2017 Worlds Entries

[Winnie_20]

I was wondering too, but she is still on the list.

Is she injured? She skated way below her personal best at Challenge Cup...

Yes, she suffered a number of concussions this season and surgery (bursitis?). CC was her first competition, I guess. Either way, looks like the Dutch federation wasn't convinced and isn't sending her to Worlds. Also, there is someone at the Sale page here on GS with a nickname that makes me think it's someone related to her (possibly) selling Ladies sp and fs tickets. Might be a coincidence, but in my experience there is no such thing...

 

[sallycinnamon]

Yes, she suffered a number of concussions this season and surgery (bursitis?). CC was her first competition, I guess. Either way, looks like the Dutch federation wasn't convinced and isn't sending her to Worlds. Also, there is someone at the Sale page here on GS with a nickname that makes me think it's someone related to her (possibly) selling Ladies sp and fs tickets. Might be a coincidence, but in my experience there is no such thing...

Thank you for your answer.
I'm sad to hear this. Anyway I wish her a speedy recovery and all the best to her for the next season.

 

[beki]

When can we expect the skating order to be published?

 

[Chemistry66]

When can we expect the skating order to be published?

Draws are usually the day or two before the event.

Well, according to the GS Pairs Recap article they are going to senior Worlds':

http://www.goldenskate.com/2017/03/2017-junior-world-pairs/

"The team now is headed to the 2017 ISU World Figure Skating Championships in Helsinki, Finland, later this month and hopes to qualify for the Olympic Winter Games next year."

Yeah. I said they were listed, but for now. Things could still change.

 

[Sabrina]

Spain has 2 Javier skaters, but no substitution. Does that mean there are no other Spanish skaters that has qualified for the worlds? The big Javier is a lonely wolf in Spain...

 

[Chemistry66]

Spain has 2 Javier skaters, but no substitution. Does that mean there are no other Spanish skaters that has qualified for the worlds? The big Javier is a lonely wolf in Spain...

No other Spanish skater made both Tech minimums. Felipe Montoya got the SP minimum last year at Euros, but his FS TES best score is 63.22 (from last season's Sportland Trophy) which is just barely shy of the required 64.00

 

[Ice Dance]

Spain has 2 Javier skaters, but no substitution. Does that mean there are no other Spanish skaters that has qualified for the worlds? The big Javier is a lonely wolf in Spain...

It's a shame Spain can't give one of its men's spots to a dance team.

 

[karne]

I don't understand WHY Korea don't send another Pair ????

Does Korea have two Worlds spots for pairs? I thought they only had one.

The formula is based on the sum of placements of the best two skaters. In order to secure 3 spots for the following year, the best two placements had to sum 13 or less.

Adam finished 6th, Max 8th, and Grant 10th.

6 + 8 = 14. So enough to secure 2 spots, but not three.

Contrast this with the 2015 results from Shanghai. US Men placements were: Jason 4th, Adam 8th, and Josh 11th.

Summing the best two placements... 4 + 8 = 12... is how the US had three skaters in Boston.

Everyone knows the raw numbers. It's still a damn stupid situation when a country can have three skaters in the top ten but the numbers say the country doesn't get three. Max, Adam and Grant all had the FS of their lives. Meanwhile, certain other countries picked up extra spots even though their two men had sloppy, mistake-ridden FS performances (and fans of said country skaters had spent the previous year whining about how unfair it was that they only had two, even though the calculation that lost them their third spot was 2+12, which is hardly an indication of enormous depth that justifies a third spot (which was their argument)).

It was stupid then and it was still stupid now.

(Also, I'd like to point out that the third spot was originally won back in 2014, with Jeremy (5) + Max (8) = 13.)

 

[Chemistry66]

Does Korea have two Worlds spots for pairs? I thought they only had one.

No, they only have the one. But what patinage_adulte was wondering is why there wasn't a substitute entry since Ji/Leftheris have withdrawn. They weren't the only Korean pair to make the TES minimums (for example, Kim/Kim's 4CCs scores met the requirements).

 

[TontoK]

Does Korea have two Worlds spots for pairs? I thought they only had one.



