileage with the program I hope he'll get more confident with his jumps, because I wish him nothing but success. Another thing I loved about the choreography is the fact that Stephane showed off Deniss' versatility in his musicality, placing step sequences in different tempos plus not making the whole thing too 'muscled' and athletic, respecting Deniss sensibility and expression– it really show how clever coach he is for Deniss, you take the best of a skater and shows it off to the max.

Jason really transported me into another place and dimension by his performance. And it was an amazing place to be. You see, his whole case, his presence in figure skating world, competitive side of it has so much 'educational' value for all and helps to be more open, more tolerant and more sensitive for different ways of expression in skating. He dares everyone to focus on elements, on components people pay very little attention to – he makes the smallest things to pop in the most beautiful, intricate way. And I feel that he does not want to completely change people's perception forcefully about his way of skating, performing and expressing – he just want people to expand their thinking and try to understand frm where he goes. This program is all about detail and meaning behind every movement done – it tells the story, shows emotions, but with very sensual, unspoken and mysterious way for me, as there is some piece to guess, to find and explore after music finishes. And Jason's musicality, the way his body is so sensitive over every sound makes the performance just flow and last. Two definite highlights from the sea of all that grace and magnificence were: 2A and the whole transition after it into step sequence and then ½ Lo sequence RIGHT with the music and then amazing spiral/arabesque sequence. It takes a real effort and huge talent to create something that sublime yet powerful and seductive in reception, but moreover – it takes right skater, with certin amount of sensibility and care over every aspect of the performance to make the program work its magic in reality. Everything spoke to me and woke my senses: the softness of hands, the airy flow between elements, all extensions, elegance of costume, honesty and rawness in expression. I'm just glad being able to see and feel that beauty in its pure form, feeling it deeply and realizing that this is Jason's strenght and character behind it.

And Shoma's FS to finish – while I do see that the program is less busy with 'embelishments' and transitions that 2 seasons ago, I totally see and understand why (at the same me having a right to be disappointed a bit about that and in advance – I know, Shoma also does not owe me ANYTHING for the record). This season is totally different than a previous one with 'Turandot' FS and Shoma is now in different place, with different perspective, drive and purpose and this program, constructed in the way it is, reflects on that. To accomodate 5 quads, other technical elements and still have the performance it takes a lot of thought and effort. Wth such 'big' music, theme he could just get into fancy costume and focus on those quads, but similarly to his SP I do feel like Shoma let the music carry him and empower the performance he produced instead of being just a known background to feel confident with jumps (I am fully aware that by saying such things, I'm giving his non-enthusiast a weapon to use, but he and I will live with that). I do think that the program, the performance of it resonated very loudly and was impactful, but in a very different way that e.g. Jason's FS as their way of movement and expressing themselves are different, but equally impressive for me. One based on sublime and delicate cooperation, blending music and movement, another using 'big' music for equally big skating. And speaking of 'big skating' I'll get called on that one for sure) – the thing is for me with Shoma that I value the most, is his power of transformation on ice. He truly can 'magnify' his statue, his presence and impact by is skating, the way her performs. Tis 'Turandot' FS is for me not the most innovative one, like breaking new grounds in vertical perspective, but it sure is a powerful piece with more of 'horizontal' value as for accomodating Shoma's purposes and desires.

 

[Tavi...]

General comment regarding two foot skating, provided for information only and not directed at any particular skater:

One of the criteria for skating skills under the IJS is "mastery of one foot skating."

https://www.usfigureskating.org/content/JS08A-Programcompexplan.pdf
http://www.usfigureskating.org/content/ISU program-component-chart_sandp-and-id_08-16.pdf

 

[Li'Kitsu]

Firstly – I kind of do not understand using other skater's scores/performances/results from past season(s) as referencial/comparison points for those we've seen at Lombardia. I have this 'rule' to not ever use one skater's score/performance et all as a pattern for another one, especially if they not competed in the same event AND especially if different seasons are brought on the table.

