2020 Four Continents: Ladies' Short Program

[Mathman]

Ahhhh there's even a mistake in the quote they used in the opening post

"... for the free skating," said the shared the 2019-20 Grand Prix finalist. "I still have ..."

It seems clear to me that the original was either "said the" or else "shared the" (shared meaning that she shared this insight with the interviewer). On proofreading the author decided to change it, but forgot to delete the original.

I think you have to take into account the shear volume of interviews and articles that the GS writers bring to the forum almost instantly after each segment of each event and featuring quotes from many skaters. Things slip by when proofreading for a deadline.

This post was edited by Mathman to correct a couple of typos.

 

[deedee1]

For me Kaori's and Bradie's were the 'Best performance of the Night'! Loved Amber Glenn's emotional skate, despite popping Axel. And Karen was a joy to watch. She matured A LOT since the Olympics. :thumbsup:
Great job done, Ladies!

 

[jenaj]

I was a bit disappointed in this segment of the competition. None of the skates really wowed me. Karen Chen was lovely, as usual, and she landed all of her jumps (though not 100% clean). Good for her. Bradie was Bradie. I think her PCS was a bit high for that skate. I kind of dozed off during Kaori's and Wakaba's skates. And then there was Rika. Johnny Weir thought her 3A was UR and two-footed. Maybe. The two-foot, if that's what it was, was just the slightest nick by the toe-pick. But whatever, she still deserved first place because even a flawed 3A is worth more than a 2A. My bigger issue with Rika is her program and her packaging. That music is very avant garde and it was brave of her to use it but I just don't think it works for her (or any skater). She does perform it well but the wailing and repetition of the music just grates. As for her "packaging," that dress does nothing for her. It looks heavy and long and certainly adds nothing to the program (maybe she needs a snake dress like Madison Chock's, since her music sounds like snake-charmer music--just kidding!). And that pony-tail with the flowery do-dad. It is all very juvenile. I know she likes that look, but maybe she needs an intervention (or a meeting with Frank Carroll)--? Her former training mate Satoko Miyahara was always packaged so well, so it can't be the fault of her team. Rika is such a big talent and has excellent skating skills and jumping ability, but I fear she will be held back by poor choices in her music and (though unfair) her styling.

 

[jenaj]

I wouldn't argue with this poster. They always like to point out the issues with the judging of non- Russian skaters and point out fake URs this person but they complain when a real UR called against a Russian skater. Don't waste your time arguing. Ignoring is best !

Agree! Thank goodness for the Ignore List.

 

[jenaj]

I scrolled through and I don’t think anyone questioned why gorgeous Karen is in 8 place? Am I not seeing wrong edges or ur calls? Is she being underscored because she’s not a full timer in the fs world? Scoring wonks please tell me if she was scored fairly here? She is truly a total package skater. I loved her sp.

She was definitely underscored in PCS.

 

[Joekaz]

She was definitely underscored in PCS.

Its definitely a disadvantage to not be in final group. Btw Higuchi was underscored too.

 

[skylark]

[Karen Chen] was definitely underscored in PCS.

Its definitely a disadvantage to not be in final group. Btw Higuchi was underscored too.

What's happening is what S. Bianchetti warned about when IJS was being proposed. Judges have to look down to punch a button and enter a number after each element. So they miss some or all of the "in-betweens" that create connection, mood, nuance ... and basically everything else that goes into presentation. Each judge also has to guard against being too far off the evaluations of other judges. So they have to go with "reputation" judging for PCS.

Karen was out all of last year and had major issues for a couple of seasons before that. She hasn't performed well internationally at International comps this season, till this 4CC. So the judges almost had to go with her recent reputation, not so good. The poor judges don't have our advantages, of seeing the whole program. I don't follow Wakaba, so I can't comment on her recent skating.

I had an "Eyes On" experience of this while watching the men's SP earlier today. One of the men (sorry, can't remember who) skated straight toward the judges, and the camera caught him, with a judge in the foreground of the camera shot. The judge, a woman, clearly was looking down to punch in her score for the element that he'd just done. She missed a dazzling smile from the skater, with a bit of interpretation or performance. It only lasted a second or two, but she couldn't have seen it, because he'd skated away before she looked up.

We all have problems with PCS scoring, but if we throw it out, we're relying on "skate jumping" and other not-so-objective technical scores. As I watched the last half of the men's SPs, I was happy for Jason's PCS that kept him up with the leaders. But it also made me sad that your name has to be Jason Brown, or Yuzuru Hanyu, or (fill in the blank) to attain scores that fairly measure presentation, which are only fair, and they're in line with where our priorities need to be, since figure skating is a performance sport.

 

[KatGrace1925]

Lol? Rika was seen trying quads back in 2016/2017. Also, three triple axels and a quad salchow (8*3 + 9.7 = 33.7) are harder than two quad lutzes and two double axels (2*(11.5 + 3.3) = 29.6). Only Sasha can actually claim to have a more difficult program than Rika, and look at what attempting five quads has done to her.

Go to https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dbkYpCI5Jyk
Look at 2:40:05. One moment, you see Rika gliding along and smiling. A few seconds later, Bradie comes along and Rika instinctively flinches. Bradie is literally turning right into Rika's path here. Right after, you can see Eunsoo Lim braking to a halt as she sees Bradie. I'm sure Bradie sees everyone; she's just inconsiderate and self-centred here.

