2021 Worlds: Pairs' Free Skate

[Sk8swan]

Bereavement?

Unfortunately Matteo lost his mother last fall.

 

[rollerblade]

today was an emotional rollercoaster and now it's over

I need to refill the liquor caboose for tomorrow!!
Wow who knew there are so many drinks on the emoji panel?

 

[flanker]

Yes, but Mishina DID already have a junior silver (winning the year before B/K) and won JGPF that year. So it's not like she was a completely unknown skater then.

Sasha Galliamov was, if I'm not mistaken. And you know that in pairs it doesn't work the same like in singles. That you were on some level with one partner doesn't mean it will be the same with the other one. They need time to get accustomed, to gain the synergy. They also changed coaches just a year ago.

 

[chasingneverland]

This really needs to be said. Mishina/Galliamov are NOT junior pairs skaters. Before this season, they already had an entire international senior season where they won a GPF medal. This is their second senior season.
They're not even age eligible for Juniors - they're too old.

 

[s_parks]

S/H were just reusing their programs because Han was still recovering from surgery he got over the summer. Are we really pretending something other than them being underconditioned (understandably) and just not very good at sbs jumps was the problem? Come on.

 

[ancientpeas]

I have a feeling next year will be the last season for T/M (possibly also for S/H) they have been doing this so long and are now getting beaten by the younger russian teams on rotation.
I hope they will give us one last hurrah and end on a high note with finaly winning either Olympics or worlds (I will be fine with either and S/H can win the other) but knowing them and their track record I wont keep my hopes up....

I would agree about T/M. I'm not sure about S/H. Chinese pairs hang around but she's had so many injuries. I think if they win the Olympics they will retire.
The difficulty in Russia for T/M is Daria and Denis who are so young and are only going to get better. The Russian pairs field is simply too deep. In any other country they'd probably be able to hang around as long as they wanted to but my guess is the fed will force them out after the Olympics to make way for new blood.

 

[cathlen]

Han Yan I am a huge fan of. I think Brezina gets the judges by using the good ole "Le Sexy" ploy. I root for him too.
But the Jason Brown thing.. it's horrifying. I'm horrified. THE HORROR!!

He doesn't need me! He has very dedicated fans of his own. He'll definitely live without me cheering him on

 

[chasingneverland]

Sasha Galliamov was, if I'm not mistaken. And you know that in pairs it doesn't work the same like in singles. That you were on some level with one partner doesn't mean it will be the same with the other one. They need time to get accustomed, to gain the synergy. They also changed coaches just a year ago.

They won bronze at Junior World's the very season they paired up.

 

[Flying Feijoa]

People here may consider side by side jumps as everything in pair skating.

They aren't, but they're often the most badly-done, hit-and-miss elements in pairs skating. Hence they influence final standings a lot.

Yes, lifts are important too but most top teams can handle them and get good similar base value (if not GOE) as long as they don't abort the entire element.

 

[Vilord]

I do disagree. Jumps are not everything in pairs the way they are in singles. They're not even the highest-scored elements. M/G were gifted in GOEs in many elements, including throws, as discussed before, and their lifts, which are more important than jumps. So... an UR on a jump vs lack of flow and speed in a lift... All this before we even begin to talk about PCS.

S/h did get about 1 GOE point higher than M/G on every pairs element throughout the program. Sure S/H have better lifts but can you really say that M/G deserve less than +3 for their pair elements? I dont think so at least.

 

[Baron Vladimir]

To be fair they had understandable reasons for recycling programmes (Han's surgery, difficulty working with their usual choreographer, no real international season). But I agree with you, this is the 3rd season with Rain In Your Black Eyes (the music which incidentally I dislike, but was able to overlook the first time round). Would have preferred them to recycle their Worlds 2017 LP instead, which only got performed twice. The more you perform a programme, the more it invites comparisons with past performances. In my eyes they didn't perform the SP as well as in Worlds 2017, nor the LP as in Worlds 2019.

Yeah, but I was also talking in generals. M/G performance at this exact competition was the most distinctive one. While all the other elements of the top pairs (S/H, T/M and B/K), as their transitions, compositions, performance styles etc looked almost the same comparing to each other.

 

[ice coverage]

So pairs spots for the olympics should be
Russia keeps 3
China gets 3 (one has to be reeaned at Nebelhorn)
Canada keeps 2
US keeps 2
Italy keeps 2
Japan gets 2 (one has to be reearned)
That is 14 spots meaning
Austria gets 1
Germany gets 1

Then there will be 3 spots +2 available at Nebelhorn. ...

PS. I hope Ive understood the rules correctly

I have a different understanding of what the new Olympic rule means.

My tally of OWG pair spots at this point would be:

RUS 3 definitively earned spots
CHN 2 definite spots + the chance to earn 1 more spot at Nebelhorn
CAN 2 definite spots
USA 2 definite
ITA 2 definite
JPN 1 definite + the chance to earn 1 more spot at Nebelhorn
AUT 1 definite
GER 1 definite
HUN 1 definite
CZE 1 definite

---

Total: 16 definite spots​

For pairs, 3 OWG spots at stake at Nebelhorn.

---

... (Im confused why would you have 16 +3 participants at the olympics and not 16+4 to have 5 full warm up groups?) ...

