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- Feb 25, 2014
If I were C/P and M/C right now, I'd be prepping for NHK as if it was U.S. Nationals. The judges are pulling away hard from H/B, and that spot is really up for grabs now.
2019-20 U.S. Ice Dance
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While the marking for H/B in China wasn't generous, their low scores reflected their own errors more than anything else.
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- Feb 25, 2014
They skated better, probably closer to their best in Kelowna and still didn't make the podium. The judges used to be more generous with them.
Times are definitely interesting for US ice dance. The third spot seems like it will likely go to whoever is best on the day, but the judges don't seem to be going for H/B anymore. I would be curious to see how they score at home, but at last year's nationals, they scored closer to the 4-7 teams than H/D and C/B.
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While I agree that H/B are not a guarantee for third at the upcoming US Nationals, I'm not ready to say that International judges are dumping them. They've made mistakes and their scores have reflected that. Also as the third US team, they don't have the reputation that H/D or C/B have. As for their competition, M/C are currently out with an injury and in the past a few posters here and at FSU have claimed that M/C's future was doomed because they spent too many seasons at the junior level. How quickly some people forget their assertions. Their other main competition, C/P are progressing well but they haven't been overwhelming at their competitions either.
So what are we supposed to think? I don't want to draw any conclusions now about what's going to happen in a couple of months. Programs can develop, things change and most of the time your standing depends on how a team skates at Nationals. That's how it should be.
So what are we supposed to think? I don't want to draw any conclusions now about what's going to happen in a couple of months. Programs can develop, things change and most of the time your standing depends on how a team skates at Nationals. That's how it should be.
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They aren't "officially" in, but there's no realistic scenario where they're not.
I think all three teams--H&B, M&C, and C&P--are legit. That on a given day with a different set of performances at a different stage in their training with a different set of programs or a different judging panel in a different environment and/or under a different set of pressure, expectations, and opportunity, the results could be different between these three teams.
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Agreed that each of the three teams have different strengths. M/C are pretty sharp technically and have interesting difficult elements that I sometimes don't see other teams doing. They are noticeably weaker in performance, and tend to lean on more bland lyrical programs compared to the more dynamic, character-driven H/B programs. It's also safe to say that H/B have a more practiced showmanship because they have more competitive experience and some of the performance polish from the Montreal camp. They do tend to make mistakes and are not the strongest technical skaters as a couple. C/P have an intangible "wow" factor and chemistry between them but can sometimes get too caught up and make careless errors. Some of the scoring, especially in PCS, will come down to preference.
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- Feb 27, 2012
Good luck to all at the U.S. Ice Dance Final this week. :yay:
The junior competition will be a chance for almost everyone to go head to head before Nats.
(The exception being Avonley/Vadym, who have a bye to Nats.)
(A small field for seniors, because the most well-known U.S. senior couples have byes to Nats.)
A lot of competitor information (and other information) is on ice-dance.com's microsite devoted to U.S. Ice Dance Final.
Q and A with junior couple Layla Karnes and Kenan Slevira:
C/B currently are second in the GP rankings with 26 points.
After Rostelecom, if S/K and G/P both place in the top two there (as is likely), then both couples will be ahead of C/B in ranking points.
The following scenario at NHK would be unlikely, but iffff:
The junior competition will be a chance for almost everyone to go head to head before Nats.
(The exception being Avonley/Vadym, who have a bye to Nats.)
(A small field for seniors, because the most well-known U.S. senior couples have byes to Nats.)
A lot of competitor information (and other information) is on ice-dance.com's microsite devoted to U.S. Ice Dance Final.
Q and A with junior couple Layla Karnes and Kenan Slevira:
C/B currently are second in the GP rankings with 26 points.
After Rostelecom, if S/K and G/P both place in the top two there (as is likely), then both couples will be ahead of C/B in ranking points.
The following scenario at NHK would be unlikely, but iffff:
P/C place third; S/B second; F/G or G/F first … then they all would have 26 ranking points ... two couples (P/C and F/G or G/F) would win the first tiebreaker over C/B … and it would come down to the second tiebreaker for C/B vs. S/B.
