2019-20 U.S. Ladies Figure Skating

[drivingmissdaisy]

Is it me or does the US seem to be finally building up the lower ranks with first Alysa and now with Levito and Kalin in the pipeline? It's to early to know what the future holds but it's great to see such talent at such a young age. It's not Russian depth yet but seeing these girls doing jumps and combos that in past years US Junior ladies champions couldn't do tells me that things are heading into the right direction. The days of a US Junior lady winning the US Junior title at 17 or 18 without all the triples or a 3-3 combo may be over.

It is looking promising, but I do care more about having strong senior skaters than junior skaters. Aside from Alyssa, none of the US Juniors are doing much more than Caroline Zhang did when she was a junior. A lot of skaters since then, like Ashley, Gracie, and Mirai, ended up accomplishing more than Caroline despite having less impressive junior results. Look at Rika; she's unquestionably been one of the top skaters in the world this past year, and her junior results wouldn't have foreshadowed that success at all. I'd like to see our juniors attempt the difficulty, but only if they learn the jumps in a way that will sustain them through their growth.

 

[natsulian]

Bradie Tennell recently posted on Instagram, captioning:

Finally kicking the boot! I now I've been kind of MIA [missing in action] but I've really been focusing on my recovery. Unfortunately not quite in time for the Autumn Classic, but I want to wish everybody who is competing the best of luck!!!

It seems like she's fully recovered and ready to tackle the new season. Best of luck to her.

Link: https://www.instagram.com/p/B2VGH1-FJUt/?igshid=w52wmx3hn9ve

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Kate Wang and Audrey Shin will compete their Short in Russia tomorrow.

Starr Andrews and Megan Wessenberg will compete their Short tomorrow in Italy for the Lombardia Trophy.

Karen Chen will skate her Free second to last for the Autumn Classic tomorrow.

Best of luck to the U.S. ladies.

 

[mrrice]

It is looking promising, but I do care more about having strong senior skaters than junior skaters. Aside from Alyssa, none of the US Juniors are doing much more than Caroline Zhang did when she was a junior. A lot of skaters since then, like Ashley, Gracie, and Mirai, ended up accomplishing more than Caroline despite having less impressive junior results. Look at Rika; she's unquestionably been one of the top skaters in the world this past year, and her junior results wouldn't have foreshadowed that success at all. I'd like to see our juniors attempt the difficulty, but only if they learn the jumps in a way that will sustain them through their growth.

After seeing what happened with Caroline I couldn't agree more.

 

[Steinbeck]

[/B]

After seeing what happened with Caroline I couldn't agree more.

There's absolutely no comparison between Caroline Zhang and today's juniors. As a junior, Caroline did ALL DOUBLES and one triple in her freeskate at Nationals. As juniors this season, Kate (13) and Mia (11) have been doing 6- and 7-triple programs for two seasons already, and have two 3-3s in their freeskates now. Isabelle Inthisone also (I think) has 6-7 triples and at least one 3-3, as does Lindsay Thorngren. Not sure about Isabeau because I haven't seen a recent protocol, but she appears to have gotten a 3Lz, which Caroline didn't even attempt at Nationals as a junior. I know there are others (forgive me for leaving them out).

Our present junior ladies are wayyy ahead technically, and some of them are jumping nice, big jumps that will likely withstand their growth. My hat is off to them!

https://www.usfigureskating.org/Content/events/200506/uschamps/junior-details.pdf

 

[natsulian]

Kate was simply great today and was quite underscored. Poor Audrey received -6 in deductions and didn’t quite recover after the fall on the 3Lz+3T. Best of luck to both in the Free.

 

[Fool]

Kate was simply great today and was quite underscored. Poor Audrey received -6 in deductions and didn’t quite recover after the fall on the 3Lz+3T. Best of luck to both in the Free.

Do you know what happened to her blade/boot? I thought she was stunning (hadn't seen her before), and even with the interruption she was great. Hope the best for her in the Free as well! ETA: Audrey I mean.