Everyone knows the raw numbers. It's still a damn stupid situation when a country can have three skaters in the top ten but the numbers say the country doesn't get three. Max, Adam and Grant all had the FS of their lives. Meanwhile, certain other countries picked up extra spots even though their two men had sloppy, mistake-ridden FS performances (and fans of said country skaters had spent the previous year whining about how unfair it was that they only had two, even though the calculation that lost them their third spot was 2+12, which is hardly an indication of enormous depth that justifies a third spot (which was their argument)).

It was stupid then and it was still stupid now.

(Also, I'd like to point out that the third spot was originally won back in 2014, with Jeremy (5) + Max (8) = 13.)

Actually, my post was in reply to another contributor who specifically stated that she did not understand the formula... noting as you do that it seemed incongruous that three top 10 finishes in one WC did not merit a third spot in the following.

My explanation and examples were not an attempt to justify the process, only to shed light.

I don't think this formula has always been the way spots were awarded, but I don't recall when the change happened. If I'm not mistaken, all countries that stood on the podium earned a third spot, but I can't be certain of that.

 

[4everchan]

Ranking 6th is almost certainly not going to give 3 spots to any country... unless they are lucky enough to rank 7th for their number 2 guy...

I think the 13 number was not chosen by accident....

Think of it with the podium in mind.. as TontoK mentioned, before, podium finishers granted 3 skaters to their countries... that was deemed superfluous and not necessarily the best way to go... so new rules were made...

I am thinking that they thought, we should have 3 spots for a guy on the podium with a top ten colleague... so 3 + 10 = 13.... and from there the other combos went down (1-12, 2-11 to 6-7).... With all the possible rankings, I find the actual system quite reasonable. If a country doesn't podium +top ten, do they really have that depth?

If a country has 3 guys in the lower echelons of the top ten, do they really deserve 3 spots?

I don't think the system is really flawed or else it could favour countries with a relative depth but no front runner... that's not really great for the sport as the two ways for it to develop are

1) exciting skating from the front runners : it gives visibility to the sport worldwide
2) a large pool of countries with good/above average skaters. To achieve this, you cannot burden the top 10 or 15 with only a few nations. It's sad for the USA this time around but you could also say that Russia deserves 8 spots in ladies... they could probably fill half the top 15..... so that quota of 3 serves objective 2 in many ways.

Sometimes, countries have bad luck with the spots.. fair enough... but it is what it is.

 

[karne]

If a country has 3 guys in the lower echelons of the top ten, do they really deserve 3 spots?

If a country has one good guy who finishes on the podium but the other two finish outside the top ten, why is it unfair they lose the third spot?

Why do two sloppy, mistake-ridden, overscored free skates prove that one country is somehow more "deserving" of three spots than three skate-of-his-life free skates that get underscored but still manage to finish inside the top 10?

 

[4everchan]

If a country has one good guy who finishes on the podium but the other two finish outside the top ten, why is it unfair they lose the third spot?

Why do two sloppy, mistake-ridden, overscored free skates prove that one country is somehow more "deserving" of three spots than three skate-of-his-life free skates that get underscored but still manage to finish inside the top 10?

I am not sure what you are saying here. The only country with 3 spots is Japan. If you want to call Yuzu's and Shoma's results overscored compared to the American guys, well that's up to you.

What I read often about the 3 spots is this :

well the 3rd guy or lady gives us an extra medal chance or and extra top finish

... well... not really.... Grant was 16th after the SP... Yes... he had the skate of his life but was he ever a medal hope? It is almost a fluke (no offense) that he got to #10... many guys didn't do a great free skate... but don't ever forget the Americans were quite far behind after the short.... gotta land those quads in the short !!! In most countries a third spot is not an extra hope for a top result. It's an extra chance to bring someone along to develop the future talent : look what it did for Korea when Yuna was able to bring some extra spots at home....

Actually the 3rd skater doesn't even count in the tally so why are we talking about the 3 american men not keeping 3 spots as only 2 of them were responsible to do so?

We have discussed this long and large as well as your wish for small federations to have opportunities.... well think about it... the easier the spots are to gain will only benefit the larger federations... from there on, more points are accumulated at the biggest event of the year... which translates in world standing which goes into GP assignments.... do you really need me to elaborate on how in the end, it's a snowball effect???? If the GP assignments gets full because there are too many countries with 3 spots or even 2 spots, then the Challenger are filled with really good skaters who have no other chance to perform... relegating the lower level athletes to the bottom of the bottom of the ranking of the lowest events... which means less points earned if any etc....
WHY? just because you want a 3rd American man?

