2017 Worlds Entries

[ice coverage]

.... (There isn't a catch 22, is there? A low score at Worlds can't undermine the team qualification points gained by the junior team at Junior Worlds, can it?) ...

You have raised an interesting issue.

Important to say first that I have no idea whether it had anything to do with the withdrawal.

But as a theoretical discussion:

It's actually Kim/Kim's placement at Four Continents that has set the bar for qualification points toward the Olympic team event.

Their placement of 12th at Four Continents is worth 264 qualification points.

If a Korean pair were to compete at Worlds and were to place 16th or lower there, then Korea would lose ground toward Olympic team qualification.

15th place at Worlds is worth 275 points. 16th place is worth 247 points.
If a country competes at Worlds, the points from Worlds count. Doesn't matter what happened at Four Continents (or Junior Worlds).​

 

[Ice Dance]

If a Korean pair were to compete at Worlds and were to place 16th or lower there, then Korea would lose ground toward Olympic team qualification.

Well, there you go. Maybe Korea is making a savvy decision then. It's highly unlikely that Ji & Leftheris would place top sixteen at Worlds.

It's a flaw built into the current team qualification process, then, IMO. And should be rectified in the future.

 

[4everchan]

You have raised an interesting issue.

Important to say first that I have no idea whether it had anything to do with the withdrawal.

But as a theoretical discussion:

It's actually Kim/Kim's placement at Four Continents that has set the bar for qualification points toward the Olympic team event.

Their placement of 12th at Four Continents is worth 264 qualification points.

If a Korean pair were to compete at Worlds and were to place 16th or lower there, then Korea would lose ground toward Olympic team qualification.

15th place at Worlds is worth 275 points. 16th place is worth 247 points.
If a country competes at Worlds, the points from Worlds count. Doesn't matter what happened at Four Continents (or Junior Worlds).​

oh that's sad tactics..... ugh...... but you know... how could anyone blame them???

 

[GF2445]

Well, there you go. Maybe Korea is making a savvy decision then. It's highly unlikely that Ji & Leftheris would place top sixteen at Worlds.

It's a flaw built into the current team qualification process, then, IMO. And should be rectified in the future.

Conversely, they were to place below 24th place, they would recieve 0 points for worlds- the rule then is to use the points earned at 4 continents. It really is a game.

 

[4everchan]

Conversely, they were to place below 24th place, they would recieve 0 points for worlds- the rule then is to use the points earned at 4 continents. It really is a game.

so since australia won junior pairs , should they stay home too? what would the game point be in their case?

BTW are they planning to go to senior worlds as well?

 

[SkaterX]

So there's only 2 US men at Worlds this year?

 

[ice coverage]

You have raised an interesting issue.

Important to say first that I have no idea whether it had anything to do with the withdrawal.

But as a theoretical discussion: ...

oh that's sad tactics..... ugh...... but you know... how could anyone blame them???

Just want to be clear that "tactics" is your word/assumption and not mine.

I had stressed above that I have no idea whether the withdrawal had anything to do with the Olympic team qualification rules.

 

[el henry]

So there's only 2 US men at Worlds this year?

Yes, even though three US men finished in the top ten at Worlds last year. Frankly, I'm not sure I understand the formula, but despite Adam's, Max's and Grant's terrific skates in Boston in 2016, the US is now sending two men's skaters.

 

[Chemistry66]

So there's only 2 US men at Worlds this year?

Yes, even though three US men finished in the top ten at Worlds last year. Frankly, I'm not sure I understand the formula, but despite Adam's, Max's and Grant's terrific skates in Boston in 2016, the US is now sending two men's skaters.

The rule is simply "Sum of top 2 skaters' placements must be 13 or less". Unfortunately, Adam was 6th while Max was 8th, and the US was JUST shy of missing the requirement. Such a rarity that three entries finish within the top 10 and a country doesn't end up with three spots, that I wonder if the ISU ever even considered a special contingency rule for three entries all placing within X placement, but not meeting the 13-or-less requirement. Wonder if they're considering it now. I always wondered how they decided on the 13 and 28 rules (and the placement point exceptions of 16 points if FS-qualified but lower than 16th place/18 points if SP participant lower than 18th place)

so since australia won junior pairs , should they stay home too? what would the game point be in their case?

BTW are they planning to go to senior worlds as well?

Well...they are listed as an entry in the first post of this thread. At least for now. And for them, I feel that skipping Senior Worlds (if countries are actually employing that as a tactic, since there's not yet proof of this) would be silly if they're fit to compete. The experience is invaluable for a young team, especially one that hopes to qualify for the Olympics in their first full Senior season and second competitive season period.

