2018-19 U.S. Ladies' figure skating

[oatmella]

I think Ashley is still competitive among US top ladies (and seems that many thought she deserved 3rd at nationals), but I don’t know if she wants to continue competing.

As for Karen, she said in a recent Chinese news interview that it would be difficult financially for her to continue skating until 2022.

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

As for Karen, she said in a recent Chinese news interview that it would be difficult financially for her to continue skating until 2022.

It's pretty crazy to think that someone at the top of her sport in the US can't even earn enough to cover her expenses. I wonder how many potential champions we lost in their early teens because the parents couldn't afford to pay for coaching.

 

[NanaPat]

In their Ice Talk interview, Megan Duhamel and Eric Radford talked about winning Worlds in 2016 and then struggling the following year. Megan said that after that, they wondered if they shouldn't have retired after 2016. But they were re-energized by the prospect of the Olympics (including the push for the team gold medal), made changes in their training, and staged a come-back.

Ashley also had a great result at Worlds in 2016, but wasn't re-energized for the Olympics in the same way. I don't really think she has the will to come back, though I'm ready to be proved wrong.

 

[Tahuu]

I think Ashley is still competitive among US top ladies (and seems that many thought she deserved 3rd at nationals), but I don’t know if she wants to continue competing.

As for Karen, she said in a recent Chinese news interview that it would be difficult financially for her to continue skating until 2022.

Could Karen switch to represent China or Twain? They could form a unified team like Korea by 2022. China is desperately in need of ladies singles for Beijing.

 

[concorde]

It's pretty crazy to think that someone at the top of her sport in the US can't even earn enough to cover her expenses. I wonder how many potential champions we lost in their early teens because the parents couldn't afford to pay for coaching.

Lots.

And it's not just about the $$, it also about the parent's commitment to the skater's ice skating career. By this I mean not just crazy practice times but also the support structure to keep the skater going day in, day out at the high pace. That is pretty much a full time job in itself. And that is before you get any injuries.

 

[chuckm]

Could Karen switch to represent China or Twain? They could form a unified team like Korea by 2022. China is desperately in need of ladies singles for Beijing.

I can't see USFS releasing former US champion Karen Chen to skate for China.

 

[oatmella]

Karen did a try out with Alex Ouriashev and sounds like we should be hearing more about that soon:

https://twitter.com/olyphil/status/1001535249615130624?s=20

 

[tothepointe]

It's pretty crazy to think that someone at the top of her sport in the US can't even earn enough to cover her expenses. I wonder how many potential champions we lost in their early teens because the parents couldn't afford to pay for coaching.

It hasn't seemed like she's been able to attract and maintain sponsors well.

Of course this does make me wonder if part of the quick dump of Wagner by the USFS was to push her to retire so hopefully some of her sponsors could be lured into supporting other skaters.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

It's pretty crazy to think that someone at the top of her sport in the US can't even earn enough to cover her expenses. I wonder how many potential champions we lost in their early teens because the parents couldn't afford to pay for coaching.

It would be a heaven send if we could figure out a way to involve an elite skating program into an educational institution. Like some elite prep school that accepts students who can benefit from an education and high level training both. This is how several hockey players have done it. It’s a safer investment that has potential return if the skating doesn’t pan out.

Seems to be a lot of resistance and skepticism to the idea though.

 

[skylark]

I mean, yeah Carolina wasn't dumped by her fed, but she also had better basics than Ashley and never flutzed or URed so that makes it a lot easier to come back and improve
Maybe I'm just too pessimistic but I don't think Ashley could compete for medals other than the occasional GP bronze or mayyyybe silver. Each GP field is so stacked it's hard to imagine her winning, and she has almost no chances of making the GPF. I don't think a worlds medal is possible unless it's in the US or Ashley somehow gets back to her Boston form

A lot of people want to see Ashley compete for what she does bring to figure skating. Medals may be everything to some people and to USFS, but if so, gambling on Karen, Bradie and Mirai wasn't productive either. Ashley and Bradie were the only US ladies to medal on the 2017 GP, and both bronze: Bradie at SA, Ashley at SC.

Ashley's lowest finish at Worlds since 2008 was 7th. Olympics too. Looking even just at 2018 results, that speaks of Ashley's continuing talent and potential to finish well internationally ... and to do it with style, emotion, and charisma, to boot.

 

[skylark]

Karen did a try out with Alex Ouriashev and sounds like we should be hearing more about that soon:

https://twitter.com/olyphil/status/1001535249615130624?s=20

This seems like very good news, to me! I'd hope she goes to Alex for help with jumps and stay with Tammy, as Alex's reported methods and personality (as per Gracie) might be a bit jarring for Karen. But on the other hand, possibly a jolt could be what she needs. Good luck to Karen, whatever she decides.

 

[kwanatic]

Karen was gifted a trip to the Olympic by us fed. She came into the season as US Champ and had arguably the worst season out of any of the top ladies. For all the talk of Ashley’s decline, Karen’s skating this past season wasn’t any better then Ashley’s imo. US fed blatanatly wants her to be the top lady but she’s had what three good competitions her whole senior career?

