2017 Four Continents Men FS

[ranran]

He can choose whatever layout he wants but I think we are all free to point out our thoughts on the layout. I'm certainly not the first person to post that it's imprudent to keep doing the second half 4S given his inconsistency. But when he says the backup in case he pops the 4S is to shift gears from a combo to a half loop series with a *4S* on the end of it (especially when his 4S has been quite inconsistent this season) I think it's fair to say that is an ambitious plan B. Generally a plan B means going to something more manageable - like swapping a 3Z for a quad ... Not adding in a 4S (which you just popped a second earlier) onto the end of the very same series in one breath.

Of course not saying you can't express your thoughts. I have no problem with you questioning/wanted to discuss which layout is better considering which jump he is more consistent at as back up or as such but rather the possibilities and impossibilities of what he already said and did. Yes I agree it is definitely a very ambitious plan and almost illogical (and I'm glad he didn't proceed with some of it aka the lo-4s) but we are talking about a guy who is capable of bombing his short program and so-so freeskate at Skate Canada last season only to come out with world record score the next competition, logical train of thoughts don't apply with him. He seems be the Swoooshhh~~ and paaa~ kind of guy That is all what I'm trying to say... sorry if I seems to misunderstand your wordings but what prompt me to write the previous reply is because you seems to be questioning what Yuzuru himself said he is planning to do and what he ended up doing in his impromptu act. If that is not what you meant then sorry

 

[4everchan]

He can choose whatever layout he wants but I think we are all free to point out our thoughts on the layout. I'm certainly not the first person to post that it's imprudent to keep doing the second half 4S given his inconsistency. But when he says the backup in case he pops the 4S is to shift gears from a combo to a half loop series with a *4S* on the end of it (especially when his 4S has been quite inconsistent this season) I think it's fair to say that is an ambitious plan B. Generally a plan B means going to something more manageable - like swapping a 3Z for a quad ... Not adding in a 4S (which you just popped a second earlier) onto the end of the very same series in one breath.

agreeing with this.

 

[CoyoteChris]

He is Mexican right after all?

Born in Madrid...skates for Spain....

 

[Eislauf]

I thought the most important thing coming out of this program was that Nathan did not fold after that block-buster program from Yuzu.

With all he hype and the pressure and facing the moment of truth... he delivered. Not perfectly but pretty dang good by any measure.

He could have had a meltdown. He didn't. It was a strong performance. The kid's a competitor.

No kidding! Very mentally tough, kinda like Tom Brady and Michael Jordan. They can deliver under maximum competitive pressure.

 

[da96103]

He is Mexican right after all?

Javier was at 4CC! Didn't you guys see? He was that Mexican judge that gave weird scores!

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Of course not saying you can't express your thoughts. I have no problem with you questioning/wanted to discuss which layout is better considering which jump he is more consistent at as back up or as such but rather the possibilities and impossibilities of what he already said and did. Yes I agree it is definitely a very ambitious plan and almost illogical (and I'm glad he didn't proceed with some of it aka the lo-4s) but we are talking about a guy who is capable of bombing his short program and so-so freeskate at Skate Canada last season only to come out with world record score the next competition, logical train of thoughts don't apply with him. He seems be the Swoooshhh~~ and paaa~ kind of guy That is all what I'm trying to say... sorry if I seems to misunderstand your wordings but what prompt me to write the previous reply is because you seems to be questioning what Yuzuru himself said he is planning to do and what he ended up doing in his impromptu act. If that is not what you meant then sorry

I think he is logical enough as we saw him modify his program to make up for the doubled quad and shifted his jumping passes accordingly (even though it obviously compromised the performance). I just think the combo he was suggesting was his backup was too ambitious and there are smarter options in that scenario. He could hypothetically say "my backup if I miss a quad is to replace my 3Z with a 4Z" and if he feels capable of that because he's landed quad lutzes in practice that's great, but I think we would agree that it's super risky and ill-advised approach.

 

[Mathman]

Plan your skate, skate your plan. :yes:

 

[CoyoteChris]

Plan your skate, skate your plan. :yes:

I disagree. If this were purely art, I would agree but it is a sport where stragety can now make the difference between winning and loosing....
Under the new system, its all about the points....I hope we dont get to the point where the coaches wear NFL headsets, sending info to an earbug in the skater's ear,
but if a skater can think on their feet, so be it.

(BTW, let us put a rest to the rumor that Javier should have been at 4 conts. There is no truth to the rumor that he is marrying Miki and skating for Japan...maybe next year....)

 

[Puchi]

(BTW, let us put a rest to the rumor that Javier should have been at 4 conts. There is no truth to the rumor that he is marrying Miki and skating for Japan...maybe next year....)

Javieru San has a nice ring to it though :think:

 

[JuliaHols]

So that was the plan. Freaking emergancy quad at the end of a combo.

Nobody will out-crazy Yuzuru Hanyu. They may try, but he will never let them succeed

Oh my lord that's so funny. I think he should have tried it it would have been historical even if it was under rotated

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Some callers are stricter than others. At Skate Canada, Kevin got one UR on a quad in the SP and one UR on a fall on a quad in the FS. At Nepela, he got one UR on a quad in the SP and URs on 2 quads in the FS.