If it were up to me, nobody would even get 3 spots. So many sports can only send their top 1 or top 2 athletes. Look how crowded is ice dance with 3 Canadian, 3 French, 3 USA, and countries including russia and italy (both potentially top 10-12 teams) having two spots... Considering the French teams are younger, and only 1 may be top ten, you have 3 Canadians, 3 USA 1 French, 2 Italians, 2 Russians so already 11 teams fighting for the top 10.... where are the smaller fed teams? When you add the Danes, the Israeli, perhaps the Polish and the Ukrainians....then the younger 2 French teams... I don't see much of a chance for small federations to have a team earning a berth in the Free Dance... Once again.. points lost.... etc.... You want Australia to qualify for the team event... think about it.

 

[Ice Dance]

Considering the French teams are younger, and only 1 may be top ten, you have 3 Canadians, 3 USA 1 French, 2 Italians, 2 Russians so already 11 teams fighting for the top 10.... where are the smaller fed teams? When you add the Danes, the Israeli, perhaps the Polish and the Ukrainians....then the younger 2 French teams... I don't see much of a chance for small federations to have a team earning a berth in the Free Dance.

You do not see Denmark, Israel, Poland, and Ukraine as smaller Federations? Italy is not exactly huge. It is competitive. Spain & Slovakia would be in the hunt if their teams hadn't split up. I do see the top three spots as being a matter of having three athletes with a shot at a medal. And the U.S. & Canadian dance teams do all have scores that indicate a shot at a medal. (Seven of the top teams have a world medal and two others have defeated teams that have one in competition).

The U.S. men do not. (If the second spot is all about developing the future, then should all the experienced athletes hang up their hats and drop out of the running? I don't think so).

 

[TontoK]

We have discussed this long and large as well as your wish for small federations to have opportunities.... well think about it... the easier the spots are to gain will only benefit the larger federations... from there on, more points are accumulated at the biggest event of the year... which translates in world standing which goes into GP assignments.... do you really need me to elaborate on how in the end, it's a snowball effect???? If the GP assignments gets full because there are too many countries with 3 spots or even 2 spots, then the Challenger are filled with really good skaters who have no other chance to perform... relegating the lower level athletes to the bottom of the bottom of the ranking of the lowest events... which means less points earned if any etc....
WHY? just because you want a 3rd American man?

If it were up to me, nobody would even get 3 spots. So many sports can only send their top 1 or top 2 athletes. Look how crowded is ice dance with 3 Canadian, 3 French, 3 USA, and countries including russia and italy (both potentially top 10-12 teams) having two spots... Considering the French teams are younger, and only 1 may be top ten, you have 3 Canadians, 3 USA 1 French, 2 Italians, 2 Russians so already 11 teams fighting for the top 10.... where are the smaller fed teams? When you add the Danes, the Israeli, perhaps the Polish and the Ukrainians....then the younger 2 French teams... I don't see much of a chance for small federations to have a team earning a berth in the Free Dance... Once again.. points lost.... etc.... You want Australia to qualify for the team event... think about it.

A lot of merit in this post. Question: Why is 3 the right number for maximum spots? Why not 4? 5?

On another thread some time ago, a contributor advocated for assignment based on world ranking, which would mean many spots for Russian women. I'm against that, for many of the reasons you cite. I believe that respect for competitive skaters is important, but so is respect for skaters from weaker federations who need exposure and proximity to judges, fans, and better skaters. I want weaker federations to become stronger. If they are never invited to the "big dance" they don't get those things.

The current formulation is not perfect, but it's reasonable. Earn a medal and another Top 10, then you get the third spot. Have two skaters on the cusp of of the higher echelons (say 6 +7 or 5 + 8), then you get the third spot.

The formula makes the third spot achievable, but not easy.

 

[4everchan]

You do not see Denmark, Israel, Poland, and Ukraine as smaller Federations? Italy is not exactly huge. It is competitive. Spain & Slovakia would be in the hunt if their teams hadn't split up. I do see the top three spots as being a matter of having three athletes with a shot at a medal. And the U.S. & Canadian dance teams do all have scores that indicate a shot at a medal. (Seven of the top teams have a world medal and two others have defeated teams that have one in competition).