 

[4everchan]

i didn't say it was tactics for sure... i was reacting to the analysis of ice coverage... saying how could we blame them? but i don't know for sure and i am not making accusations

and sure i forgot to look at the OP... which i often do but you know nobody is perfect so then, i am looking forward to seeing the young australians at worlds

 

[GF2445]

so since australia won junior pairs , should they stay home too? what would the game point be in their case?

BTW are they planning to go to senior worlds as well?

Well for Australia, i think they value getting the olympic spots more than making the team event. Competing at worlds will give them the best chance to get grand prix spots which also count towards the team event.

 

[Marin]

https://headlines.yahoo.co.jp/hl?a=20170320-00000079-dal-spo
Not good news for Japan, Miyahara WD

 

[sunnystars]

https://headlines.yahoo.co.jp/hl?a=20170320-00000079-dal-spo
Not good news for Japan, Miyahara WD

JSF should act now and get Kaori to sub in instead.

 

[Marin]

JSF should act now and get Kaori to sub in instead.

Unfortunately kaori doesn't have tes minimum for seniors so Rika will replace her.

 

[risingtrot]

Seems they will go for Rika as also announced on local tv. I hope Japan will still be able to get three spots for next year...

 

[YesWay]

https://headlines.yahoo.co.jp/hl?a=20170320-00000079-dal-spo
Not good news for Japan, Miyahara WD

This is bad news. Poor Satoko, but I'm glad her health comes first. I hope she recovers fully for the next season.

It's not impossible for Japan to keep three places for next year and the Olympics... but Mai, Wakaba and Rika are going to have to fight hard and skate clean to do it...

It was always going to be a bloodbath for the Japanese ladies competing for a place on the Olympic team. But if they end up wth only two places... the heartbreak will be even worse... ;_;

 

[pororocheburashka]

When exactly is the deadline for changes of the worlds entries?

 

[LRK]

The rule is simply "Sum of top 2 skaters' placements must be 13 or less". Unfortunately, Adam was 6th while Max was 8th, and the US was JUST shy of missing the requirement. Such a rarity that three entries finish within the top 10 and a country doesn't end up with three spots, that I wonder if the ISU ever even considered a special contingency rule for three entries all placing within X placement, but not meeting the 13-or-less requirement. Wonder if they're considering it now. I always wondered how they decided on the 13 and 28 rules (and the placement point exceptions of 16 points if FS-qualified but lower than 16th place/18 points if SP participant lower than 18th place)



Well...they are listed as an entry in the first post of this thread. At least for now. And for them, I feel that skipping Senior Worlds (if countries are actually employing that as a tactic, since there's not yet proof of this) would be silly if they're fit to compete. The experience is invaluable for a young team, especially one that hopes to qualify for the Olympics in their first full Senior season and second competitive season period.

Well, according to the GS Pairs Recap article they are going to senior Worlds':

http://www.goldenskate.com/2017/03/2017-junior-world-pairs/

"The team now is headed to the 2017 ISU World Figure Skating Championships in Helsinki, Finland, later this month and hopes to qualify for the Olympic Winter Games next year."

 

[TontoK]

Yes, even though three US men finished in the top ten at Worlds last year. Frankly, I'm not sure I understand the formula, but despite Adam's, Max's and Grant's terrific skates in Boston in 2016, the US is now sending two men's skaters.

The formula is based on the sum of placements of the best two skaters. In order to secure 3 spots for the following year, the best two placements had to sum 13 or less.

Adam finished 6th, Max 8th, and Grant 10th.

6 + 8 = 14. So enough to secure 2 spots, but not three.

Contrast this with the 2015 results from Shanghai. US Men placements were: Jason 4th, Adam 8th, and Josh 11th.

Summing the best two placements... 4 + 8 = 12... is how the US had three skaters in Boston.

So... this formula explains the angst some people have about the performance of US men this year.

If Nathan's and Jason's total placements sum to 13 or less, then USA gets 3 men at WC next year, and more importantly at the Olympic Games.

The MUCH discussed question is whether USFSA is sending the two skaters MOST likely to place high enough to bring back three spots for the Olympics.

4th and 9th will earn three. 6th and 8th will not. Many variations...

 

[sallycinnamon]

I wonder why Niki Wories is listed as going to Worlds. Various news articles say otherwise (basically, no Dutch skaters at all at Worlds).
http://www.telegraaf.nl/telesport/27709852/__Geen_Nederlanders_naar_WK_kunstrijden__.html

I was wondering too, but she is still on the list.

Is she injured? She skated way below her personal best at Challenge Cup...