2017 JGP Poland Ladies SP

[Sam-Skwantch]

I guess that's decisive. Give her 80. :sarcasm:

10pts for a spin!!! Now we're talking!!!

 

[largeman]

topic: whatif, did you see that there's a discussion thread named after you?

 

[Spirals for Miles]

Some unpolished, chaotic debutant out of nowhere is getting 70 points for some uncoordinated arms flailing and poor artistry, while exquisite, graceful innate performer and multiple JGP medalist is getting 58p for fine skate with one small mistake during spin.
It makes me literally sick and I've just eaten a good dinner... :disapp:

Sheesh, I guess everything really is subjective... unpolished? Just because she's not skating to princess-y music with no personality doesn't mean that she's not polished. If you want to talk about arm flailing, talk about Lena, who has fixed hers considerably but Alenka is not flailing her arms. And if she was, so what? It doesn't make her skating bad. Artistry is very different for everyone: for me, she was much more artistic, especially because she didn't just prepare for jumps by skating across the entire rink. She actually engaged with her music and felt her program. And if you expect a JGP medalist to get higher scores because of that, that's disgusting. Not only is that favoritism right there, it prevents others from getting the success that they deserve, it prevents others from blossoming on the JGP. And Eunsoo's score wasn't low just because of the spin. She lost levels on other things as well, and her GOE was lower than Alenka's and Dasha's because her jumps look like she's using all muscle, instead of making it look graceful. Alenka did well to even make it to the JGP this year, so I wouldn't be bashing her just for debuting with a good score.

And before you say that I hate Eunsoo, I don't. I like her skating and want her to push herself. If that can't be with her current coach, then she can succeed with many different coaches. I just wish that you wouldn't bring some skaters down to bring your own favorites up. If Eunsoo isn't good enough for the final this year, then she will push herself by junior worlds, that I'm sure of. Just because Alenka and Dasha are Russian doesn't mean that they're automatically being overscored. It just means that others aren't pushing to catch up with them.

 

[tars]

Eteri's name is basically making judging panels insane or corrupting them mentally.
I love many of her pupils, present and former, but seriously - not every single girl under her tutelage is equally talented!
Why do judges feel obligued to shower them with undeserved points? This will only have demoralizing effect on them and on other skaters - and we're talking about 13-14yo kids!

Disgusting process to watch. :disapp::hopelessness:

 

[AlexRus]

debutant out of nowhere is getting 70 points

Fair score for her skating.

It is called "new star born". In fact this star was born a month ago, at OpenMoscow.

Alena Kostornaya skated well at OpenMoscow-2015 (as future star), after that was injury and long period of restoring.
Now restored.

 

[whatif]

topic: whatif, did you see that there's a discussion thread named after you?

http://i.imgur.com/qoYkBXB.gif

 

[Tolstoj]

Some unpolished, chaotic debutant out of nowhere is getting 70 points for some uncoordinated arms flailing and poor artistry, while exquisite, graceful innate performer and multiple JGP medalist is getting 58p for fine skate with one small mistake during spin.
It makes me literally sick and I've just eaten a good dinner... :disapp:

I was expecting a 66-67 score considering this is her debut, but as i pointed on the state of the russian ladies thread she looks faster than the other Eteri's students in juniors and she's also the best spinner, and looking at the protocols that means big points on the GOEs even for those elements.

Eunsoo is great (the best skater in korea, even better than Dabin Choi potentially), but here she made more than just one small mistake: even the layback spin was level 3, and also the steps sequence was evel 3. This is not even the exception because she's constantly missing the levels on spins and stsq, i wonder if some of these elements are planned level 3.

On the FSSp not only she lost the balance but also the speed so she got only 1.91 points for that element.

Flip was ! apparently.

Then the fact that she doesn't have transitions is hurting her on both the PCS (on the transitions) and the GOE of the jumps because they can look a little telegraphed.

Plus she needs to step up her game by skating a clean FS for once because so far she always has problems on one of the two programs, she needs to show the consistency.

 

[tars]

Fair score for her skating.

It is called "new star born". In fact this star was born a month ago, at OpenMoscow.