 

[skatenewbie]

Kate was simply great today and was quite underscored. Poor Audrey received -6 in deductions and didn’t quite recover after the fall on the 3Lz+3T. Best of luck to both in the Free.

Kate jump good! but she did lose points on spins level and GOE. Her PCS is weak and is reflected on the score, maybe 1 or 2 point higher at max

 

[gkelly]

There's absolutely no comparison between Caroline Zhang and today's juniors. As a junior, Caroline did ALL DOUBLES and one triple in her freeskate at Nationals.

I am taking no position on the substance of the comparison.

However, I think that the people making a comparison between Caroline Zhang as a junior are referring not to her 2005-06 season when she was 12, but to the 2006-07 season at 13 when she dominated the JGP and won Junior Worlds, or possibly when she returned to Junior Worlds at 14 in 2008 and placed second with 3F+3T in both programs.

Also, when looking at the protocols from 2006 Nationals that you linked, keep in mind that at that time there was no < symbol to indicate downgrades. Any triple deemed short of rotation by more than 90 degrees would have been indicated in the protocol as a double -- there was no way to know from the protocols alone which were true double attempts and which were triple attempts that got downgraded. Negative GOEs could be a clue.

The < symbol for all jumps short more than 90 degrees was introduced for the 2006-07 season.
The << symbol and the distinction between downgrades and underrotations was introduced for 2010-11.

 

[Steinbeck]

I am taking no position on the substance of the comparison.

However, I think that the people making a comparison between Caroline Zhang as a junior are referring not to her 2005-06 season when she was 12, but to the 2006-07 season at 13 when she dominated the JGP and won Junior Worlds, or possibly when she returned to Junior Worlds at 14 in 2008 and placed second with 3F+3T in both programs.

Also, when looking at the protocols from 2006 Nationals that you linked, keep in mind that at that time there was no < symbol to indicate downgrades. Any triple deemed short of rotation by more than 90 degrees would have been indicated in the protocol as a double -- there was no way to know from the protocols alone which were true double attempts and which were triple attempts that got downgraded. Negative GOEs could be a clue.

The < symbol for all jumps short more than 90 degrees was introduced for the 2006-07 season.
The << symbol and the distinction between downgrades and underrotations was introduced for 2010-11.

Thank you for that history and perspective (and by the way I did not mean this as a negative expression against Caroline as a skater—only that technically, current skaters are a lot further along technically now and that it’s wrong to say these current girls “don’t have much more than Caroline had as a junior”. I hope it didn’t come across wrong!).

I looked up the results for 2007 Junior worlds, and Caroline did not do a triple triple in either the short or the long. http://www.isuresults.com/results/wjc2007/.

 

[Mathman]

I think that the people making a comparison between Caroline Zhang as a junior are referring not to her 2005-06 season when she was 12, but to the 2006-07 season at 13 when she dominated the JGP and won Junior Worlds,

In the 2006-07 Junior Grand Prix, Caroline won one event by 53.60 points the second by 36.33 points, and the Final by 20.67 points.

By the way, "miss consistency" posted scores of 162.43, 162.42, and 162.68 -- then (no doubt with end of the year inflation ) 169.25 at Junior Worlds.

Just to note how times change, that year U.S. junior skaters took the first four placements at the Junior Grand Prix Final and also swept the podium at Junior Worlds (with Ashley Wagner and Mirai Nagasu).

You just never know things will work out. At the 2006 Junior Grand Prix Final in ice dance, the gold medal went to Madison Hubbell & Keiffer Hubbell, while Emily Samuelson & Evan Bates took the silver. It wasn't until the next season that Madison Chock & Greg Zuerlein came on the scene. And the next year after that Piper Gillis & Zach Donohue were in the mix.)