The ISU has stuff like PBs and highest corrent scores - so you think those concepts are inherently wrong as well? The judging will always have a personal influence from one judging panel to the other, but rule changes (like the change in GOE value) aside, the scores actually should be comparable between competitions. I agree with the way the judges are scoring it doesn't make too much sense, but I fail to see what is wrong with people who do compare between comps.

For me, all skaters and their respective performances should be referencial points for themselves, because it is one skater, one development path, one scoring trend, one results record. Mixing it with different skaters, their programs, scores, etc. is in 99% personally inflicted and often creates a false picture of that particular skater/his performance being referrenced.

Uhm, people being compared to each other is what is happening in a competition. None of them skate in a vacuum. Everyone will be compared to others, all the time

...please complain to the judges for scoring such skater in a certain way and do not make this stale tea again, because it's not tasteful anymore.

Well, give me a number and I will
Honestly, I get that reading the same criticism over and over gets frustrating, but if it is still valid, then that is what it is. Yuzu got a lot of rightful criticism for his program repeatings, and I expect that to be a thing throughout the whole season. And it will be valid criticism for the whole season, so people are free to repeat it and repeat it as well.

Also, calling people 'ubers' is also, well... and you're wordings made it pretty clear which specific posters you meant. OTOH, I wonder if this victim playing was so popularized by Miss Swift or if that was a thing before.

 

[NoNameFace]

The ISU has stuff like PBs and highest corrent scores - so you think those concepts are inherently wrong as well? The judging will always have a personal influence from one judging panel to the other, but rule changes (like the change in GOE value) aside, the scores actually should be comparable between competitions. I agree with the way the judges are scoring it doesn't make too much sense, but I fail to see what is wrong with people who do compare between comps.

I did not say that there is something wrong altogether in comparing scores across competitions - I just said that I do not understand the purpose of it, especially with so much complaint expressed over judging and especially if we take different season. And again - it is just my view on this aspect, scores, PBs ARE indeed a referencial points to use, but just not for me, since I'm not much of 'points person'.

Uhm, people being compared to each other is what is happening in a competition. None of them skate in a vacuum. Everyone will be compared to others, all the time

of course, but let me then re-phrase my previous point from which you've taken this particular thought - comparing skaters' scores in one competition, in the same season is definitely the most 'valuable' for me, but there were already comparisons made all over skaters and seasons, I addressed mainly this topic. And yet again - I am fully aware that skaters are here to be compared to each other, that's the basic point of every competition: to award them scores and 'compare' them by places, my point of view about this comparison thing is just more one skater-centric ( I am that ignorant and weird, but this is my trademark).

Well, give me a number and I will
Honestly, I get that reading the same criticism over and over gets frustrating, but if it is still valid, then that is what it is. Yuzu got a lot of rightful criticism for his program repeatings, and I expect that to be a thing throughout the whole season. And it will be valid criticism for the whole season, so people are free to repeat it and repeat it as well.

Also, calling people 'ubers' is also, well... and you're wordings made it pretty clear which specific posters you meant. OTOH, I wonder if this victim playing was so popularized by Miss Swift or if that was a thing before.

as for judges' number - if I had one, I would definitely made the first call before sharing

apologies if 'ubers' word used offended you or anyone else - in the context of my whole point it supposed to referrence those who support fiercely and are committed to one single skater, my intentions were definitely not negative despite many ppls' beliefs. And for the record - I based this whole point from where you (yet again) have taken a piece and interpreted it in your way (to which you have a full right) on this very thread and discussion placed there with no specific posters in mind, more like specific opinions said, emotions/feelings already expressed, now repeated again. It's really not my fault that those opinions/statement are coming from the same people, I'm sorry. And where exactly in my post is 'victim playing' part? This was supposed to be my and mine only outlook and opinion on things happening there - some people are bothered by Jason's lack of quad, some are bothered by Yuzuru's programs, some are bothered by Shoma's twofoot skating, I OTOH just commented on all those sentiments expressed lately.

