2021 Worlds are still on

[ice coverage]

... So apparently the once who already had covid recently doesn´t need to test either. ...

If you mean before entering the bubble, you are wrong. See especially Step 1 below. Emphasis not added:

"PROTOCOL: Positive PCR COVID-19 test in an asymptomatic person who has had a COVID-19 infection in the past

For person who has been previously infected by COVID-19 and is showing no signs or symptoms, the following protocol must be followed to decide whether or not his/her accreditation to enter the ISU Bubble can be delivered.

1. This person must stay in quarantine in his/her hotel room for at least 48 hours, during which time another PCR test will be conducted. Further testing for antigens and/or antibodies, Cycle threshold (Ct) values, may also be required.
2. Check the medical status of this person, including previous PCR tests and any other COVID-19 tests/analysis (antigen/antibody tests), Ct values, medical reports, cardiac exams etc. from his/her physician. The onsite test result(s) will be compared to all other previous COVID-19 results provided.
3. The medical cell will review the onsite results and the person will be monitored for the development of any signs and symptoms.
4. In harmony with the measures of the national health authority in force, a decision will then be made whether the person may/may not be released from the quarantine and enter the competition Bubble.
Comments: This protocol can be amended at any time to comply with the local Health Regulations and/or include the latest medical knowledge.

https://isu.org/docman-documents-li...rson-with-covid-19-infection-in-the-past/file (Feb 15)​

Also, in the Health Regulations for 2021 Worlds, I see no exemption from the requirement that "Every Event attendee, requesting an accreditation, must present a negative Covid-19 PCR test taken no more than 48h prior to arrival in Stockholm."

... So when the protocols allows skaters to compete with symptoms as long as they test negative ...

The Health Regulations for 2021 Worlds are not really clear on this point.

The regulations have repeated mentions of requirements for daily health questionnaires before entering the venue; and temperature checks before entering the venue.
Also:
"Note: Each ISU Member’s designated Covid-19 Contact Person is responsible to send to the ISU Medical Advisor any information related to any symptoms (such as: a fever, dry cough, headache, loss of smell & taste, shortness of breath, diarrhea or vomiting) or to a positive test for Covid-19, as well as any non-compliance with the measures contained in this protocol of a Team Member (not filling in the health questionnaire, not taking PCR tests, not observing the contact limitations, bubble concept zones...)."
"The Team Leader/contact person must make sure that each Team Member/Event attendee gets checked/screened daily for suspicious clinical signs (fever, dry cough, etc..) and fills in the online ISU Covid-19 Health Questionnaire daily. The Team Leader or designated Covid-19 contact person must communicate any information related to symptoms (such as fever, dry cough, headache, etc) to the OC Medical Team/ISU Medical Advisor without delay after obtaining knowledge of the information"

"BEFORE ARRIVAL AT STOCKHOLM WC2021
- If a person shows symptoms of Covid-19 (such as fever, dry cough, headache, loss of smell & taste,shortness of breath, diarrhea or vomiting) after a negative PCR test prior to departure to Stockholm for the WC2021:

the person in question is not authorized to travel nor to attend the WC2021"​

Although the next part is not clear, it does *not* (IMO) seem to *guarantee* that a negative PCR test would be sufficient to allow a person with symptoms to skate:

"UPON ARRIVAL IN STOCKHOLM AND DURING CHAMPIONSHIPS WEEK
If a person shows symptoms of Covid-19 upon arrival in Stockholm/during WC2021:
The respective person will be isolated, and a Covid-19 PCR Test will be done as decided by the OC Medical Team/ISU Medical Advisor. The respective person must stay in self-quarantine in his/her room until the result of the PCR test is known. No skating, officiating, serving in any Event role is allowed during this time. "​

(I again see no exemption for someone who had a COVID infection in the past.)
I would hope that for anyone with symptoms, a clinical assessment would be part of the ISU/OC decision-making, regardless of a negative test.

 

[mrrice]

in my country, over half a million people have died in a year. I wasn’t alive during the Spanish flu, but I am not a young person. This is unlike anything I have experienced in my lifetime.

