2017 Worlds Men's SP

[padme21]

I must be the only one that really doesn't really like or get this season's SP. I think 2014s was much better. Likewise, I think Chopin was much better too. This season's is a little too much for me.. from the costume to the incorporation of a lot of voice lines.

You're not alone! I'm not a fan of Hanyu's SP either like his FS way more. Praying he'll pull through in the FS!

 

[Mathman]

What is there such a thing?

After your name is called, you have only a certain amount of time to settle into your opening pose.

 

[fallingsk8er]

Wow. Just watched the SP videos. I cant wait for the final group to skate. Any one of them could win, or not even medal.

 

[jaylee]

Patrick Chan's SP was beautiful. Hoping he has a clean FS. I think his FS is marvelous, but while his SP choreography is fine, I hope he gets something more exciting for the Olympics.

Jason Brown also had a terrific performance. Really lovely, but same as Patrick, hope he gets something really amazing for the Olympics.

Chen seemed nervous and a little tight. Shame about the 3A. Overall I would say this performance lacked the spark he had at Nationals and at 4CCs. I still believe he can quad his way onto the podium.

Boyang gave a terrific performance and it was great to see him connecting with the audience.

Shoma Uno's performance was nice and clean but it doesn't leave a lasting impact on me. It's surprising to look back and see that he's in second.

Denis Ten: Solid effort, weird/funky music edit and it got monotonous after a while. I think Daisuke Takahashi could've made this work better, but he gave it a good shot.

Overall, excited to see the men duke it out in the FS. There are so many different scenarios. Hanyu could come back in the long and dethrone everyone. Javier could win a third straight worlds (which is crazy given the amount of competition). Good luck to them.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

I do like the skater, he does have great artistic qualities and i've never complained his components but his TES is ALWAYS a joke.

48 for that technical content is a big mistake from the judges, he doesn't even have the best jumping technique in the world to justify that: Kolyada's 3A and 3Ltz are waaay better than Jason 3A and 3Ltz.

I thought their lutz and axel were scored pretty fairly. Kolyada's lutz was a +3 in my books (Jason's a +2), and Kolyada's 3A was a +1 to me and a +2 for Jason.

Kolyada has one of the best 3As when he hits it as well as he can, but I actually thought Jason's 3A today was like butter and deserved the GOE it got. Might not have been as huge as some of the other guys, but it was so neat and well-executed.

Brown is also a MUCH better spinner than Kolyada. Not to mention, better on footwork (Kolyada got a level 3). He scored about 2.23 points more than Kolyada on those, which closed the TES advantage Kolyada had doing a quad.

 

[jenaj]

15 point base value edge on whom? Chan maybe. No way in hell he has even close to that on Uno, especialy since Uno added a 4th quad didnt he. No he will never catch 7 points up on Uno if Uno goes clean, not a chance. Yes he might catch and pass Chan if both go clean with his huge base value edge.

Now I realize the proposed scenario (everyone going clean) will never happen, the only reason I mention it is more a scenario they make similar number of mistakes. Nathan would need both Uno and Hanyu to make more mistakes than he makes to beat either one considering how far ahead Uno is now, and considering clean or with the same mistakes Hanyu for sure beats Chen.

Uno's base value at Japan Nationals was 92.61 and 91.23 at 4CC. Chen's at 4CC's was 106.48--14 and a fraction. Not 15, but close.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

I would like to know, what think the guys who showed a good quad (Bychenko, Kerry, Kvitelashvili) abot the score for Brown.

They probably think: "Man, if I improved my overall skating to the level of Brown, along with the quad I did, I'd be in final flight contention!"

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Goddess me :shocked: Shoma got 2.29 for his 3A while Fernandez 3.00 ?? How is that possible? Kiddos was just robbed

Shoma's 3A was rather wild. You could see his landings weren't effortless and he had to fight to not overrotate and stepout. He's definitely performed that axel better, whereas Javier's axel was arguably the best I've ever seen him do it.

 

[Nika09]

I must be the only one that really doesn't really like or get this season's SP. I think 2014s was much better. Likewise, I think Chopin was much better too. This season's is a little too much for me.. from the costume to the incorporation of a lot of voice lines.

No actually, there are enough people who don't satisfy with this SP. But I like it. More than 2014s less than 2015s though. "Chopin" routine was and is A masterpiece in history of FS, no doubt.

Why does Hanyu keep going for 4S+3T instead of 4T+3T? It makes no sense. He's the best skater out there and just throws points away by trying an element he isn't as good with.

Fernandez was great but VERY overscored. He has the weakest spins of all the guys out there (and didn't even get punished for traveling like crazy on his flying spin) and he tripped on a basic crossover, which needs to be a deduction on his skating skills mark for sure. One of the judges gave him a +3 GOE for his combo spin, which is incomprehensibly stupid. His jump combo, axel, and footwork sequence do not deserve +3 and he got them across the board pretty much. I do really love his footwork sequence choreographically but the quality of his actual bladework is not +3 level.

Nathan Chen, still overscored, but I guess it could be worse. He isn't getting enough of a deduction on his Quad Flip for lack of preceding footwork and his PCS are too high. He somehow got his highest component on interpretation, which is easily his weakest component! Nonsensical.

