- Joined
- Oct 30, 2012
Any idea what Proklova is doing now? School? Coaching?
2018-19 Russian Ladies' figure skating
- Thread starter Spirals for Miles
- Start date
- Joined
- Sep 2, 2018
- Joined
- Oct 23, 2005
I find the discussion here somewhat ironic. I recall a conversation where people were pointing out that you cannot compare scores across events and that even Eteri said so. Now we are encouraging RusFed to give second assignments based on scores from different competitions.
Instead, I believe the totality of the circumstances should be considered in assessing the second placers, which includes an objective examination of their performances in their first event as well as their general qualities.
Let’s compare any mistakes made by each of the second place finishers in their events.
Tarusina was noticeably shaky on one jumping element in the free, which lost 14% in GOE. Her final spin in the free was invalidated but it was the coaching team’s fault for telling her to do the wrong spin, not a mistake Tarusina made on the ice.
Tarakanova did not complete a 3-3 in the short and had some general shakiness in the free, none of which resulted in negative GOE.
Kanysheva was seemingly perfect but had some uncalled URs. I realized last weekend after sitting through Ondrej Nepela and Autumn Classic that the JGP panels are not being nearly as diligent in calling them due to time with having so many competitors. I felt that I saw at least two in Kanysheva’s free and was wondering why they weren’t called. Now the reason they weren’t makes more sense, but they should have been and it still counts for something in my opinion.
I’d argue URs to be the most significant of the mistakes. But they weren’t called so I get it. Let’s say technically they’re even. Now we look at PCS and the skaters’ general abilities. And to me Tarakanova and Tarusina are pretty clearly superior to Kanysheva, whose free program bores me to death. She just skates around jumping with some ok transitions. Her consistency is decent but nothing to write home about. Meanwhile Tarusina nearly sets fire to the ice on her StSq in both programs and is second only to Trusova in consistency of the juniors. We can see all of this in the results from Elder Nationals. Likewise, Tarakanova has improved on the quality skating that got her a medal at last years JGPF. I think Kanysheva is good but way overhyped on here since getting her silver in Austria. What she did wasn’t that special compared to the rest of the Russian field.
In my opinion everything looks just right. Kanysheva and Vasilieva have been accurately deemed the lowest tiered skaters of the 8 (including Sinitsyna who is out due to missing silver) while Tarusina and Tarakanova are in the middle, Trusova, Shcherbakova, and Kostornaia are on top. And just as it is in the senior grand prix, to have the most build up for the final the top is seeded against the bottom and sometimes the middle while the middle is seeded together. This is why Medvedeva and Zagitova would never face each other outside of the final/Nationals/Euros/Worlds while people like Tsurskaya and Konstantinova can face each other whenever.
Thus, we have top seeded Kostornaia against bottom seeded Vasilieva, top seeded Trusova against bottom seeded Kanysheva, and middle seeded Tarusina and Tarakanova against each other. If Vasilieva goes clean she should take Kanysheva’s spot in Yerevan and will not need to compete back to back. I generally enjoy her and I felt she was amazing in PCS last week at the Moscow Cup event and also at nationals. You can tell she is a bit older, more experienced, and just generally better than Kanysheva. So I hope this is exactly what happens. She just needs to stay up. In the alternative Kanysheva can have Yerevan and I’m fine with that over Vasilieva, just not over Tarakanova or Tarusina.
Instead, I believe the totality of the circumstances should be considered in assessing the second placers, which includes an objective examination of their performances in their first event as well as their general qualities.
Let’s compare any mistakes made by each of the second place finishers in their events.
Tarusina was noticeably shaky on one jumping element in the free, which lost 14% in GOE. Her final spin in the free was invalidated but it was the coaching team’s fault for telling her to do the wrong spin, not a mistake Tarusina made on the ice.
Tarakanova did not complete a 3-3 in the short and had some general shakiness in the free, none of which resulted in negative GOE.
Kanysheva was seemingly perfect but had some uncalled URs. I realized last weekend after sitting through Ondrej Nepela and Autumn Classic that the JGP panels are not being nearly as diligent in calling them due to time with having so many competitors. I felt that I saw at least two in Kanysheva’s free and was wondering why they weren’t called. Now the reason they weren’t makes more sense, but they should have been and it still counts for something in my opinion.