(And never have I heard of someone who died of the flu categorized as dying of “natural causes”. Maybe that’s a difference in how countries deal with labeling causes of death? And sadly, COVID is not at all comparable to the seasonal flu. Not in mortality, and not in effects)

Given that background, I do not think that being concerned for the safety of skaters at Worlds is “crying wolf”. I agree no one should panic. ETA: I am retired so there are not many places I “need” to go. When I do, I go about my business with proper precautions. I don’t think about the virus day and night sometimes I even argue about figure skating )

I am not in a state of panic, but a state of concern (as are the skaters) that protocols be followed and enforced. And I hope that it will be sufficient. As I think we all do.

I have to agree with you here. We all love skating but, even if I had tickets, I think I would donate them to charity. Flying to Europe from Ca. Usually involves a layover in either NYC or Montreal. That's 2 Airports and once you arrive, there will be local transport which usually involves trains. I am happy for the skaters if they are happy. There is already so much stress when competing, even under the best circumstances. I wish them all the best and I will be cheering from my PC.....

 

[CoyoteChris]

Just for the record, Flu is easy to test for and track.

Burden of Influenza

Learn about how CDC estimates the burden of seasonal influenza in the U.S.

www.cdc.gov

How flu kills is a bit more complex but not terribly unlike covid.

How Does the Flu Actually Kill People?

Every year the common virus is lethal to many. What happens inside the body that results in death?

www.scientificamerican.com

 

[CoyoteChris]

I have to agree with you here. We all love skating but, even if I had tickets, I think I would donate them to charity. Flying to Europe from Ca. Usually invovles a lawover in either NYC or Montreal. That's 2 Airports and once you arrive, there will be local transport which usually involves trains. I am happy for the skaters if they are happy. There is already so much stress when competing, even under the best circumstances. I wish them all the best and I will be cheering from my PC.....

You are a wise person. Dr. Gottlieb, ex head of the FDA, is a guy a really listen to and he gives an intelligent talk every Sunday on CBS. He said the new NEW YORK variant, B1526, has simularities with the SA variant, B117 but it is so new it is hard to tell its properties....only that it is taking hold in NYC and we will know more in two weeks. Its family tree doesnt look promising.... https://www.news-medical.net/news/20210228/New-SARS-CoV-2-B1526-variant-emerges-New-York.aspx

 

[ice coverage]

Forgive my ignorance but, why can't Worlds be done the same that US Nationals were? They were certainly different but, I still found them enjoyable all things considered.

US Nationals were able to be held the way they were because the arena was attached to the hotel.

For 2021 Worlds too, the official hotel (Quality Globe Hotel) is attached to the arena (Ericsson Globe).

On page 7 of the ISU's First Information document, the section about Quality Globe Hotel says:

"... What makes this 11-story building unique is that it's literally attached to Sweden’s largest indoor arena.
....The hotel has indoor access to the Ericsson Globe arena complex ..."​

See also the map of the arena complex at the bottom on page 6 of the First Information document for Worlds.
The same map is at the bottom of page 5 of the ISU Media Information for Worlds.

The arena also has indoor access to the two practice rinks [Annexet and Hovet], per page 9 of the Media Information document.

The hotel website has a photo showing that windows of the hotel's Arena Restaurant give a view directly into the *interior* of the arena.

A different (non-ISU) map showing the proximity of the hotel, arena, and practice rinks (source: https://www.hammarbyfotboll.se/aktuellt/nyheter/supporterinfo-djurgarden-hammarby-3/):

I belatedly am replying to mrrice's and karne's posts from February -- because I do not know whether someone elsewhere already provided an answer like mine.

For U.S. Nats, USFS published more information about its hotel arrangements than has been available to the public regarding Worlds.
But there is a similarity at least in terms of adjacency.

 

[1111bm]

Watching recent figure skating events, I would say it´s a clear reminder of the pandemic and virus, because it affected som skaters and we have seen some of them clearly struggle and still not back in form.

I find this a strange viewpoint. For instance, there's always skaters struggling with the after-effects of injuries during competitions. That is also a reminder of what a toll this sport is taking on the bodies of these athletes and it can make me a bit sad sometimes, but it ultimately doesn't make me worry or enjoy skating competitions less.