Boyang Jin was held down on PCS for no reason. His skating skills are very good and he gave a lively, engaging performance. His movements are definitely not the most refined and stretched out, but he did a very good job. His PCS should have been above Nathan's.

Deniss Vasiljevs was great. He was of course underscored since he isn't a big-name skater and doesn't have a quad, but that was one of the best performances here.

Shoma Uno was the best here for me. He's an all-around excellent skater and gave the most refined performance of all, showing better skating skills and spins than Fernandez.

Very good competition!

++++1
Still can't understand his obsession with that combo. He was able to got enormous score s without it but still keep trying (even at Worlds) instead of putting jumps that he good with. It' seems like he just can't and don't wanna deal with this fact. But Brian?

 

[medvedevasocks]

Shoma's 3A was rather wild. You could see his landings weren't effortless and he had to fight to not overrotate and stepout. He's definitely performed that axel better, whereas Javier's axel was arguably the best I've ever seen him do it.

You have to admit in general though in comparision to Javier, Yuzura, and even Patrick and Nathan the way Uno is scored is less than generous. Has been the case since he first became a contender last season. I think it is the natural disadvantage of being his country and fed's #2 vs those other guys who are all their clear National #1 and receive all that backing, even if Spain doesnt have a super powerful fed.

 

[Ilvskating]

First, great competition! I like the general ranking, but have serious problem with Nathan's PCS which should be lower than Boyong's today but is 3 points above! Uno was great but the GOE on his jumps are way too generous.

Let's see if the judges get it better in the FS

 

[medvedevasocks]

Uno's base value at Japan Nationals was 92.61 and 91.23 at 4CC. Chen's at 4CC's was 106.48--14 and a fraction. Not 15, but close.

True, but hasnt Uno added a 4th quad for this event? So his base value will probably be closer to 100 now. although if Chan is now doing 6 quads maybe his will wind up close to a 115, I guess we will just have to see. Regardless I still think skating 2nd last Uno skating well and certain to get higher PCS than Chen with a good skate would stay in front given his current gap. Hanyu skating well will also beat Chen straight up, regardless of Chen's higher base value, Hanyu is still the only guy who has a ceiling of like a 220 score in the LP.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Yes, I know technical content was greater in terms of quads, but didn't Hanyu have a just 4-2 combo with a knee bend in between lasting long enough to make a full marriage proposal? (And of course Hanyu is a superior skater, I would never deny that.) They both had rather big mistakes though and Kolyada didn't. But yes, I'm happy for a good skate from both Russian guys! Very proud of Maxim for not popping any jumps. Congrats to him and his coach. That is huge progress.

Yup, and he was appropriately docked for it. Was marked -3's, and counted as an intended combo, but the 2T did not count because the boot was to the ice (lol, at the marriage proposal!). Everything else was solid too... and he gained a lot of points for that gorgeous 4L. Kolyada's 4T+3T was also a bit tight, hence the not so great GOE, but he got the job done and did it well enough to get some +GOE.

 

[tsuyoboogie]

Why does Hanyu keep going for 4S+3T instead of 4T+3T? It makes no sense. He's the best skater out there and just throws points away by trying an element he isn't as good with.

Fernandez was great but VERY overscored. He has the weakest spins of all the guys out there (and didn't even get punished for traveling like crazy on his flying spin) and he tripped on a basic crossover, which needs to be a deduction on his skating skills mark for sure. One of the judges gave him a +3 GOE for his combo spin, which is incomprehensibly stupid. His jump combo, axel, and footwork sequence do not deserve +3 and he got them across the board pretty much. I do really love his footwork sequence choreographically but the quality of his actual bladework is not +3 level.

Nathan Chen, still overscored, but I guess it could be worse. He isn't getting enough of a deduction on his Quad Flip for lack of preceding footwork and his PCS are too high. He somehow got his highest component on interpretation, which is easily his weakest component! Nonsensical.

Boyang Jin was held down on PCS for no reason. His skating skills are very good and he gave a lively, engaging performance. His movements are definitely not the most refined and stretched out, but he did a very good job. His PCS should have been above Nathan's.

Deniss Vasiljevs was great. He was of course underscored since he isn't a big-name skater and doesn't have a quad, but that was one of the best performances here.

Shoma Uno was the best here for me. He's an all-around excellent skater and gave the most refined performance of all, showing better skating skills and spins than Fernandez.

Very good competition!

No actually, there are enough people who don't satisfy with this SP. But I like it. More than 2014s less than 2015s though. "Chopin" routine was and is A masterpiece in history of FS, no doubt.


++++1
Still can't understand his obsession with that combo. He was able to got enormous score s without it but still keep trying (even at Worlds) instead of putting jumps that he good with. It' seems like he just can't and don't wanna deal with this fact. But Brian?

