2021 World Team Trophy - Day 2

[ladyjane]

AFAIK, it’s still a good payday for the skaters, which is always nice. And it’s a good payday ( less, but good) even if you don’t medal, which is even nicer. All skaters work so hard.

God bless Japanese sponsors

I like it that all teams - not just the medallists - get handsomely paid. From the ISU site:


Prize Money

The teams will compete for a total prize money of 1,000,000 US$, made available by the organizing ISU Member, Japan Skating Federation (and secured through ISU agreements).

The prize money is awarded as follows:

1st placed team: US$ 200’000

2nd placed team: US$ 170’000

3rd placed team: US$ 160’000

4th placed team: US$ 150’000

5th placed team: US$ 140’000

6th placed team: US$ 130’000.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

I agree that the inability to compete has hurt the Canadian skaters’ ability to prepare and compete.

So I was misunderstanding “overly” strict, because actually I am pretty impressed by Canada’s seriousness in its response to the pandemic. I mean this is WTT, fun, cute costumes, good for PBs if you can get them, and skating. And that‘s coming from someone who likes the comp.

and I happened to be awake and saw the last four skaters, which is highly unusual for me. I think it’s better for Jason when I sleep,

This competition is a wash for the Canadian team and clearly intended to give international experience in a no-pressure environment to the skaters who didn’t get to go to Worlds. That being said, I did hope for better for Nam/Roman - it’s kinda sad that Italy with only one competitor earned more points in the FS than both Canadian men (although Roman had a lovely SP and both did manage to execute quads and still “have it”, they just need to get it together). Also pleasantly surprised to see Schumacher going for the 3-3 like we saw with Schizas in the Worlds SP. Def a rebuilding phase for the canucks (and we’ll never get as hardcore as Russia for a while) but there is some young talent in the wings.

 

[LadyB]

AFAIK, it’s still a good payday for the skaters, which is always nice. And it’s a good payday ( less, but good) even if you don’t medal, which is even nicer. All skaters work so hard.

God bless Japanese sponsors

and I’m glad for you your Russian boys did well, I know you must be happy.

I am indeed

 

[Jammers]

The US should have had the silver medal all wrapped up by now but with the weaker US Ice Dance team finishing 3rd in both portions and K/F getting beat by a Japanese Pairs team of all things they now will have to fight for it.

 

[museksk8r]

The US should have had the silver medal all wrapped up by now but with the weaker US Ice Dance team finishing 3rd in both portions and K/F getting beat by a Japanese Pairs team of all things they now will have to fight for it.

Bradie and Karen also underperformed in the SP as did Jason in the LP. I haven’t jumped on the Alexa/Brandon bandwagon yet, but it blew my mind that some people were already predicting or expecting them to potentially be top 5 in the world already in just their first season. A reality check is definitely in order. Sadly, all the American pairs struggle with consistency in international competition and no team should be considered a lock for the Olympics at this point. More than any other discipline in the US, I think those 2 Olympic spots will be decided at Nationals because no team has really stepped up to the plate internationally as legitimate challengers to M-T/M, which has been the goal of the USFSA. K/F, C-G/L, and C/J are all pretty evenly matched. I keep hearing people say give Alexa and Brandon more time, but the truth is this team is attempting the same level of technical content they always have while the top teams in the world are passing the US by with more difficult technical and artistic content. The choreography and transitions of Alexa and Brandon are very basic compared to the top teams in the world and these two are considered very experienced veteran competitors. The US is really going to have to step everything up to challenge for top 5 in the World looking at all the top pairs teams from Russia and China.

 

[Tavi...]

I think that Slaughter requires more quickness without the difficulty of Sinnerman. It may be a choice to subtlely acclimate Jason for the quick snap he needs for the quad in the program. Knowing how much he likes the jumps to be well timed musically, the music may help him time the edges, takeoff and rotation for the quad.

The thing is, the choreography is pretty busy and almost... fidgety (without being very interesting) from start to finish, so even if the quickness does help with the quad timing (I’m not a good enough skater myself to know) the nonstop fast pace appears to have made it more difficult for him to do the rest of his elements cleanly. In all three outings of this program (Nats, Worlds, WTT) he made uncharacteristic errors on other jumps and even spins, and his triple axels don’t look as good as they did last season. I’ll be glad to see the end of this program!