Have there been other competitions during which skaters have caught the virus that I am not aware of (keeping in mind of course, that many cases of transmission can't be tracked sufficiently), apart from Rostelecom Cup, which didn't have safety measures in place and didn't follow safety protocols, so I don't think it is comparable to Worlds or other competitions that took place?

I've heard of some skaters that have caught the virus (that russian ice dancer? Daniel Grassl?) but my understanding is, that this was outside of competitions, so I assume this happened in their private lives, so I don't see how competitions are to blame for this?

I actually think there might be a higher risk of catching the virus in your everyday life, because people become desensitised to the situation over time, they might slack and become a bit careless, or might just get tired of the safety measures and make exceptions for certain people, family members and so on. Meanwhile, when they're are at a competition, I would expect there to be a higher awareness of the risks involved and more a mindset of being on one's best behaviour.

Now I don't think the ISU has the best and safest measures in place for Worlds, there's certainly room for improvement. But I see the travel as the biggest risk, but honestly don't see that much risk while they're at the competition itself? (apart from practice sessions on the ice, which is why I would love to see the ISU make mask wearing mandatory during practice, to lower the risk of transmission)

Our numbers might see low for others, but our hospitals and ICU-capacity is a tragedy. I mentioned a few days ago that one of the hospitals have a full ICU, but I never mentioned what the capacity was. It only has only 11 ICU beds, and the hospital covers 600 000 inhabitants.

Now I don't mean to sound insensitive, but why didn't they upgrade the number of ICU beds? Eleven beds might've just about sufficed during pre-pandemic times, so in the past there was never enough pressure to do so. But the pandemic has been going on for a whole year now, so I find it very hard to understand why a rich country such as Norway didn't take the necessary precautions and increase their ICU capacities. Sounds like this is not just the result of new variants of Covid spreading, but also neglect on part of the government/health care system.

(Of course, no matter what led to the current state and whose 'fault' it is, it ultimately doesn't change the fact, that this is the situation Norway currently has to deal with)

 

[NanaPat]

Now I don't mean to sound insensitive, but why didn't they upgrade the number of ICU beds? Eleven beds might've just about sufficed during pre-pandemic times, so in the past there was never enough pressure to do so.

I have read articles about increasing ICU capacity. It's not as easy as it may seem, and the biggest limiting factor is trained personnel. They can somewhat get around this by using a combination of fully-trained nurses/technicians along with those who are not fully trained for the ICU, with the fully-trained people supervising and training the others "on the fly". Still, it's not ideal if multiple patients experience simultaneous emergencies.

 

[tzazu]

I have read articles about increasing ICU capacity. It's not as easy as it may seem, and the biggest limiting factor is trained personnel. They can somewhat get around this by using a combination of fully-trained nurses/technicians along with those who are not fully trained for the ICU, with the fully-trained people supervising and training the others "on the fly". Still, it's not ideal if multiple patients experience simultaneous emergencies.

In many places, the biggest limiting factor is personnel, trained or not. And I can tell you first-hand...

 

[1111bm]

I have read articles about increasing ICU capacity. It's not as easy as it may seem, and the biggest limiting factor is trained personnel. They can somewhat get around this by using a combination of fully-trained nurses/technicians along with those who are not fully trained for the ICU, with the fully-trained people supervising and training the others "on the fly". Still, it's not ideal if multiple patients experience simultaneous emergencies.

Yes I am aware of that, but as I said, the pandemic has been going on for a whole year now, so I would at least expect some workaround solution by now (then again, who knows, maybe that hospital had already increased its ICU capacities).

 

[CoyoteChris]

I have read articles about increasing ICU capacity. It's not as easy as it may seem, and the biggest limiting factor is trained personnel. They can somewhat get around this by using a combination of fully-trained nurses/technicians along with those who are not fully trained for the ICU, with the fully-trained people supervising and training the others "on the fly". Still, it's not ideal if multiple patients experience simultaneous emergencies.

I think your statement is very important and If countries were wise, when they are planning for the next virus, they need to take what they have learned with this one and come up with a comprehensive plan on what will be needed for the next pandemic. Korea did many things right after its 2015 MERS outbreak and made plans... and faired better than many countries now... using their past knowledge.