I’d argue URs to be the most significant of the mistakes. But they weren’t called so I get it. Let’s say technically they’re even. Now we look at PCS and the skaters’ general abilities. And to me Tarakanova and Tarusina are pretty clearly superior to Kanysheva, whose free program bores me to death. She just skates around jumping with some ok transitions. Her consistency is decent but nothing to write home about. Meanwhile Tarusina nearly sets fire to the ice on her StSq in both programs and is second only to Trusova in consistency of the juniors. We can see all of this in the results from Elder Nationals. Likewise, Tarakanova has improved on the quality skating that got her a medal at last years JGPF. I think Kanysheva is good but way overhyped on here since getting her silver in Austria. What she did wasn’t that special compared to the rest of the Russian field.
In my opinion everything looks just right. Kanysheva and Vasilieva have been accurately deemed the lowest tiered skaters of the 8 (including Sinitsyna who is out due to missing silver) while Tarusina and Tarakanova are in the middle, Trusova, Shcherbakova, and Kostornaia are on top. And just as it is in the senior grand prix, to have the most build up for the final the top is seeded against the bottom and sometimes the middle while the middle is seeded together. This is why Medvedeva and Zagitova would never face each other outside of the final/Nationals/Euros/Worlds while people like Tsurskaya and Konstantinova can face each other whenever.
Thus, we have top seeded Kostornaia against bottom seeded Vasilieva, top seeded Trusova against bottom seeded Kanysheva, and middle seeded Tarusina and Tarakanova against each other. If Vasilieva goes clean she should take Kanysheva’s spot in Yerevan and will not need to compete back to back. I generally enjoy her and I felt she was amazing in PCS last week at the Moscow Cup event and also at nationals. You can tell she is a bit older, more experienced, and just generally better than Kanysheva. So I hope this is exactly what happens. She just needs to stay up. In the alternative Kanysheva can have Yerevan and I’m fine with that over Vasilieva, just not over Tarakanova or Tarusina.
- Joined
- Apr 17, 2018
I don’t think Vasilieva should and will take Kqnysheva’s spot. Kanysheva has it all, good jumps, fabulous skating skills and fine musicality. Nothing against Vasilieva but Alenka has earned that spot, she has the fourth highest score of a Russian Junior (should be fourth overall in juniors). Unless Vasilieva scores 192+, Kanysheva has earned that spot. A better choice would be to make Vasilieva compete back to back, tiring for her? Yes, but it’s the best strategy.
- Joined
- Aug 25, 2017
...no. First off, Kanysheva didn't UR at Linz, and her free skate is filled with examples of her divine skating skills and masterful transitions. It can't be to everyone's taste, but she's definitely not "just skat[ing] around with some ok transitions". Not at all. Kanysheva is also consistent. Perhaps Tarusina was more consistent last season, but it can't be denied that Kanysheva was clean at her JGP and Tarusina was not (even if you take out the spin error).
Even though Tarakanova didn't do a 3-3 in the short and was shaky in the free, she still beat Tarusina's score by 3+ points. With the silver medalists, it will come down to scores to break the ties, especially if Yelim gets another silver this week in Ostrava. Giving a second spot to a silver medalist with a lower score than another silver medalist is not productive, and could even risk a JGPF spot since all the silver medalist scores are so close together (186, 191, 191, 190). Tarusina, for example, would need to score five points higher than Yelim at her second event, whereas Kanysheva would only need 0.5 or so.
PCS wise, I would argue that Tarakanova and Kanysheva are about equal, with Tarusina just below them. Both Tarakanova and Kanysheva have very good skating skills, and Kanysheva probably has better transitions, which Tarakanova lost a lot of by moving from Eteri. Tarakanova has a more passionate and unabandoned style than Kanysheva, but both are fully committed in their performance and clearly have good musicality. Tarusina has good skating skills, just not as good as Tarakanova's or Kanysheva's, and decent transitions, again not as good as Kanysheva's.