 

[Seven Sisters]

I haven’t jumped on the Alexa/Brandon bandwagon yet, but it blew my mind that some people were already predicting or expecting them to potentially be top 5 in the world already in just their first season. A reality check is definitely in order. ..

The hype really has been over the top, hasn’t it. You would have thought that this new team was the second coming of Volosozhar/Trankov. Mid-career pairings like that, which make everybody immediately sit up and take notice, are pretty rare.

I just watched the Pairs SP on replay and I’d say that though Knierim/Frazier look fine for. a first-year team, they are not world-beaters and also, out of everyone here, the French pairs team was the one I’d want to watch again. We might even have a spectacular new pairs lady in the making there!

 

[fzztsimmons]

The thing is, the choreography is pretty busy and almost... fidgety (without being very interesting) from start to finish, so even if the quickness does help with the quad timing (I’m not a good enough skater myself to know) the nonstop fast pace appears to have made it more difficult for him to do the rest of his elements cleanly. In all three outings of this program (Nats, Worlds, WTT) he made uncharacteristic errors on other jumps and even spins, and his triple axels don’t look as good as they did last season. I’ll be glad to see the end of this program!

I will be happy to see it go too (and fingers crossed replaced by Schindlers List). Whilst I’ve enjoyed certain transitions and choreography, the tempo and performance seems to have detracted from Jason’s excellent execution which we all know he needs for his GOE and to match the other quadsters. Schindler’s List gives him the opportunity to breathe and show off his extension without hurriedly moving from position to position.

Sad that Jason didn’t have the skate he wanted but generally most of the men had a bit of a disaster so he wasn’t alone in that.
I will say though I found Simon Reed’s comments quite disrespectful - that Jason had “let down Team USA” and “no one has demonised him for it yet”... wtf?? Like firstly this is World Team frigging Trophy, it isn’t reaaaally a real competition (with combined totals Jason would have been higher up as someone else tallied above). Secondly, I’m sure Jason is disappointed about his skate, for himself AND for his team. Probably if anyone, Jason is most dedicated to the idea of Team USA. Thirdly why should he be demonised for it? Because he had a bad skate?? Who would want to even demonise Jason who is the nicest, happiest, kindest person ever?
I’ve tried to give Simon leeway as a fellow Brit but honestly his commentating has made me uncomfortable this event. Bring back Mark

 

[snowflake]

Jason's artistry + Nathan's quads = ?

Well, this world is not perfect and we cannot have everything.

What? I love Nathan's cool relaxed artistry. He's young and can already manage various styles along with his quads. Waiting for more in years to come

 

[alexaa]

What? I love Nathan's cool relaxed artistry. He's young and can already manage various styles along with his quads. Waiting for more in years to come

He is probably going to taking a break or retire after next seazon.

 

[TontoK]

I disagree with some of what has been said.

I think Jason's free program is wonderful. The music is familiar... but not really too much... like a semi-lost memory I'm trying to recall. The choreography is complex without looking busy. The elements are blended well. Jason delivers it stylishly. It is a stark contrast to the emo-anguish programs that pass for artistry nowadays. There is nothing wrong with that program - he just didn't skate it well.

Far be it from me to defend WTT, which is - hands down - the most ridiculous competition of the year. I watch it because of the individuals - not the team thing. But, if you're going to go with the middle school "team" hype, complete with wigs and pompoms, then you have to be prepared for the team-focused criticism. Jason's 8-of-11 finish was bad for the team, end of story. His wasn't the only result that was bad for the team - but that doesn't change things about his showing.

Simon's comments were not out of bounds.

 

[sworddance21]

The US should have had the silver medal all wrapped up by now but with the weaker US Ice Dance team finishing 3rd in both portions and K/F getting beat by a Japanese Pairs team of all things they now will have to fight for it.

I really don't understand why Hawayek and Baker are so underrated. I find them mesmerizing.