As it has been explained previously in a 4CC thread, Yuzuru's lisfranc injury last season was caused by overtraining the 4T. He relies instead on multiple 4S in his programs to avoid aggravating said injury as much as possible.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

You have to admit in general though in comparision to Javier, Yuzura, and even Patrick and Nathan the way Uno is scored is less than generous. Has been the case since he first became a contender last season. I think it is the natural disadvantage of being his country and fed's #2 vs those other guys who are all their clear National #1 and receive all that backing, even if Spain doesnt have a super powerful fed.

Haha, yeah, Javier has tons of clout with the ever-powerful Spanish federation, compared to the Japanese federation.

Well, technically he's the Japanese National Champion. Also, he got 45.70 PCS when his personal best before that was 44.31, and at this point, that's quite a jump in PCS (going clean with the 4F and 4T+3T helped)... and his jump landings were very measured and controlled and he didn't land them with the poise, flow and effortlessness of Javier IMO.

Uno also had one of the fastest rising PCS scores last season for a junior-turned-senior so it's pretty odd that you would say the judges have been less than generous.

With a score of 104.86 Uno smashed his personal best (100.28) by 4.52 points. Honestly, what more do you want? 49.9 PCS for Uno?

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

People who complain about American skaters can't make up their minds .

1. Nathan doesn't deserve such high PCS! It doesn't matter how many quads you do, PCS is different from TES and quads shouldn't determine PCS!

2. Jason doesn't deserve such high PCS! How can he get such high PCS without a quad!

3a. How does Jason get such high GOE on his jumps when they aren't as big as other skaters' jumps?? That's not fair!
3b. *someone else complains about Evgenia Medvedeva's jump GOE* She has very intricate entrances and exits that determine her high GOE on jumps! Look at the criteria! *ignores Jason's entrances and exits from jumps*

Haters be hating just to hate. Have some consistency.

Read them for FILTH.

 

[narcissa]

Protocols:
Fernandez's 3A. +3,00
Shoma's 3A: +2,29
Yuzuru's 3A: +2,71
What the hell, judges?
I agree about the final results but some GOEs are not understandable

this

 

[zschultz1986]

I thought their lutz and axel were scored pretty fairly. Kolyada's lutz was a +3 in my books (Jason's a +2), and Kolyada's 3A was a +1 to me and a +2 for Jason.

Kolyada has one of the best 3As when he hits it as well as he can, but I actually thought Jason's 3A today was like butter and deserved the GOE it got. Might not have been as huge as some of the other guys, but it was so neat and well-executed.

Brown is also a MUCH better spinner than Kolyada. Not to mention, better on footwork (Kolyada got a level 3). He scored about 2.23 points more than Kolyada on those, which closed the TES advantage Kolyada had doing a quad.

Yeah, and his quad combo was tight with a small run-out, which is why he got +1.14 GoE on it and not more.

Brown beat Kolyada's GoE on all elements except the lutz, because Kolyada's lutz was better. There's a reason Jason is in this position, and it's because he had the 3rd highest GoE of all the men. It is like they don't even see the quality right in front of them because he doesn't do a quad.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Im not saying kolyada was robbed. Kolyada needs to move to North American to find good coaches for pcs because his pcs is an extreme horrible disaster

This is not true. I'm always saying brown will place higher than others are saying because judges love him and his skating and jumps are meaningless for his success. I wish they were more important but many many ways to gather points.

Their showings were bad in many ways. Kolyada in pcs because he's not maximizing potential by having american coach and choreographer and kovtun for garbage jumps as always

True

I'm sure there are SOME Russian coaches who are capable of improving their PCS. But yes, Russian men haven't been known for having world-class choreography... and you can tell from both Kolyada and Kovtun's SPs.

LOL at Kovtun for garbage jumps. Clearly you were asleep during his 4-3 combo and 3A and are only noting the fall on the 2nd quad (which, mind you, Kolyada did not attempt). It must infuriate you that he didn't implode and didn't get sub-40 PCS like you think he deserves.

Brown placed high because what he did execute was executed well. Jumps clearly aren't meaningless to his success because he would be in the final flight if he had harder jumps. However, as Jason proved, easier difficulty executed very well can challenge high difficulty that's performed average/subpar. That program was absolutely exquisite... and his and Chan's sophisticated skates to close the night were sublime, and made skaters like Kolyada look like juniors -- not that Kolyada's cutesy/cheesy skate didn't already do that enough.

Kolyada still skated very well and got a personal best (PCS personal best too), so that's still an improvement and a good takeaway. But I don't get the people lamenting over him getting a personal best and not challenging the top group who all skated lights out with quads, and being scored on par with a skater like Brown who didn't have a quad but did practically everything else better than Kolyada.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Yeah, and his quad combo was tight with a small run-out, which is why he got +1.14 GoE on it and not more.

Brown beat Kolyada's GoE on all elements except the lutz, because Kolyada's lutz was better. There's a reason Jason is in this position, and it's because he had the 3rd highest GoE of all the men. It is like they don't even see the quality right in front of them because he doesn't do a quad.

Everyone on this forum knows that I'm all about skaters getting rewarded for higher difficulty. But Brown is an exception because, unlike most of the other guys, he seizes every opportunity to maximize his grade of execution. Let's not forget too that better, more aesthetic elements = better overall impression of the program, so higher PCS.