 

[Icey]

Shoma is only 19. Has plenty of time to improve what needs improving.

 

[Yatagarasu]

That doesn't change the fact that Uno is still the reigning Japanese champion. Nor does it mean that Hanyu would have necessarily defeated him, even if he had been healthy.

Also, in case you missed it, in their most recent head-to-head, Uno came out on top - by over 18 points.

Anyways, hopefully both skaters will remain healthy and we get many a head-to-head, so that nobody has to trivialize either skaters' victories/achievements by pulling the whole "Uno won only because Hanyu wasn't there/Hanyu won only because Uno wasn't there" card.

Ah CSG, sometimes at first glance at your posts, one would think you're such a teddy at heart. So cuddly and lovable, defender of innocents. Of course, out of plush land, somewhat, things look different.

Yes, absolutely, I stand corrected, Shoma Uno did beat Hanyu during the SP of the WTT but the WTT scores do not add, sorry. It is the nature of the competition and therefore the approach is simply put, different. To apply your own logic, and I am sure you do want to uniformly apply your own logic, it doesn't mean Uno would have beaten Hanyu, had Hanyu approached WTT as an actual, full, competition, instead of this team event of a particular format. But yes, he did indeed lose in the SP portion of it.

As for "trivializing", why, CSG, I have done no such thing. It is actually a curious conundrum. Why do you think mentioning Yuzuru Hanyu was absent is somehow an insult? Why it's almost as if you, yourself think it should not be mentioned, because somehow it does reduce the value of Shoma's achievement. Naughty. For the record, I do not think it does. At the same time, simple facts are in no way an insult and the truth of who participated, or not, is just that.

I mean I am aware of the strange distortion field that somehow, on occasion, arises around Shoma Uno. It's mostly why I am inclined to add a little something here and there.

See, for example, when WTT was happening, and I must thank you for reminding me about this, when the network stated how Shoma Uno's interview had the highest rating of the entire program, that was truly something. Except turns out the distortion field had an effect! People living outside of that bubble noticed that the time mention was - you've guessed it - a Yuzuru Hanyu interview. Poor network, had to apologize and all.

I mean what can you do. Ever since Japan Open there have been these, what should we call them, dents. Yes, dents is a fabulous word! So I do tend to poke that bubble to see what falls out.

Sometimes it's cookies! Here - I will give virtual coo-coo-cookies to the first person who tells me what is wrong with this clipping from a Japanese newspaper, that has occurred on television too.

https://imgur.com/a/o3z72

So as you can see funny things happen.

Anyway, I could not agree more that hopefully they both remain healthy and meet head-to-head soon because somehow Yuzuru Hanyu has a negating effect on that distortion field and snap! Pop the bubble goes.

Ah darn silly me, getting carried away, somehow today I am all in a bla bla mood! Strange.

 

[Li'Kitsu]

I did not say that there is something wrong altogether in comparing scores across competitions - I just said that I do not understand the purpose of it, especially with so much complaint expressed over judging and especially if we take different season.

I'd think it's to compare how skaters seems to rank against in each other in the judges opinion, quite obviously.

apologies if 'ubers' word used offended you or anyone else - in the context of my whole point it supposed to referrence those who support fiercely and are committed to one single skater, my intentions were definitely not negative despite many ppls' beliefs. And for the record - I based this whole point from where you (yet again) have taken a piece and interpreted it in your way (to which you have a full right) on this very thread and discussion placed there with no specific posters in mind, more like specific opinions said, emotions/feelings already expressed, now repeated again. It's really not my fault that those opinions/statement are coming from the same people, I'm sorry. And where exactly in my post is 'victim playing' part? This was supposed to be my and mine only outlook and opinion on things happening there - some people are bothered by Jason's lack of quad, some are bothered by Yuzuru's programs, some are bothered by Shoma's twofoot skating, I OTOH just commented on all those sentiments expressed lately.