Kevin is unfortunately a hit or miss when it comes to the URs. It's because his quads tend to be more distance based than height and because he is fairly upright when he jumps so his landings don't have the knee bend and that extra split second to attain sufficient rotation sometimes.

I'm glad he has stuck with it though.. There was a time he had considered quitting.

Also, he is already a former 4CC champion!

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Oh my lord that's so funny. I think he should have tried it it would have been historical even if it was under rotated

Yeah the attempt itself would have been badass. The 4CC organizers woulda been "Well heck, these guys are skating like we're at worlds! #yassss"

I don't doubt he's the most likely guy to do a quad at the tail end of a combo but right now it's way too risky.

No tea no shade to Hanyu but when he said he considered tacking on a 4S on a 3-jump series (initially meant to be a 2-jump combo), with insufficient runout, I was like: http://pixel.nymag.com/imgs/daily/vulture/2015/01/16/surejan.w1200.h630.jpg

I kinda wish he would pick a minor competition and get his -half loop-4S out of his system and then play it smart at worlds. As it did here, that approach could cost him a win.

 

[Sorrento]

Okay, I can't obviosuly read everything posted during these 4CC days and maybe you guys have already talked abou it- I just wanted to ask for an opinion- there were a few words quoted on Twitter from Arutunyan- that what we saw from Nathan is not everything, they are planning something new. What is your idea of this new- my guess they want to show it at Worlds 2017. New quad? Two quads in second half? I mean- if they add another 10 points to the BV- they beat all the current Men elite. And that is not impossible given Nathan's present health and skill. What you think?

 

[Marin]

Okay, I can't obviosuly read everything posted during these 4CC days and maybe you guys have already talked abou it- I just wanted to ask for an opinion- there were a few words quoted on Twitter from Arutunyan- that what we saw from Nathan is not everything, they are planning something new. What is your idea of this new- my guess they want to show it at Worlds 2017. New quad? Two quads in second half? I mean- if they add another 10 points to the BV- they beat all the current Men elite. And that is not impossible given Nathan's present health and skill. What you think?

Replace one axel with one between Lutz and flip and go for six quads + 1 3A this will be next season, Jin will do the same, Hanyu will go for 5 quads I am sure about it and at the end skater who stays not broken wins Olympic ...

 

[4everchan]

Replace one axel with one between Lutz and flip and go for six quads + 1 3A this will be next season, Jin will do the same, Hanyu will go for 5 quads I am sure about it and at the end skater who stays not broken wins Olympic ...

oh well... hope these guys can still walk in ten years. The quad explosion being so recent, nobody knows its effects on the bodies of these young kids....

many former skaters have issues and they weren't doing such crazy layouts. It's scary.

 

[Sorrento]

Replace one axel with one between Lutz and flip and go for six quads + 1 3A this will be next season, Jin will do the same, Hanyu will go for 5 quads I am sure about it and at the end skater who stays not broken wins Olympic ...

Yeah, imagine it's none of them. That could have been the message to the rest of the field I guess. I really hate the fact that PCS scale is not be updated prior to the Olympics.

 

[asiacheetah]

Yeah it's kinda trivializing Nathan's victory or dismissing it as Yuzu not skating his best. And while some are saying that Yuzu's okay because one less popped quad and he would have won. Well, Nathan still left room for improvement in the FS on some of his landings, so he could have pulled higher as well. And if Nathan replicates this performance at Worlds, he's sure to crack 90 PCS and minimize the advantage Hanyu/Fernandez/Chan have in that department.

In this Yuzu vs Chen debate people are also forgetting about Uno and his 100-plus SP and could have definitely cracked 200 with his axels, only doing one combo and leaving out a 3F. He is a silent threat and is still definitely in the World medal hunt, maybe even gold if he skates to his potential.

But WHY would him skating cleaning bump his PCS score to 90? Jumping passes are reflected in the TES. How does skating cleanly reflect in his skating skills, transitions, performance, interpretation, etc? It really shouldn't. Other than skating more confidently, I haven't seen any improvements in Nathan's artistic performance at all.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Yeah, imagine it's none of them. That could have been the message to the rest of the field I guess. I really hate the fact that PCS scale is not be updated prior to the Olympics.

I for one love it. It will hopefully ensure that top skaters can't get saved by judges or break well ahead of the pack when they give flawed skates and get high PCS to compensate for it. For the first time in a while, I'm optimistic the Olympic champion will have technically strong skates will "good or better-than-good artistry" and people get to witness the technical explosion within the men's discipline.

 

[viennaskater]

Is it me, or did Kevin's program consist mostly of hands waving?

It's you.

I LOVED this program - Kevin has such a superb straight bodyline and I think he did justice to the style of the music.

 

[viennaskater]

Ugh, 104 for this program?

Good - it wasn't just me who thought Jin was overscored. His short program was way better.