FWIW, I will repeat my thoughts on this topic from a different thread:

The IOC (as opposed to the ISU) controls the size of the fields, and the IOC has been clear that its goal is to reduce the total number of athletes (added up from all sports) at the Games.

For 2022 OWG, the field size for pairs and dance has decreased by one entry since 2018.

(And the "Additional Athletes Quota" [for the team event and/or for the host country] has been reduced to five skaters. Used to be ten.)

Also worth keeping in mind, IMO:

Per OWG rules, Korea as the host country received an otherwise-unearned 2018 pair spot.
So the 2018 OWG Pairs SP had six groups (with three pairs in Group 1 and three pairs in Group 2).

It so happens that 2022 OWG are in China, which will have no problem qualifying in pairs and in dance.
But conceptually, maybe the example of 2018 Pairs could be an additional reason that the IOC is not wed to quotas corresponding to five full groups?​

 

[Vilord]

I would agree about T/M. I'm not sure about S/H. Chinese pairs hang around but she's had so many injuries. I think if they win the Olympics they will retire.
The difficulty in Russia for T/M is Daria and Denis who are so young and are only going to get better. The Russian pairs field is simply too deep. In any other country they'd probably be able to hang around as long as they wanted to but my guess is the fed will force them out after the Olympics to make way for new blood.

I just feel like both of these pairs have stuggeled for so long T/M with delivering under preassure and S/H with numerous injuries. Im not sure how much longer either will have moivation to power through.

 

[saturdaysun]

S/h did get about 1 GOE point higher than M/G on every pairs element throughout the program. Sure S/H have better lifts but can you really say that M/G deserve less than +3 for their pair elements? I dont think so at least.

There's just something off about M/G's lifts to me. I get that judges don't agree with me, but the way he comes to an almost complete standstill and you can see them concentrating on trying to get into the next position... It's better this season than last year, when I was often left wondering whether they had actually made a mistake and were putting them down early, but it was still really noticeable today. Yeah, I do think they should be getting less than +3, personally.

 

[flanker]

They won bronze at Junior World's the very season they paired up.

I know and that shows how good match it was. The winners were Pavliuchenko/Khodykin and Kostiukovivch/Ialin took the silver BTW. With more experience together M/G would have won gold, which they took a year later. I remember Ted's comment from JGP Bratislava 2018, he said something like "that's a pair match made in heaven" and he was so right about that.

 

[Vilord]

I have a different understanding of what the new Olympic rule means.

My tally of OWG pair spots at this point would be:

RUS 3 definitively earned spots​

CHN 2 definite spots + the chance to earn 1 more spot at Nebelhorn​

CAN 2 definite spots​

USA 2 definite​

ITA 2 definite​

JPN 1 definite + the chance to earn 1 more spot at Nebelhorn​

AUT 1 definite​

GER 1 definite​

HUN 1 definite​

CZE 1 definite​

---

Total: 16 definite spots​

For pairs, 3 OWG spots at stake at Nebelhorn.

The rules says:
"3 Spots for contries with top 2 max 13
2 spots for those with top 2 max 28
2 spots for one athlete top 10

1 Spots to be filled up as follows
Next highest ranked athlete from the NOCs not qualified with three (3) and two (2) places, until the quotas (16 for pairs) of qualification through the ISU World Figure Skating Championships 2021 are reached."

I interpret that as the +1 spot for china and Japan come before the 1 spot for HUN and CZE and that those contries dont get an automatic spot now but will have to go to Nebelhorn and that there then will be 3 +2 spots at Nebelhorn since Japan and China have to sen a 3rd/2nd pair to qualify there.

When will we get confirmed by the isu who is right?

 

[chasingneverland]

I know and that shows how good match it was. The winners were Pavliuchenko/Khodykin and Kostiukovivch/Ialin took the silver BTW. With more experience together M/G would have won gold, which they took a year later. I remember Ted's comment from JGP Bratislava 2018, he said something like "that's a pair match made in heaven" or something like that and he was so right about that.

I know. I was mostly commenting to say it's a little disingenuous to say that M/G weren't even a pair. That's technically true but (1) Mishina was already a World Junior medalist and JGPF champion and (2) it's not like B/K were this great pairing and M/G came out of nowhere. As for the coaching switch, yes that happened but it didn't happen until this year. M/G had already won everything in juniors and medalled on the GPF their first senior season.

 

[elektra blue]

I need to refill the liquor caboose for tomorrow!!
Wow who knew there are so many drinks on the emoji panel?

because they know we need all the booze we can get to get through some competitions

 

[TontoK]

LAST TIME: M/G are NOT A JUNIOR PAIR. They are competing in seniors. Please stop this erroneous assertion

The person you're quoting is the EXACT reason I can't wait for the return of the live threads reserved for financial contributors to the forum.

That small fee does a lot to improve the overall quality of the discourse and my enjoyment of the event.

 

[florin]

Ha-ha, I've finished watching pairs now. An unexpected turn of events. By the way, there was an interesting moment in K&C - Sasha arranged a funny concert there in K&C. I thought that in their pair only Dima is responsible for inappropriate narcissism. It turned out that Sasha is also a drama queen of the first magnitude. Eh, youth... it was stupid - in the Russian FS-community, the attitude to Moskvina as a saint, and then there are also ridiculous claims in the style of Zhenya on the OG-18. But Zhenya then skate cleanly, and here Sasha made obvious mistakes, and for some reason Moskvina is to blame.