Oh come on, the word uber is even listed in the forum rules as not allowed (I'd think, because that is the norm for forums). And try again about "no specific posters" in mind when you basically pointed to a post of mine/a phrase I posted before here in this thread ("different strokes for different folks, as they say"). And to be blunt, I don't care if you think I'm an uber, or everything I write is nonsense, meant to be mean-spirited, or any of those - but posts that basically want to say how morally superior one is including some insults thrown in always make me want to point fingers (because I'm not very morally superior, truth be told). It's also pretty fun how you immediatly see what others post as of course only motivated by being a certain other skaters fan. If that makes sense or not.
As for victim playing: "I am fully aware that by saying such things, I'm giving his non-enthusiast a weapon to use, but he and I will live with that".

 

[MaiKatze]

Here is the interview with Shoma I mentioned, for those who don't visit the FanFest but are interested anyway. Translation by cantilover.

 

[Yatagarasu]

General comment regarding two foot skating, provided for information only and not directed at any particular skater:

One of the criteria for skating skills under the IJS is "mastery of one foot skating."

https://www.usfigureskating.org/content/JS08A-Programcompexplan.pdf
http://www.usfigureskating.org/content/ISU program-component-chart_sandp-and-id_08-16.pdf

Ah Tavi... , I do thank you for these.

Strange, official criteria, ex-skaters and current choreographer talking about it yet in this forum by some it's considered a joke to be discarded. Strange times indeed.

 

[Latremu]

The revelation for me in Lombardia was... Deniss. Watching his FS, I was just thinking that he has the potential to pull off a swoonworthy program, then he does it during the "Sway" part of the program! Nicely done, and still to improve over the season!

Congratulations to the winners Shoma (won by a mile!!), Jason (won silver by a kilometer), and Brendan! Great job, and it's just the start of the season!

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Shoma still beat Yuzu overall (and I'd think there is a thing at the banquet where they are getting certificates or something for their individual placements)

the WTT scores do not add, sorry.

 

[Sydney Rose]

Human beings have two feet. I love two foot skating!

Little wonder then that you're so critical of today's figure skating. Instead of watching elite skaters and constantly criticizing them, you might want to just watch children skate as they tend to spend most of their time on two feet. Or clumsy adult skaters like myself--back when I used to skate, most of it was on two feet. Such a shame that I didn't know at the time that this was something to celebrate.

 

[Skater Boy]

Shoma is only 19. Has plenty of time to improve what needs improving.

True, but I have to say the scoring here proves the direction skating is headed.

First, Shoma was wonderful but clearly a skater with great skating or atristry cannot compete unless they have the big jumps. One jump and that artistic/pc advantage is gone. years ago a skater like Brown with beautiful skating could still beat the technicians. But the pcs do not allow the differentiation of a Brown or Chan who deservedely should score hire than a Hanyu or Ten who should be ahead of Fernandez and Rippon - but the scores are bunched together and unlike jumps there is a ceiling. Also there is a tendency do the big trick and do it cleanly and you score well pc wise.

I really liked Jason's skating skills and lp. And Shoma really laid down the gauntlet - Yuzuru the title is not your's necessarily. Exciting yes, may be a big disappoint yes too because it is a jump fest. Look at the difference in scores between jason and Shoma.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Little wonder then that you're so critical of today's figure skating. Instead of watching elite skaters and constantly criticizing them, you might want to just watch children skate as they tend to spend most of their time on two feet. Or clumsy adult skaters like myself--back when I used to skate, most of it was on two feet. Such a shame that I didn't know at the time that this was something to celebrate.

The way you and child skaters skate on two feet is very different than the way elite skaters do. Shoma's FS has quite a lot of crossovers, but he also incorporates mini spread eagles and ina bauers as part of his 2-footed skating, which is harder than simply stroking around from jump to jump. Not to mention, his jumps still have transitional entries into them (some quite difficult like his quad toes -- especially the 2nd one with the counter). There is also something to be said about editing a program and not packing it wall to wall with transitions. He could, for example, add exit transitions onto every jump and increase GOE (it's not that hard for him to simply put his free foot down and do an outside spread eagle, like in his SP... or on the landing, he could do a RBO-RFO rocker, or a RBO-LFI choctaw, a falling leaf, or whatever). But he probably wants to show a controlled landing with flow instead of just tack on a transition each time. That being said, Uno could use more one-footed skating, but he's not glaringly deficient in it. Not to mention, it's the beginning of the season, and he's getting used to this layout, so the transitions and choreo are probably pared down from what they will ultimately be later on in the season.