The U.S. men do not. (If the second spot is all about developing the future, then should all the experienced athletes hang up their hats and drop out of the running? I don't think so).

yes i do see these as small feds.... Italy a middle one.... but my point is that especially for ice dance, it's primordial to develop in asian markets and right now, the top 20 is crowded... imagine if Russia had sent B/S last year and earned 3 spots as well... one more team... the japanese and chinese teams are not guaranteed to make the Free Dance... it's so crowded that one year, a young but not known team from Canada didn't make the free dance... So, making earning the spots easier is a problem.

For the 3rd spot earning a medal, in my original post i had written that exceptionally right now, the US and perhaps even the Canadian Ice dance teams 3rd team could do so... (but again, previously for Canada, the 3rd team didn't make the FD).... same with Russian ladies... but most of the time, the 3rd single athlete or team is NOT really a shot at a medal.

I think you are not reading my post the way I intended it to sound like and honestly if I wrote it at 4am ,and it is a bit long and messy, it's confusing for me to read your reply. I am talking generalities here. I am talking about the fact that karne and some other USA posters talked long and large about the 3 spots for the USA. Many of them see it as a 3rd chance for a medal...

What I am saying is that the system is already quite generous and that the top 10-15 in each discipline is extremely crowded. Making it easier to earn more spots would mean that it's even more difficult for smaller federations... China missed their 3 spots in pairs. They do have 3 great teams capable of top ten and better. One of these teams will stay at home and that's too bad... but if the rules were easier, then not only China but other countries in all disciplines would earn 3 spots.... that's my point...

I was not trying to do a case by case study but was trying to talk in general.... In each discipline, with a magic number of 14 or 15 or even 16... you would definitely hurt the smaller federations because the top federations or the "middle or small one with a current expertise in one field" would keep filling the top 10-15 and with easier rules 20....

Who would make the free skates??? Would would earn points? Would would get GP assignments? That was my point... Not really did i want to discuss particulars and exceptions.. when did Canada have 3 ladies able to compete??? Yup it sucks we don't have 3 spots now, but the girls didn't need it before.... When did Canada have 3 extremely strong dance teams.... just this year when V/M came back... Before there were 2 ... So it's not serving to talk about the exceptional strength of a country in a discipline when it goes in cycles...as when strong, these countries still get their 3 spots... and when not, they won't... or their team spot will be a young team developing or whatever.... Russian girls were not always so strong.

 

[4everchan]

A lot of merit in this post. Question: Why is 3 the right number for maximum spots? Why not 4? 5?

On another thread some time ago, a contributor advocated for assignment based on world ranking, which would mean many spots for Russian women. I'm against that, for many of the reasons you cite. I believe that respect for competitive skaters is important, but so is respect for skaters from weaker federations who need exposure and proximity to judges, fans, and better skaters. I want weaker federations to become stronger. If they are never invited to the "big dance" they don't get those things.

The current formulation is not perfect, but it's reasonable. Earn a medal and another Top 10, then you get the third spot. Have two skaters on the cusp of of the higher echelons (say 6 +7 or 5 + 8), then you get the third spot.

The formula makes the third spot achievable, but not easy.

Thanks for understanding what I aimed to express.... I think I wrote my post too late but that's exactly what I mean. I think having a 4th or 5th spot would very difficult for the same reasons as making the 3rd spot more reachable.

No system is perfect for the simple reason that various countries have different peaks in different disciplines.... Ice dance is so strong right now in the USA... but that doesn't mean we should change the rules right? because it wasn't always that strong... I find the system to be working most of the times honestly. When it is heartbreaking it's when there is a flop from a top skater.... but that wasn't the case with US men... it was actually a surprised that all 3 ended up in the top 10.... so rejoicing seems more appropriate than nagging the system for not rewarding a "special" result.

 

[patinage_adulte]

Ziquan Zhao is back on the list instead of Zijun Li .... too bad for China not sure Ziquan and Xiangning can obtain 2 spots for Olympics
Zijun Li injured ?

 

[YesWay]

Ziquan Zhao is back on the list instead of Zijun Li .... too bad for China not sure Ziquan and Xiangning can obtain 2 spots for Olympics
Zijun Li injured ?

Oh no, Zijun...

I was really looking forward to seeing her skate in person... I hope it's not too serious.

 

[4everchan]

OH NOOOOOO!!!! Zijun!!!! NOOOOOO