 

[truthbooth]

Kate jump good! but she did lose points on spins level and GOE. Her PCS is weak and is reflected on the score, maybe 1 or 2 point higher at max

Yeah, I agree. Kate skated very well today, and major congratulations to her for that. However, I don’t think she was underscored on spins or PCS. She moves pretty slowly across the ice and doesn’t have great ice coverage. This is definitely something to work on for the future, but the jumps look solid and consistent!

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

Thank you for that history and perspective (and by the way I did not mean this as a negative expression against Caroline as a skater—only that technically, current skaters are a lot further along technically now and that it’s wrong to say these current girls “don’t have much more than Caroline had as a junior”. I hope it didn’t come across wrong!).

I looked up the results for 2007 Junior worlds, and Caroline did not do a triple triple in either the short or the long. http://www.isuresults.com/results/wjc2007/.

Here is here LP from 2009 Jr Worlds: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KxyH8z-sIVA

3F-3T, 3Lz, 2A, 3F, 3Lo, 3S, 3Lo-2T-2Lo

 

[KatGrace1925]

Gracie Gold’s quad lutz on harness looks better than most men’s quad lutzes. I hope to see it out of harness in person someday.

 

[skatenewbie]

im curious to see what Gracie and her team plans. If she didn't try to qualify for nationals this season then i think they might plan to compete in 2020/2021 season, when her jump is more consistent and might have 3A/quad that they are working now. It's not a bad plan imo, but she need good result almost right away, since her goal is 2022 Olympic

 

[princessalica]

Gracie is supposed to be taking over Brad Griffes instagram and is supposed to answer questions. She very well might be planning on going to Regionals - I'm curious is anyone has any info.

 

[Jammers]

It is looking promising, but I do care more about having strong senior skaters than junior skaters. Aside from Alyssa, none of the US Juniors are doing much more than Caroline Zhang did when she was a junior. A lot of skaters since then, like Ashley, Gracie, and Mirai, ended up accomplishing more than Caroline despite having less impressive junior results. Look at Rika; she's unquestionably been one of the top skaters in the world this past year, and her junior results wouldn't have foreshadowed that success at all. I'd like to see our juniors attempt the difficulty, but only if they learn the jumps in a way that will sustain them through their growth.

But anyone who knows anything about this sport could see that Caroline no matter how dominate she was as a Junior had some serious issues with her jump technique and speed and was going to have a hard time as she got older. These girls coming up seem to already have better jump technique then Caroline and there is time to work on the other things and if you can't jump you aren't going anywhere in this sport.

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

im curious to see what Gracie and her team plans. If she didn't try to qualify for nationals this season then i think they might plan to compete in 2020/2021 season, when her jump is more consistent and might have 3A/quad that they are working now. It's not a bad plan imo, but she need good result almost right away, since her goal is 2022 Olympic

If she's training the 3A, 4S, and 4Lz in a harness now, it would be nice to see her start competing again soon. She needs none of those jumps to be in the top tier of US women, and I think the sooner she's able to compete and get some of those jitters out of her system, the better. Her coach posted a video of her doing a 3Lz in the last day or two, and it was about as easy and smooth as I've ever seen her do it. I know she wants to do her comeback on her own terms, but I'm just afraid if she delays her comeback too long, it could get derailed if she ends up with an injury that keeps her off the ice for a couple of months (or longer). When will we know whether she enters the Nationals qualifier events?

 

[Jammers]

I really can't see Gracie doing any kind of quad and especially at her age and not really competing for two years now. Gracie at 15, 16 probably would be working on quads if she was coming up now considering her raw athletic jumping talent but she's obviously not 16 anymore.

 

[natsulian]

As Mirai taught us, age has nothing to do with the jumps one can learn. Gracie is 24, around the same age that Mirai was when she learned and landed the 3A. Anything is possible and even more-so when you have the raw athletic power that Gracie possesses.

 

[Mathman]

But anyone who knows anything about this sport could see that Caroline no matter how dominate she was as a Junior had some serious issues with her jump technique and speed and was going to have a hard time as she got older.

Although ... I think all that is easier to see in retrospect than it was at the time.