General comment regarding two foot skating, provided for information only and not directed at any particular skater:

Mmmmmhmmmm....

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

True, but I have to say the scoring here proves the direction skating is headed.

First, Shoma was wonderful but clearly a skater with great skating or atristry cannot compete unless they have the big jumps. One jump and that artistic/pc advantage is gone. years ago a skater like Brown with beautiful skating could still beat the technicians. But the pcs do not allow the differentiation of a Brown or Chan who deservedely should score hire than a Hanyu or Ten who should be ahead of Fernandez and Rippon - but the scores are bunched together and unlike jumps there is a ceiling. Also there is a tendency do the big trick and do it cleanly and you score well pc wise.

I really liked Jason's skating skills and lp. And Shoma really laid down the gauntlet - Yuzuru the title is not your's necessarily. Exciting yes, may be a big disappoint yes too because it is a jump fest. Look at the difference in scores between jason and Shoma.

Yes, the scores between Jason and Shoma are huge, but Shoma attempted 5 quads (almost landing all of them cleanly) -- whereas Jason didn't even attempt one. I'm all for artistry getting its due (and Jason's PCS score did reflect that). But if Chan/Brown aren't bringing the technical difficulty, even with their top-notch artistry, they do not deserve to win against skaters like Hanyu/Chen/Jin/Uno who are all about the fire power.

I have tons of love for Jason, but years ago even a skater like Brown with beautiful skating could not beat the technicians when they skated well (save for US nationals where Brown beat a newbie Chen who wasn't ready to be anointed by USFSA). In my eyes, Brown has always been an underdog because of his lack of difficulty, but hangs in there because of his superior artistry. He is literally the only skater who could get away with it (other than maybe Jeff Buttle - who was fortunate not to have many multi-quadsters to deal with, certainly not to the extent Brown has to face). Which is a testament to the quality of Brown's overall skating. He is very special, very relevant, and (IMO) very important to the sport - but it's not very competitive (at the highest levels).

Personally, I'm okay with the skaters being bunched together PCS-wise. I think for the longest time the artistic score/PCS has been leveraged by the judges to distance skaters from each other, and used to save popular skaters who had bad skates (technically speaking) while holding back would-be competitors who have lights-out skates (technically speaking). Now competitions are determined by the skaters actually skating well/clean with difficulty, instead of relying on reputation/favorable judging (even if the judges still give crazy PCS in many instances).

There's also solace in knowing that Chan and Brown (if Brown makes the Olympics, which he has a good chance to) will both be there to show everyone the more artistic side of skating during the inevitable jump fest that will be the men's competition. They don't have as much of a shot to win... but as the aphorism goes, you can still steal the show without winning the blue ribbon.

 

[Mrs. P]

Jason's in his dark horse status as usual.

FWIW, I don't think we saw a 100 percent version this weekend. There was a last minute switch in the free skate, this is not the layout he's been doing. You can see that he has to think for a split second to put the -3S instead of the -3f in that three jump combo, hence him UR-ing it.

The thing about 4,5,6 quad skates is they are high risk. The Olympics, especially with just one day between to the segments, could be about who manages their content and less who has the most quads. This is why you see Nathan not doing all his quads this weekend. Good for Shoma for pulling that program but it will be interesting to see whether he can manage to peak with that content when it counts the most.