Explainer: what is the MERS outbreak in South Korea?

Twelve years ago the world was threatened by an outbreak of a new coronavirus called SARS. MERS belongs to the same virus family and has killed 19 people in South Korea.

theconversation.com

My biggest fear is that many countries, especially my own, will simply drop the ball after this pandemic and not do any important planning for the next pandemic. Those that chose to forget the past are doomed to relive it.

 

[CoyoteChris]

For 2021 Worlds too, the official hotel (Quality Globe Hotel) is attached to the arena (Ericsson Globe).

On page 7 of the ISU's First Information document, the section about Quality Globe Hotel says:

"... What makes this 11-story building unique is that it's literally attached to Sweden’s largest indoor arena.​

....The hotel has indoor access to the Ericsson Globe arena complex ..."​

See also the map of the arena complex at the bottom on page 6 of the First Information document for Worlds.
The same map is at the bottom of page 5 of the ISU Media Information for Worlds.

The arena also has indoor access to the two practice rinks [Annexet and Hovet], per page 9 of the Media Information document.

The hotel website has a photo showing that windows of the hotel's Arena Restaurant give a view directly into the *interior* of the arena.

A different (non-ISU) map showing the proximity of the hotel, arena, and practice rinks (source: https://www.hammarbyfotboll.se/aktuellt/nyheter/supporterinfo-djurgarden-hammarby-3/):

I belatedly am replying to mrrice's and karne's posts from February -- because I do not know whether someone elsewhere already provided an answer like mine.

For U.S. Nats, USFS published more information about its hotel arrangements than has been available to the public regarding Worlds.
But there is a similarity at least in terms of adjacency.

Thanks! Love the facilities.....

 

[karne]

Yes I am aware of that, but as I said, the pandemic has been going on for a whole year now, so I would at least expect some workaround solution by now (then again, who knows, maybe that hospital had already increased its ICU capacities).

It takes longer than a year to adequately train ICU specialists. You need doctors and nurses, too. And you have to have people that want to learn.

 

[yume]

No prediction thread?

 

[ruga]

No prediction thread?

There was one and I even wrote my predictions but it's gone somewhere now.

 

[figureskatingandrainbows]

No prediction thread?

There was one and I even wrote my predictions but it's gone somewhere now.

Yeah, Caroliza_fan wrote out the whole prediction thread and everything, but it was only up for a few hours. Not sure what happened, but I think it's coming soon????

 

[norwegianfairytale]

Now I don't mean to sound insensitive, but why didn't they upgrade the number of ICU beds? Eleven beds might've just about sufficed during pre-pandemic times, so in the past there was never enough pressure to do so. But the pandemic has been going on for a whole year now, so I find it very hard to understand why a rich country such as Norway didn't take the necessary precautions and increase their ICU capacities. Sounds like this is not just the result of new variants of Covid spreading, but also neglect on part of the government/health care system.

(Of course, no matter what led to the current state and whose 'fault' it is, it ultimately doesn't change the fact, that this is the situation Norway currently has to deal with)

You don´t sound insensitive. I have been asking myself the same question. So, they are expanding the ICU-beds now until 19 beds, but it already means cancelling not-important operations and moving health workers from other units. It´s not ideal. And, eventually, 19 beds at this state will be filled up in no time (if they aren´t already).

The government has worked for a year to expand the capacity, but it´s only good on paper. They have bought extra ventilators, PPE and so on, and started to educate ICU-workers. But as several already have mentioned here, to educate is a long process, and we are short of qualified staff and it can´t magically be fixed like that.

On top on that, it certainly doesn´t help that we have leaned on health workers from other countries such as Denmark and Sweden before Covid. Shortness in qualified health workers have been an issue for a while, and therefore health workers are brought from other countries. But the whole crossing the borders, need for testing and quarantine makes it very difficult. A lot of them live in Sweden, just by the border, and have travelled back and forth in one day. That is not possible anymore because of the quarantine-rules and a lot of them have given up on working in Norway.

So we have actually lost health workers.

There are also health workers struggling with long covid, and now we have several in hospitals after taking the Az-vaccine One of them, a young health worker, just died.