Maybe I’m just too big of a stan, but in a fair judging world I think if Ashley worked hard she could still contend for medals. Are her jumps really any worse then Carolinas when she first came back? But Carolina was never so harshly dumped by her fed ether. It
Would be hard to come back after going through that. At any rate, I hope Ashley does come back, not for medals or for the fed, but for herself and the love of skating, much like Carolina did. Even though she’s accomplished so much, I believe she still has things to give

I agree. I absolutely feel as though Karen was held up at nationals this year b/c the fed wanted her to go over Ashley. They made similar mistakes in the SP (both UR and stepped out of their combo) but Ashley had a stronger FS which should have given her the edge overall. The fed didn't see it that way and didn't give Ashley the boost they gave Karen. They wanted to push the younger talent so Karen got the favor and Ashley didn't.

Overall I think Karen is a better skater than Ashley...but Ashley is generally the stronger competitor. Even so, if the fed dumps you it's tough to succeed. You have to work twice as hard to prove you deserve to be back in their good graces. It's doable. Ashley has already done it once before...she'd have to do it again. That's the problem though. I don't feel as though she has another reinvention left in her at this point. The level of skating is so high nowadays and she has a long way to go to catch up. She could...but who knows if she even wants to.

As for the Carolina comparison, it's not the same. Over this past quad she hasn't been as strong as she was previously but, as the sole competitive elite skater for Italy, why would her federation do anything but support her? Even at her worst she's going to place better than the next best skater Italy has. Once she retires Italy will official fall off the map in women's singles. Her fed is likely doing any and everything they can to keep her competing as long as possible. No, Carolina isn't really technically competitive at this point but she can do enough to stay in the top 10 internationally.

 

[tomc100]

Figure skating used to be a popular and lucrative sports in the US. What happened? I admit I haven't really kept up with the sport in years since Michelle Kwan left who was making bank.

 

[Spirals for Miles]

IJS happened and the US refused to adapt until well after Sochi
Money happened and many if not most parents cannot afford to have their talented child continue skating
Other countries happened and they realized that we need centralized training and national team funding (of nearly everything) in order to make skating practical and successful
Coaches happened and refused to change from what worked before even though there was a new system

Yet, we still had good stars. We had Gracie, we had Ashley, now we're going to have Bradie, Alysa, Ting, the up and coming. So not all hope is lost.

 

[andromache]

IJS happened and the US refused to adapt until well after Sochi

Coaches happened and refused to change from what worked before even though there was a new system

Not sure I 100% agree with this narrative. In 2010, it could be argued that Frank Carroll did his best to maximize IJS by having Evan skate conservatively, backload, and utilize transitions. I think Plushenko would've won under 6.0, but Evan won under IJS.

By far the biggest failure for the US and IJS was the inability to adjust to the fact that underrotations started to matter a whole lot in 2008-2009, I believe. It was less about IJS as a whole and way more about those darn URs, which is why the ladies have struggled more than the men.

 

[Ice Dance]

The professional circuit died, taking skating out of the regular viewing of the audience. On television and on tour. Scott Hamilton stopped running Stars On Ice. The major amateur star, Michelle Kwan, elected not to go professional. Amateurs were invited to professional events so there was no incentive for athletes to turn professional, and then there was no money in it. ABC and ESPN ended their longterm skating contract, and skating got lost on cable stations that the majority of viewers couldn't afford and couldn't keep track of. And cable diversified the regular audience so that the happenstance viewers were much less likely to run into skating, even every four years. And the tried & traditional skating press refused to switch gears from highlighting U.S. Ladies skating, which no longer featured the most successful U.S. skaters, to ice dance, which had more historically been dominated by Soviet athletes.

 

[concorde]

I think the biggest challenge are the other sports that now compete against ice skating for young female athletes. As a kid growing up, girls did dance, gymnastics, swimming, and a couple did ice skating -that was about it. Now girls are doing soccer, softball, volleyball from the elementary school age. Those activities were "normal" activities when I was growing are now the outliers with swimming as an exception.

 

[kwanatic]

It's pretty crazy to think that someone at the top of her sport in the US can't even earn enough to cover her expenses. I wonder how many potential champions we lost in their early teens because the parents couldn't afford to pay for coaching.

It hasn't seemed like she's been able to attract and maintain sponsors well.

Of course this does make me wonder if part of the quick dump of Wagner by the USFS was to push her to retire so hopefully some of her sponsors could be lured into supporting other skaters.

It's because it's the US. Figure skating is not a big sport here at all, thus there's not a huge incentive for sponsors to put their money on the line (1) for a sport with a relatively small audience and (2) for a skater who isn't a factor beyond their own borders. I feel like if she were top 3 in Japan or Russia she'd likely be much better off b/c there's a huge market for figure skating over there.

Counting up her Challenger Series, GP and world placements, Karen has earned about $30,000 over the past 3 years. That's an entry level yearly salary...over 3 years. She's earned other money from appearances, shows and a few sponsorships but considering her training costs, costumes, travel and the ridiculous number of boots she's gone through over the years (skates are expensive!), I'd imagine just about everything she's made has gone back into her skating.

It really is insane when you think about it. Are there other sports as expensive as figure skating? Thousands and thousands of dollars shelled out for very little reward in the end. I guess if you have income like that to spend it's not a big deal but for the average person, coming off of an extra $35,000-$45,000+ annually with no return on that investment is not doable.

 

[mrrice]

Has Polina Edmunds made an official announcement on her plans for the future? After last season, I'm sure she must be contemplating her career.

 

[oatmella]

Has Polina Edmunds made an official announcement on her plans for the future? After last season, I'm sure she must be contemplating on her career.

No official announcement yet.