Alena Kostornaya skated well at OpenMoscow-2015 (as future star), after that was injury and long period of restoring.
Now restored.

I watched her skate at Moscow Championships and you know what?
She skated BETTER than today and recieved 62. This is proof of the madness, I'm talking about. :confused2:

 

[tjb]

for eteri haters like tars it really would be better to stop watching jgp in a coming years. otherwise it might be really painful, and in a few more years he could stop watching a senior gp as well

 

[AlexRus]

I watched her skate at Moscow Championships and you know what?
She skated BETTER than today and recieved 62. This is proof of the madness, I'm talking about. :confused2:

I've seen OpenMoscow alive.
And while watching alive is more impressive, I see - today Alena skated better.

And scores at OpenMoscow are always relatively low.

 

[[email protected]]

Alena is my favorite junior skater now. Her todays SP was the best SP I've seen from the juniors Zagitova included. Maybe Tsurskaya in Saransk could rival todays Alyona's performance. Speed, confidence, and crazy difficulty of smoothly integrated transitions. The only area where she is losing to some other skaters is her connection to the music. Yes, the material she chose is not easy to interpret, may be that's the part of the reason. And it's definitely curable when all other assets are there.

Panenkova was better than at her first event but was scored lower. I first thought that was injustice but the difference of 4 points with Kostornaya is about right.

Eusoon Lim was solid. I expected 62-63 based on what I saw. As she had ! on flip may be 61-62. She still cannot get the same score as Panenkova for the lack of backloading and transitions. 58 seems somewhat lowballed.

 

[[email protected]]

Her todays SP was the best SP I've seen from the juniors Zagitova included. Maybe Tsurskaya in Saransk could rival todays Alyona's performance.

On a second thought I remembered that Sima's Sweet and tender beast in Lyublyana was less impressive technically but for me it is the all time winner in terms artistry in junior SPs. Then it should be in the hall of fame as well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xrRDaKJ9CMg&app=desktop

 

[madison]

My friend, let's calm down and look at his objectively.
As I said, I'm always shocked by junior high scores. I see Alena getting 69 points and I'm like... WHAT?????
Yuna Kim got a little above 69 for her work of art Kiss of the Vampire!

But then, if I look at the protocols, I can totally see why Alena got 69.
First of all, backloading.
She backloaded all of her jumps and she didn't mess up any of them. So, a lot of points there already.
Is it fair this whole "10% bonus" thing? Well, for me, it really hurts the composition of the program, but there are lot of people who don't seem to mind it. Hopefully, they will change this, because the purpose was to prevent skaters from frontloading, not to give away points just because they start jumping after past half time. Because let's all agree, are they really that tired? Specially in the short, no, there are not. So the argument of "oh, it's more difficult so let them have their bonus" is invalid to me. Anyway, moving on...

Alena had level 4 in everything, except her Step sequence which was level 3. I completely agree with that, don't you? She had amazing spins!
And that's it. That's how she got her 41.14 TES. I don't think you can really argue with that.

Now, the controversial side... The PCS. She got 28. Basically, she got mostly 7s for her components. Transitions and skating skills are always good with Eteri girls, I think we can all agree. Personally, her transitions might be difficult but they don't have anything to do with the music, as you said, she's just flailing her arms. But still, apparently, that's what people seem to be into now. No more clean lines, no more holding a position, finishing a movement. And actually, for me, I thought Alena was even a little more "calm" with her movements than most Eteri girls. But anyway, whatever it is she's doing, it counts as transitions. I might add that anything can be counted as transitions, even the smallest movement, like a head movement. It's a shame most skaters seem to be only using their arms. But fine. Moving on.

Now, performance and interpretation. She got 6.96 overall for interpretation, which funnily enough, it's the exact same as Eunsoo got in Austria. Now, that's not correct to me. As I said, I saw no connection between Alena and her music. Her choreo does not help. You know when skaters are at the warm up and there's a background music playing? That's what it felt like. Now, do I feel that they should've given her a lower score on those components? Probably.

Overall, a 25ish would've sufficed. But Tarakanova got 27 in Austria, for instance. So I guess that's just how many points 1st place are getting right now, around 27. Eunsoo also got a little more than 27 in Austria, which was so far, her best SP. So I do feel Alena was a little overscored here and there. But I've seen worse overscoring. LOL
It's not the end of the world.