 

[el henry]

This competition is a wash for the Canadian team and clearly intended to give international experience in a no-pressure environment to the skaters who didn’t get to go to Worlds. That being said, I did hope for better for Nam/Roman - it’s kinda sad that Italy with only one competitor earned more points in the FS than both Canadian men (although Roman had a lovely SP and both did manage to execute quads and still “have it”, they just need to get it together). Also pleasantly surprised to see Schumacher going for the 3-3 like we saw with Schizas in the Worlds SP. Def a rebuilding phase for the canucks (and we’ll never get as hardcore as Russia for a while) but there is some young talent in the wings.

Absolutely and I think this is a good competition for the Canadians to get that experience.

IMO, it would have taken a disaster of unmitigated proportions for Russia *not* to win this comp. They're taking it seriously, they sent their A team on private jets, they sent all their coaches. Good for them, and of course it's going to work for them.

Every other country, frankly, sent at best the B team or maybe the A minus team. If the US Fed cared about winning this comp, they would have sent Madi and Zach, their best ice dancers in a discipline in which the US excels. They did not. (And I really really like Kaitlin and JeanLuc and their programs. But within the politik of ID, they are not the A Team, sadly)

Does anyone remember what country won 2019 WTT? 2017? I don't. But I do remember performances. And KnC's.

 

[ladyjane]

2019: USA first, Japan 2nd, Russia 3rd.
2017: Japan first, Russia 2nd, USA 3rd.

 

[el henry]

I disagree with some of what has been said.

I think Jason's free program is wonderful. The music is familiar... but not really too much... like a semi-lost memory I'm trying to recall. The choreography is complex without looking busy. The elements are blended well. Jason delivers it stylishly. It is a stark contrast to the emo-anguish programs that pass for artistry nowadays. There is nothing wrong with that program - he just didn't skate it well.

Far be it from me to defend WTT, which is - hands down - the most ridiculous competition of the year. I watch it because of the individuals - not the team thing. But, if you're going to go with the middle school "team" hype, complete with wigs and pompoms, then you have to be prepared for the team-focused criticism. Jason's 8-of-11 finish was bad for the team, end of story. His wasn't the only result that was bad for the team - but that doesn't change things about his showing.

Simon's comments were not out of bounds.

Simon's comments that Jason did not perform up to Jason's standards are not out of bounds. And it's true, in the FP, he could have without mistakes placed higher and it is disappointing he did not. However, I find the "no one has demonized him for it yet" to be a bit OTT. No one at this comp is going to demonize Jason, or anyone else for that matter. and as I said in another post, if the US Fed really cared about winning, they would have sent their top rated ice dancers.

If this were a traditional comp with combined scoring, Jason would have placed fifth, which is I think where the majority of fans would have placed him. Jason overperformed in the SP and underperformed in the LP.

But for many reasons, I do wish Mark Hanretty had done the commentary.

 

[ladyjane]

I was working today when the competitions took place, and for once not at home but in the office (felt like an 'outing' in these times) and I did read some of the comments on the competition but wasn't able to watch any programmes. So, I'm watching everything this evening.

I started with the Pairs.
I thought it was great to see Lori-Ann and Thierry. They might not have had any competitions this season (except for Challenge) but they did well. Oh, I realise much needs to be done, but though they were the first with a fall, there were going to be more. I saw improvement since the last time I saw them. Never mind that they were last here. Nothing to be ashamed of.

Cleo and Denys were a nice surprise today. They haven't got all the levels yet, but they had a clean programme and it looked good. Not so polished as some, but way better than at the WC. I hope they'll go to Nebelhorn and get their Olympic qualification! Really looking good. Her emotions were so moving. Started crying myself as I always get sentimental at such moments.

Alexa and Brandon were enjoyable to watch, although the fall on the throw was unexpected. Alexa seemed to be happy afterwards in any case.

Just as at the WC, Riku and Ryuichi impressed me. Great lift. As at the WC this couple was very close to the Americans. But this time the Japanese got slightly more points. And in this particular competition, it's the standing that counts in this specific programme, not the points for the programme. Good for them! Japan third in the Pairs SP. Has that ever happened before?

Nicole and Matteo are never boring, and if they manage a skate without a fall (even though the throw was not good, it was landed on two feet) they are just great. The speed in the lift is fantastic. Good programme for them.

Anastasia and Alexandr weren't perfect as Alexandr doubled his Salchow. Reminds me of a certain German/French skater who also did that at the Olympics.... They were great fun though. Still the best programme of the day, and deservedly in first place.