Also, ICU patients with Covid is very demanding. They need to be turned around several times a day, and it requires 4 health workers! Working with full PPE is also very demanding. It´s hot, they don´t see and hear that good, they can´t drink much water because they only go to the toilets during lunch break, so on top on that they might get a headache.

A ICU filled with Covid-patients needs more staff then a ICU filled with other patients.

Over time, this is very demanding and burn outs can be a consequence. It´s essensial to have a big work staff, so they can have time to rest and heal themselves between the working hours. I think if you asked anybody working on ICU with Covid, everybody would tell that it´s not the same as a flu-season. Not to mention the mental part of watching very sick people.

 

[Tutto]

You don´t sound insensitive. I have been asking myself the same question. So, they are expanding the ICU-beds now until 19 beds, but it already means cancelling not-important operations and moving health workers from other units. It´s not ideal. And, eventually, 19 beds at this state will be filled up in no time (if they aren´t already).

The government has worked for a year to expand the capacity, but it´s only good on paper. They have bought extra ventilators, PPE and so on, and started to educate ICU-workers. But as several already have mentioned here, to educate is a long process, and we are short of qualified staff and it can´t magically be fixed like that.

On top on that, it certainly doesn´t help that we have leaned on health workers from other countries such as Denmark and Sweden before Covid. Shortness in qualified health workers have been an issue for a while, and therefore health workers are brought from other countries. But the whole crossing the borders, need for testing and quarantine makes it very difficult. A lot of them live in Sweden, just by the border, and have travelled back and forth in one day. That is not possible anymore because of the quarantine-rules and a lot of them have given up on working in Norway.

So we have actually lost health workers.

There are also health workers struggling with long covid, and now we have several in hospitals after taking the Az-vaccine One of them, a young health worker, just died.

Also, ICU patients with Covid is very demanding. They need to be turned around several times a day, and it requires 4 health workers! Working with full PPE is also very demanding. It´s hot, they don´t see and hear that good, they can´t drink much water because they only go to the toilets during lunch break, so on top on that they might get a headache.

A ICU filled with Covid-patients needs more staff then a ICU filled with other patients.

Over time, this is very demanding and burn outs can be a consequence. It´s essensial to have a big work staff, so they can have time to rest and heal themselves between the working hours. I think if you asked anybody working on ICU with Covid, everybody would tell that it´s not the same as a flu-season. Not to mention the mental part of watching very sick people.

I spoke yesterday to a good friend of mine in Stockholm checking tbh for any threat to Worlds by way of sudden lockdown. She reassured me that the government has no intention to close down anything, the opposite in fact the cinemas & smth else I cant remember what to be re-opened soon despite the worst third wave of Covid. Sadly no one even heard of figure skating coming to town - no surprise there !
She also told me that some hospitals are closing ICUs altogether because the staff are exhausted and can not any longer provide a quality care for their patients (?!)
I mean I have no doubt the nurses & doctors are burnt out but is it a solution? What about the sick?

 

[mrrice]

It takes longer than a year to adequately train ICU specialists. You need doctors and nurses, too. And you have to have people that want to learn.

I agree. One of my former students is a nurse here in Clovis and I can tell just looking at her, that this situation has taken a toll on her. She admits that she is constantly tired but, she knows that she is needed at the hospital, Nurses are often requested at another hospital in town to cover shitfs for sick nurses at other facilities. Things are beginning to slow as the vaccine is getting distributed but, who knows how long it will be before things are back to normal.

 

[[email protected]]

2021 Worlds are still on - that's so cool!

 

[figureskatingandrainbows]

I'm so sick of this baseless covid hysteria and constant whining from people that don't leave their homes

Absolutely!! Thankyou ... this thread is just insane!!

Thank you for sharing your opinion, as many others have on this thread. However, please respect others' opinions in your posts. We all have had different experiences with COVID-19, from where we live to who we know. It's fine that you feel the way that you do, however I hope that anyone who decides to post on this thread remains civil and respects others' opinions. I don't want this thread to turn from sharing perspective and experience to mocking or denouncing other people's thoughts. (And I don't think your posts are a problem or anything, you're sharing your opinion, but I don't want this thread to turn into something disrespectful or rude to anyone)