And in this event, Eunsoo was not at her best. Her TES was about right. I don't think she was underscored at all. Her components, as I said, was not great, she got almost 25, which is just about 2-3 points lower than Austria. It definitely seems correct to me, since it could not be higher than Austria because her performance this time was lacking.

See? All in all, the scores are not that surprising or crazy. I mean, considering that we've seen crazier. LOL

Plus, judges need to overscore Juniors because they overscored senior lady too much. If they give normal scores to these young girls, when they turn into seniors(which is soon), they'll be extremely far behind from the top lady. So... It's all logic, for them. ^^


By the way, I absolutely adore Eunsoo, she's so charismatic! And I have nothing against Alena, I think her 1st place was well deserved. As always, the numbers can be a little messy, but what can we do?

I don`t think it's effective to compare scores across the years and not even across the same year, different competitions, different judges, and scale of values. And also in the short program, each year, the juniors have to do different layout of the jumps, I think. Secondly, I think transitions mean the entries and the exits to the elements and you are talking about choreo, in general. Third I do think that having jumps in the second part of the program is much more difficult (especially in the free program), from a physical and psychological point of view. It depends on the music if the program is well balanced having all the jumps in the second part. It can as well be unbalanced with the jumps all over the program.
Now about Alena. I first saw her at Moscow Open, not live, and I was really impressed. She is the complete package and very polished for her age. Eunsoo on the other hand.... her bad posture, very bad, always strikes me when I follow her

 

[yyyskate]

@beatrixkid I LOVE that head movement too. let me tell ya, it is not easy to do at all. if you hit it on the music essence and with the desired force and amplitude demanded by the music, it may very possible throw you off. perhaps that is what happened in another outing.
Here Squirtle (I mean Lim) also used head movement https://youtu.be/9WSPxCDCrns?t=31, it is on music note, but not performed as well/efficient as her previous SP outing.

 

[russianfan]

Can someone make a gif for that lutz jump of Kostornaya starting from the split jump?

For me that whole sequence takes the cake as one of the hardest transitions currently being done

here is one from Moscow competitions (you can also find more in her fan fest thread)
https://vk.com/doc4941327_450579804?hash=45061adfb35421a2c3&dl=52457afe5e8013fb55

 

[Artemisa]

I like very much SP Alena Kostornaia ... the music didn't need a lot of intrepertation but she has a lot of confidence almost palpable
Panenkova ... she did a good program but something is missing .. is like someone give her a program that was for other skater and she didn't have other choice... and FS with Ne me quitte pas ... this is a music for a women not a litle girl...

 

[atsumiri]

Can someone make a gif for that lutz jump of Kostornaya starting from the split jump?

For me that whole sequence takes the cake as one of the hardest transitions currently being done

from today SP

Ballet Jump - Rocker - Walley - Choctaw → 3 Lz https://gifyu.com/images/ALENA3L.gif
Ina Bauer → 2A → three → Twizzle → Choctaw https://gifyu.com/images/Alena2a.gif

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

Walleys into jumps are my favorites. I think it was Bradie Tennell who did one in each direction into her 3lz a few years back. So Ca$h

I'm a little less favorable of Ina Bauer or spread eagles into Axel jumps...meh..:handw:

 

[zounger]

But anyway, whatever it is she's doing, it counts as transitions. I might add that anything can be counted as transitions, even the smallest movement, like a head movement. It's a shame most skaters seem to be only using their arms. But fine. Moving on.

The truth is she is trying to use her head as well, yes not so evident like the example from Yuna or like Evgenia’s last year program, but if you check at 53s you can se it.

 

[tars]

from today SP

Ballet Jump - Rocker - Walley - Choctaw → 3 Lz https://gifyu.com/images/ALENA3L.gif

If somebody says this is eye-pleasing and graceful movement, we can't provide a discussion, because we simply live in different esthetic universes.
Peace, though.


ps.

Ina Bauer → 2A → three → Twizzle → Choctaw https://gifyu.com/images/Alena2a.gif

that was very nice and the only eye-pleasing moment during her skate