Short (pun intended) competition but really nice. Great to see. Enjoyed all the skaters.

 

[Tavi...]

I disagree with some of what has been said.

I think Jason's free program is wonderful. The music is familiar... but not really too much... like a semi-lost memory I'm trying to recall. The choreography is complex without looking busy. The elements are blended well. Jason delivers it stylishly. It is a stark contrast to the emo-anguish programs that pass for artistry nowadays. There is nothing wrong with that program - he just didn't skate it well.

Far be it from me to defend WTT, which is - hands down - the most ridiculous competition of the year. I watch it because of the individuals - not the team thing. But, if you're going to go with the middle school "team" hype, complete with wigs and pompoms, then you have to be prepared for the team-focused criticism. Jason's 8-of-11 finish was bad for the team, end of story. His wasn't the only result that was bad for the team - but that doesn't change things about his showing.

Simon's comments were not out of bounds.

Well, whether it’s a good or a bad program - a chacun son goût, right? But it’s not just that he didn’t skate it well here - it’s that he hasn’t skated it well all season. By that I mean he’s made a series of dumb mistakes with it. In two out of three outings he’s gotten no credit on one of his spins, lost levels on other spins, popped his 3A, and fallen. He also lost a level on his step sequence once and doubled his 3T in combo once. Put it this way: At 2020 4CCs, he scored 180 in the FS with a popped 4T and no other errors I can recall. At Worlds 2021 he scored 170, and today he scored 160. Yeah, the pandemic is probably a factor, but at least IMO, this program is also problematic.

 

[SkatersWaltz]

"The minor falls"... and she fell

I totally noticed that too. They must have thought of that possibility. If it was a "major fall" and a minor lift then that would have been problematic.

 

[metconahay]

It's amazing that Nathan Chen's "watered-down" version of his free program still has 4 quads, and, considering the quick turnaround time from Worlds, even more amazing that he was able to skate it basically clean

 

[ladyjane]

I've just been watching the men's event, and though it was again interesting it wasn't as fantastic as it was during the SP yesterday. Still, some really nice moments (and skates). I'm going through the skates by country though that wasn't the order of skating.

Why is Nam skating to such music? It's not him, and it shows. Better than yesterday, but definitely not his best. I wish he would skate to 'get back' again. That was fitting. Enjoyable, even with mistakes. And Roman? Sniff, sniff. Such a lovely skater but when the technique is lacking, it's just not good enough. Love his shirt though (I know many posters don't agree, but I just love pink on a man. One of my former colleagues used to wear it a lot, and it was just great).

Daniel, yay! Bit of redemption here, even if there were some under rotations. I've seen him do better in this programme, so that's a good perspective for the future. Now, for some more skating skills... I was pleased for him after yesterday's debacle.

Adam and Kevin both did a good job. Adam needs some polishing, but the basics are there. Kevin was mesmerising as aways. Not perfect maybe, but his interpretation was excellent. I love the Lighthouse programme. So fitting for him. Another yay!

Hurrah for Evgeni and Mikhail! And for Mishin of course. Evgeni had the only truly clean skate of the event, but he got a bit low balled on the points. True, his PCS should be lower than Shoma's, but this big of a difference? Feels wrong. Mikhail was fantastic. I know, a bit of the old stamina issues but that didn't take away anything of the beautiful programme. The finesses of the skating, the details. I liked the shirt he wore earlier in the season better though.

Shoma had a bit of redemption too, but just not enough. Two falls! But, kudos for going for the 3A-4T. What a combination if successful. I hope he'll stick with it, and try again. Yuzu skated this programme lot better than at the WC. Now, I was into it. Sure, there was a pop but as a whole it was rather interesting.

I truly hope Jason goes for something new or back to Schindler's list in the upcoming season. The last always moved me, and this programme just doesn't. He's still fabulous Components wise, but it doesn't have the spark for me. Not that Schindler's list was a sparky programme, but it sucked you in (in a positive way) and you were surprised when it ended. Nathan did it again. Not as technically sound as at the WC, but better in the rest of the programme (yes, that's possible). I felt his components definitely deserved to be high today. Good ending of the men's competition.

All-in-all: not as good as yesterday but still a great event. Some redemptions, but also some negatives.