But again, the first part of this scenario is third place for P/C -- which would be unlikely.
But again, the first part of this scenario is third place for P/C -- which would be unlikely.
My head was spinning a bit (in a good way
) from your second sentence, but totally agree. I would personally add Green & Parsons to that group as a spoiler, even tough I'm probably a minority of one.- Joined
- Feb 25, 2014
You haven't seen much of these two teams' body of work, have you?
Do you find it useful this season to talk about what M/C did as juniors (which, yes, I've seen - they are my favorite of the three teams being discussed)? And there's equally not much use in discussing what H/B did before they went to Gadbois - they didn't go to that camp to do the same types of programs. Both teams have undergone artistic shifts. If we're going to pretend that M/C are going to go back to the cyberpunk style they did before, then be my guest. I'd prefer to comment on the programs they're choosing to do in most recent years to distinguish themselves in the U.S. field.
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I have to say I agree but both would need to be real lucky to overtake H/B. I still think they are the better skaters.
Do you guys think H/B will change their FD?
No. I think they will polish to improve the GOE and take a good analytical look at the protocols to see if there are places outside of the obvious mistakes from this last competition that might require tweaking, switching out or fine-tuning an element, or some such. (What I would really love to see would be for H&B to add more personality & humor to the FD, as I think this program is a nice change for them and is quite good now but it could be great then). Earning high GOE in the FD is where their bread is buttered relative to these two younger teams so H&B need to maximize that. And what they really need to improve are their footwork & pattern levels.
I assume they will drill those, but they can't count on besting M&C and C&P on the levels. (These teams are still a bit up & down also, but both are capable of bringing those levels in. I don't see much evidence of your argument that H&B are better skaters. At least not from international protocols). I think if one of these young teams does achieve an upset that it will be anything but luck. These are three high quality teams that have worked very hard for years developing their skills, developing together as teams, and competing in tough national and international fields. They have all defeated and lost to almost identical lists of international teams.
(For a handy display of why one should not change one's program late in the season post-GP and prior to Nationals, I recommend a tour of Soucisse & Firus's and The Parsons' free dances from last year's Nationals
).In response to the other poster's comments above, I always find it useful to look at a team's greater body of work. It tells me a lot about how far the dancers have come, how they are developing, what they excel at, what they are capable of in the future, how they are stretching, why they are tackling the skills they are now, what feedback they have probably received, & how they are attempting to respond to it. (I also recommend going back and looking at H&B's program from last season and M&C's senior program from the year prior). I do think it would be great if M&C would tackle a different style and/or quirky or dramatic storytelling program next season as I think they excel at that and there is/was no need to do lyrical two years in a row. And I am glad to see Hawayek & Baker finally breaking away from the style they have done in the FD for six seasons. I hope they will look at the obstacles they are currently facing as a challenge worth tackling. All three of these teams have so much talent and also a lot to learn.
I like H/B but I think one of their big issues this year is they aren’t getting levels and good GOE on many elements, especially the finnstep pattern and their step sequences. I think precision is more the problem than the programs themselves. Although I have to say I’m a bit thrown off by the free dance costumes, they look like they came out of Dark Shadows and I’m kind of distracted thinking ‘what exactly is the inspiration for this dance?’ Are they vampires, is she Elvira? If they had simpler costumes I think my reaction would be ‘ok it’s a flamenco with Mozart mixed into the Spanish guitar to give it some uniqueness’ and I’d be on board. But with the costumes being such an over the top look it makes me think they’re channeling something specific, and it’s not coming across which makes me think less of the dance.
I think they could still maintain their number 3 spot this year, especially if they improve on their levels. But looking towards Beijing 2022...at this rate I see potential for them to be passed by C/P or M/C by 2022. Not to mention Green and Parsons had a promising start and Avonley will be senior by then and will be pushing the teams in front of them as well. US ice dance is deep and it’s not going to get any easier to make that team.