I see no reason for Kanysheva to be a bottom seed. I would say right now that the top seeds are obviously Eteri's girls -- Shcherbakova, Trusova, and Kostornaya. Then our middle seeds would likely be Kanysheva and Tarakanova. Depending upon Vasilieva's JGP performance, whether she is clean or not, and her scores, she could move up here, or stay in the bottom seeds with Tarusina and Sinitsyna.
This is not to say that I hate Tarusina. In fact, I think I am one of her biggest fans! However, based on her first JGP performance, if Vasilieva delivers, it is only fair that she (she being Tarusina) is the first to go. Not Kanysheva, who out of the non-Eteri girls on the JGP this year, has the highest score. Just because she isn't to one particular fan's taste doesn't mean that she doesn't deserve a second spot (not to single anyone out, just me being a bit...confused... here).
- Joined
- Dec 21, 2017
I agree on most of your post, but we have to add something in the mix: Tie breaking
http://www.isuresults.com/events/jgp2018/jgpsladies.htm
If Yelim Kim will earn another silver, the other russians with a silver need to win their next competition, or the tie between them and her will make the points decisive, for decide who make the final.
The logic is pretty simple. Those are the tiebreakers:
- Highest placement at an event. If a skater placed 1st and 3rd, the tiebreaker is the 1st place, and that beats a skater who placed 2nd in both events.
- Highest combined total scores in both events. If a skater earned 200 points at one event and 250 at a second, that skater would win in the second tie-break over a skater who earned 200 points at one event and 150 at another.
So, in short, if you have 2 skaters with same placements, and only one can advance to JGPF, the one with highest combined total this advance.
That means that if you have skaters with lower amounts of points, which are the very cases we are debating, the ones who scored higher have better chances to advance to JGPF.
- Joined
- Apr 17, 2018
woah... why’d we go to 304 pages all of a sudden? It seems goldenskate just really doesn’t want us to reach 1000 huh?
- Joined
- Aug 25, 2017
Now it's at like 25 or 30 posts per page... so many!
and I for one would absolutely love an all-Russian final. Would be so exciting.
- Joined
- Aug 25, 2017
Most recent competition -- 1st stage of the Cup of Russia: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ynTswwjYSoA
At least we are still first =)
She moves a bit too slow for my liking, however she has very steady jumps and has an interesting look/form on the ice. Looks like a mini Evgegnia Tarasova
- Joined
- Oct 30, 2012
First time see her skating. Based on the video, she is pretty bland by Russian standards.
And I was proven wrong in my predictions
Starting orders are out http://ffkm.ru/images/files/018-19/2018-09-27_Sambo70/DR_Sambo70_Startlist.pdf
and there are no girls from Tudberidze group and almost no skaters from Khrustalniy at all. Frankly, I do not understand that. I simply does not make sense - not to compete in the biggest internal competition of your school.
Well, I will have to endure a long wait :disagree: before I see them in other competitions.
- Joined
- Aug 25, 2017
And I was proven wrong in my predictions
Starting orders are out http://ffkm.ru/images/files/018-19/2018-09-27_Sambo70/DR_Sambo70_Startlist.pdf
and there are no girls from Tudberidze group and almost no skaters from Khrustalniy at all. Frankly, I do not understand that. I simply does not make sense - not to compete in the biggest internal competition of your school.
Well, I will have to endure a long wait :disagree: before I see them in other competitions.
noooo.... I so wanted to see Akatieva and Zhilina :sad4:
- Joined
- Feb 22, 2014
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I loved her programs and look forward to seeing them again!- Joined
- Sep 20, 2018
Would much prefer to watch Kanysheva again at a second JGP/JGPF. She's an absolute gem while I personally find Vasilieva completely forgettable. Every time I hear somebody talk about her I have to look her up again just to make sure I've got the correct skater in mind.
- Joined
- Mar 24, 2017
I wouldn't go so far as to call Vasilieva forgettable, but I would also prefer to see Kanysheva again. Kanysheva has a very light style, good flow, and her jumps look airy and soft despite not being very high. And she listens to her music more than Vasilieva. I find watching that video of Vasilieva that she seems to have lost a bit of her trademark lightning speed. This is the Vasilieva I remember https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DYnMOu2FWWc
It shows how much things can change in a few months, because last season Kanysheva didn't make much of an impression on me, and I preferred Vasilieva