 

[MaiKatze]

Shoma said in his interview after the LP that he skates his best when he doesn't think much. Just proves again that figure skating is a mental sport, first and foremost. It's not about the other skaters, it's about yourself. Shoma is also able to focus and channel his best into moments where it actually counts. Last season, when I followed reports of Shoma, a lot of times he had bad practices or warm-ups and I would get slightly nervous. You can hear it in some of the commentaries, too "His practice hasn't gone well." "His jumps didn't look good in the warm up." But when Shoma skates in the competition he gets in the zone and usually delivers. That's not to say that he doesn't make mistakes at all, but he and his team have found a way for him to focus. I think this more carefree attitude can help him, Nathan and Boyang in their Olympic debut. But who knows. I actually think who wins the Olympics will depend on who wins the GPF. Let's see.

It's funny how times change. I remember 2012 Worlds where Patrick Chan won, also because of his superior tech to Daisuke Takahashi who many thought was artistically ahead. And look where we are now. Daisuke also left the sport because he knew he wouldn't be able to compete with skaters who do quads. And although it broke my heart at the time, I think it was right for him. It is unfair to change the system again to reward more artistry, because that is much more subjective than tech. I hope it won't happen. It is a sport. People who jump 3 or 4 different quads should be rewarded and win vs those who cannot do this.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Shoma said in his interview after the LP that he skates his best when he doesn't think much. Just proves again that figure skating is a mental sport, first and foremost. It's not about the other skaters, it's about yourself. Shoma is also able to focus and channel his best into moments where it actually counts. Last season, when I followed reports of Shoma, a lot of times he had bad practices or warm-ups and I would get slightly nervous. You can hear it in some of the commentaries, too "His practice hasn't gone well." "His jumps didn't look good in the warm up." But when Shoma skates in the competition he gets in the zone and usually delivers. That's not to say that he doesn't make mistakes at all, but he and his team have found a way for him to focus. I think this more carefree attitude can help him, Nathan and Boyang in their Olympic debut. But who knows. I actually think who wins the Olympics will depend on who wins the GPF. Let's see.

It's funny how times change. I remember 2012 Worlds where Patrick Chan won, also because of his superior tech to Daisuke Takahashi who many thought was artistically ahead. And look where we are now. Daisuke also left the sport because he knew he wouldn't be able to compete with skaters who do quads. And although it broke my heart at the time, I think it was right for him. It is unfair to change the system again to reward more artistry, because that is much more subjective than tech. I hope it won't happen. It is a sport. People who jump 3 or 4 different quads should be rewarded and win vs those who cannot do this.

This. And while it's really sad that Dai left the sport because of injuries/tech issues, I'm glad Uno is around. He really reminds me of Daisuke - particularly in the expressiveness of his arms and upper body. Some of the other skaters lack upper body finesse/posture and their arms can sometimes get sloppy or flail-y, and I like how Uno is constantly mindful of this. Uno could use better facial expressions, but in terms of overall movement he does have that quality that is reminiscent of Takahashi.

And yeah, when Uno is on auto-pilot, you can really get a sense of security and confidence in his elements. He doesn't tend to make nervous errors like pops, and his jumps are sufficiently rotated (at least enough for the tech specialists/judges whose opinions matter.. and maybe not so much to his critics whose opinions are insignificant by comparison).

 

[Mrs. P]

It is unfair to change the system again to reward more artistry, because that is much more subjective than tech. I hope it won't happen. It is a sport. People who jump 3 or 4 different quads should be rewarded and win vs those who cannot do this.

Figure skating is a unique sport though. It's not comparable to a sport like basketball, baseball or football, where the object of the game is to rack up the most points.

The "artistic" side of things are an inheritant part of the sport. Yes, measuring style/artistry/performance is subjective, but that doesn't mean one should completely disregard its role in the sport or that discussions regarding increasing their worth makes figure skating less of a sport.

I feel like ISU went almost one extreme at the 2010 Olympics and now going at another extreme as we go into the 2018 Olympics. I think there's a spectrum between "let's disregard quads" and "quads are the most important part of skating." I think the discussions here are whether the artistry/style should count for more in general...not more THAN doing jumps.