2019 Judging and Tech calls discussion
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Amber Glenn's Toe was within the 1/4 rule when her toe pick hit the ice. As far as her loop, it was under the allowed 1/4 rotation. 1/4 under goes to the skater. The panel isn't there to remove points, they are there to see how many points they can give a skater! When something is flagged for review, their job is to see how many points they can give them for an element.
If they flagged everything for review, they would be there all day! They must choose only the items that look in real time to be under or not at level.
If they flagged everything for review, they would be there all day! They must choose only the items that look in real time to be under or not at level.
If you count the angle that they're going into the jump, then I'd say Young and Wakaba were borderline but yes I'd agree that Rika's and Kaori's were under. Not sure how Kaori got away with hers, it's a pretty obvious one.
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angle that they're going into the jump, call it moment of initiation of a jump
If since this moment there is 2 and 3/4 of rotation before the first touch of blade and ice, this can be judged as clean jump and from this point of view Kaori's loop is borderline, but can be justified
If since this moment there is 2 and 3/4 of rotation before the first touch of blade and ice, this can be judged as clean jump and from this point of view Kaori's loop is borderline, but can be justified
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No, there wasn't. I think there were maybe one or two debatable URs. But If Jackie Wong doesn't see them too, it's believable. He is usually good at that in real time.
Some people are advocating for that (being there all day). Thankfully, the judges (and the ISU, apparently) are not as obsessed with achieving 100% accuracy in findIng underrotations as some fans.
Higuchi had deep outside edge on her flip http://prntscr.com/qyprmd
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Also, Rika's URed 3T as well
https://ibb.co/my5CC30
With proper calling would she be able to get even 70+ score, I wonder? Poor Tennell.
https://ibb.co/my5CC30
With proper calling would she be able to get even 70+ score, I wonder? Poor Tennell.
I checked Rika's 3A. It's tight, but you could argue that the rotation is bang on at 1/4 short, so if you want to call this one UR, you're going to have to call a LOT of other jumps UR as well. And trust me, you wouldn't like the result.
Rika's 3T is fully rotated, I have no idea what you're on about there.
You wanna mention Bradie? Bring it.
3Lz!<+3T<
2A
3F
That's if you judge using the same criteria you're judging Rika's 3A. Poor Rika? With a UR call on a 3A, she'd get about 6.4 for the jump, so minus 3.6, she's sitting on 77.5. A 3Lz!<+3T< for Bradie is looking at a GOE of -5, quite honestly, with three errors. That'll drop her combination score to about 5.7, which would cost her 6 points, dropping her to literally 70 points.
Rika's 3T is fully rotated, I have no idea what you're on about there.
You wanna mention Bradie? Bring it.
3Lz!<+3T<
2A
3F
That's if you judge using the same criteria you're judging Rika's 3A. Poor Rika? With a UR call on a 3A, she'd get about 6.4 for the jump, so minus 3.6, she's sitting on 77.5. A 3Lz!<+3T< for Bradie is looking at a GOE of -5, quite honestly, with three errors. That'll drop her combination score to about 5.7, which would cost her 6 points, dropping her to literally 70 points.
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The particular user you are responding to has special glasses that increase the rotation and fix the edges of Russian skaters but do the opposite to skaters from all other federations. I wouldn't argue with that user, just block them (as I did) so you don't have to be bothered by the ridiculously biased posts.
Anyway, Rika's 3A and Bradie's 3T looked fine in real time. As does Bradie's edge..Wakaba's 3F is (even in real time) obviously on the wrong edge. The caller was generous to give her a ! and not an e. I wonder why she does a flip in the short. She could do a 3Lo and still be very competitive because her jumps are huge and deserve high GOE.
Anyway, Rika's 3A and Bradie's 3T looked fine in real time. As does Bradie's edge..Wakaba's 3F is (even in real time) obviously on the wrong edge. The caller was generous to give her a ! and not an e. I wonder why she does a flip in the short. She could do a 3Lo and still be very competitive because her jumps are huge and deserve high GOE.
Wakaba just doesn't seem comfortable with the loop. They keep puting it in and then going back to the flip anyway. The most obvious miss of the night was Kaoris UR non call.
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Why not? Euro's TP worked exactly like this. And we both know that there are lots of skaters trying to get required tech minimum score or season's best score - to qualify for the Worlds or GP events next season. But with so different standarts of judging we have now a situation when ladies in 4CC has unjust advantage over ladies in Euro. That, and good luck in convincing in your point of view about leniency to Rika or Bradie - Karen Chen, for example - who got her 3Lo< call. That's the problem - even inside the same competition despite presumed TP leniency - and therefore presumed right opportunities for all - there will be skaters with different standarts of strictness applied to them. It's reputational calling, pure and simple.