At nationals some fans noticed Bradie doing the same thing to other skaters at practice. She does seem to be unaware and inconsiderate in general.

 

[KatGrace1925]

What's happening is what S. Bianchetti warned about when IJS was being proposed. Judges have to look down to punch a button and enter a number after each element. So they miss some or all of the "in-betweens" that create connection, mood, nuance ... and basically everything else that goes into presentation. Each judge also has to guard against being too far off the evaluations of other judges. So they have to go with "reputation" judging for PCS.

Karen was out all of last year and had major issues for a couple of seasons before that. She hasn't performed well internationally at International comps this season, till this 4CC. So the judges almost had to go with her recent reputation, not so good. The poor judges don't have our advantages, of seeing the whole program. I don't follow Wakaba, so I can't comment on her recent skating.

I had an "Eyes On" experience of this while watching the men's SP earlier today. One of the men (sorry, can't remember who) skated straight toward the judges, and the camera caught him, with a judge in the foreground of the camera shot. The judge, a woman, clearly was looking down to punch in her score for the element that he'd just done. She missed a dazzling smile from the skater, with a bit of interpretation or performance. It only lasted a second or two, but she couldn't have seen it, because he'd skated away before she looked up.

We all have problems with PCS scoring, but if we throw it out, we're relying on "skate jumping" and other not-so-objective technical scores. As I watched the last half of the men's SPs, I was happy for Jason's PCS that kept him up with the leaders. But it also made me sad that your name has to be Jason Brown, or Yuzuru Hanyu, or (fill in the blank) to attain scores that fairly measure presentation, which are only fair, and they're in line with where our priorities need to be, since figure skating is a performance sport.

I think the system needs a revamp, that it would be nice if there could be two panels. A technical and a PCS panel. So the Technical could focus on the elements and the PCS panel could take in the full performance then make their marks after it ends.

 

[Joekaz]

What's happening is what S. Bianchetti warned about when IJS was being proposed. Judges have to look down to punch a button and enter a number after each element. So they miss some or all of the "in-betweens" that create connection, mood, nuance ... and basically everything else that goes into presentation. Each judge also has to guard against being too far off the evaluations of other judges. So they have to go with "reputation" judging for PCS.

Karen was out all of last year and had major issues for a couple of seasons before that. She hasn't performed well internationally at International comps this season, till this 4CC. So the judges almost had to go with her recent reputation, not so good. The poor judges don't have our advantages, of seeing the whole program. I don't follow Wakaba, so I can't comment on her recent skating.

I had an "Eyes On" experience of this while watching the men's SP earlier today. One of the men (sorry, can't remember who) skated straight toward the judges, and the camera caught him, with a judge in the foreground of the camera shot. The judge, a woman, clearly was looking down to punch in her score for the element that he'd just done. She missed a dazzling smile from the skater, with a bit of interpretation or performance. It only lasted a second or two, but she couldn't have seen it, because he'd skated away before she looked up.

We all have problems with PCS scoring, but if we throw it out, we're relying on "skate jumping" and other not-so-objective technical scores. As I watched the last half of the men's SPs, I was happy for Jason's PCS that kept him up with the leaders. But it also made me sad that your name has to be Jason Brown, or Yuzuru Hanyu, or (fill in the blank) to attain scores that fairly measure presentation, which are only fair, and they're in line with where our priorities need to be, since figure skating is a performance sport.

You could be on to something. The PCS is definitely a reputation score right now( GOE seems to be going that way too btw). Wakaba is an excellent example. 2 seasons ago she was Japans best during the GP season and won silver at worlds. At that time her PCS would be higher than both Sakamoto and Tennell. She hasn't been very competitive the last 2 seasons due to injury and accompanying jump issues. She seems to have gotten healthy again at the end of this season and won silver at Japanese Nats and was excellent in the short with just an unclear edge call in a fine performance. However both Bradie and Kaori, who both have had good success the last 2 seasons, outscored her in PCS ( and GOE). At least Bradie was clean, but Sakamoto made an error on her last jump. Both of them, while fine technical skaters, are stiff in the upper body and not smooth athletically. So to me it is obvious and the skaters seem to understand it as well.

 

[skylark]

I think the system needs a revamp, that it would be nice if there could be two panels. A technical and a PCS panel. So the Technical could focus on the elements and the PCS panel could take in the full performance then make their marks after it ends.

Ironically enough, that was what Bianchetti said she recommended at the time. (I think her name is Sonia Bianchetti. She was high up in the figure skating organizations/circles at the time. Maybe someone will correct me if I'm wrong.) TSL did a long interview with her when TSL was Jenny Kirk and Dave.

 

[KatGrace1925]

Ironically enough, that was what Bianchetti said she recommended at the time. (I think her name is Sonia Bianchetti. She was high up in the figure skating organizations/circles at the time. Maybe someone will correct me if I'm wrong.) TSL did a long interview with her when TSL was Jenny Kirk and Dave.

I was 11 when the scoring system was revamped so I have no idea what happened just that after 2002 everything changed. I remember knowing about the scandal and why things changed but I know nothing about the discussions that took place.