Hm, let's see.. Oh, you completely right! Tennel indeed had 3Lz!<+3T< combination! Sorry, my mistake
I admit I didn't have time to check all her jumps in slo-mo and relied on my real time impressions. Of course, contrary to what some people here implies, - TP should check jumps and make calls based on slo-mo and slo-mo only 
Hm, now I am confused, tbh. It seems you indeed know how to properly determine URs. In that case why you have so selective view of particular skaters jumps, I wonder? :scratch3: For example
sound really strange to me. I mean - it's pretty common occurrence that skaters changes direction of jumps inside combination more often than not. In case of Rika - she jumped first jump more along the board, and second jump - she changed direction a little bit more towards the board. It should be really obvious for anyone with minimum experience of jumps analyzing :confused2: Well, this change of direction probably will be more obvious from alternative angle:
https://youtu.be/eOTc-YVLA5I?t=82
https://ibb.co/80hH2NT first touch of the ice
https://ibb.co/TPxwr35 second touch of the ice (when she transferred more weight on the blade)
Both frames are still under.
From the same alternative angle:
https://youtu.be/eOTc-YVLA5I?t=57
https://ibb.co/YtJgYNj
3A
Moreover, her 3F is URed too. She jumped 3F<+3T< combination - similarly to Bradie:
One angle https://ibb.co/dbwgkpG
Another angle https://ibb.co/N3MdWWL
The only jump Rika could rotate in her SP - is her 3Lz.
Rika is a threat to the Russians, so she needs to be judged more strictly.
Yes, you are completely right
Unfortunately, with such judging - she indeed can be a threat to Russians. And indeed - to avoid situation when Rika with a skate full of uncalled URs can win over clean skate with made up URs she needs to be judged with the same standart of strictness as Russian ladies such as Zagitova and Scherbakova are judged this season. Else it will be disgrace of figure skating as competitive sport.You would have enjoyed Japanese Nationals. They hammered everyone there. I think Sakamoto got like 4 or 5 urs in her LP.Why not? Euro's TP worked exactly like this. And we both know that there are lots of skaters trying to get required tech minimum score or season's best score - to qualify for the Worlds or GP events next season. But with so different standarts of judging we have now a situation when ladies in 4CC has unjust advantage over ladies in Euro. That, and good luck in convincing in your point of view about leniency to Rika or Bradie - Karen Chen, for example - who got her 3Lo< call. That's the problem - even inside the same competition despite presumed TP leniency - and therefore presumed right opportunities for all - there will be skaters with different standarts of strictness applied to them. It's reputational calling, pure and simple.
Hm, let's see.. Oh, you completely right! Tennel indeed had 3Lz!<+3T< combination! Sorry, my mistake [emoji3] I admit I didn't have time to check all her jumps in slo-mo and relied on my real time impressions. Of course, contrary to what some people here implies, - TP should check jumps and make calls based on slo-mo and slo-mo only
Hm, now I am confused, tbh. It seems you indeed know how to properly determine URs. In that case why you have so selective view of particular skaters jumps, I wonder? :scratch3: For example
sound really strange to me. I mean - it's pretty common occurrence that skaters changes direction of jumps inside combination more often than not. In case of Rika - she jumped first jump more along the board, and second jump - she changed direction a little bit more towards the board. It should be really obvious for anyone with minimum experience of jumps analyzing :confused2: Well, this change of direction probably will be more obvious from alternative angle:
https://youtu.be/eOTc-YVLA5I?t=82
https://ibb.co/80hH2NT first touch of the ice
https://ibb.co/TPxwr35 second touch of the ice (when she transferred more weight on the blade)
Both frames are still under.
From the same alternative angle:
https://youtu.be/eOTc-YVLA5I?t=57
https://ibb.co/YtJgYNj
3A
Moreover, her 3F is URed too. She jumped 3F<+3T< combination - similarly to Bradie:
One angle https://ibb.co/dbwgkpG
Another angle https://ibb.co/N3MdWWL
The only jump Rika could rotate in her SP - is her 3Lz.
Yes, you are completely right
To be honest, I enjoy those too. It's fairer that way.
Young You's URed 3A got GOE +4
https://gifyu.com/image/7bPQ
Compare to URed Kihira's 3A (GOE +3)
https://gifyu.com/image/7zHl
Sakamoto's "unclear" edge on 3Lz
http://prntscr.com/qzbafe
https://gifyu.com/image/7bPQ
Compare to URed Kihira's 3A (GOE +3)
https://gifyu.com/image/7zHl
Sakamoto's "unclear" edge on 3Lz
http://prntscr.com/qzbafe
Higuchi landed 2 nice one's in warm ups and she did rotate the one she fell on, so there is hope.
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