2022 Olympics: Men's Short Program

[Horsefeathers]

So I got up this morning to some huge surprises.

Nathan being in the lead wasn't one of them. I see there's been a lot of debate about his PCS, but I just see his artistic style as completely different from most of the other men. Where others are flowy and sometimes delicate, his movements are staccato and intense. He's always been that way. I no more expect him to pull off Jason's moves than I expect Jason to pull off Nathan's jumps. I've got to be honest though. A Jason with Nathan jumps would be unstoppable. Maybe Ilia will grow into that?

Donovan from Mexico: His joy was what I was talking about last night. I love seeing that.

Kevin from France: Ditto. Plus I <3 purple.

Hanyu: Didn't expect THAT. Even if he hadn't popped, I don't think he'd have been in the lead. Do I want to see him attempt a 4A? Not really, if he's going to splat. I don't think any skater wants their final appearance at Olys to involve a splat, even if landing it meant a world's first.

Shoma and Yuma: Wow. Nice to see Shoma come back guns a'blazin. Yuma's already got some innate performance sensibility (looking at the audience and smiling) that many of the older men just don't have. If I had to put my money on a future GOAT bet, I might throw some at Yuma.

Jason: It's a pity some people fail to see how intricate (and difficult) his programs are (outside the jumps). After watching almost all of the men, I'm not sure any of the others could go out and skate that choreography with as much ease and flow. I would like to see someone try though. As I've said before, Jason might not have quads, but he's always lurking, ready to pounce when one of the quadkids messes up on their bread and butter point-grabbers.

 

[Skater Boy]

That's too bad... I was pretty sure it was a false positive. I mean, how did he get infected? I hope there are no more positive tests...

But it wasnt false posiitive.Can i kindly ask why you were sure it was false positive? I mean even with the bubble so to speak there are thousands of people at the olympics. The odds are someone is going to carry it and get it.

 

[Skater Boy]

They were a bit lenient. The 3F landing was scratchy so I wouldn't consider it effortless, nor was the 3A (Chen's 3A didn't deserve +4s either). The one footed Biellmann was also a bit wild/could have been centred better but didn't really show in the GOE. It is the Olympics though.

And yeah if Jason was born 15 years later he'd have all the medals really. But there is something about him being in this era that makes him truly special .... even back then his type of skating and avant garde choreo would have been hard to come by.

15 years earliler I think you mean about Jason but then he would have had Buttle, Chan, lambiel and an on Sandu who fairly could equal or beat him even for beautiful skating.

 

[brigit66]

Some of these twitter comments (and on other platforms) are crazy… are people confused that ice is bad when you skate in the last warm up group? I remember when I skated junior level I skated on some terrible ice. It happens and it’s part of the sport.

if it happened to nathan and yuzu was first benefiting from chen mistake , everybody would be ignoring nathan "bad luck", nobody would care. But Yuzu is always a victim

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

I don’t know. Step sequence isn’t worth much.

His errors within it dropped it to a level 2 as well as the GOE, scoring just 3.01 points for it. Typically he scores around 1.2-1.3 points higher. Not to mention those were obvious errors that likely compromised his PCS (unless you're in the camp that PCS is mutually exclusive from TES -- so 2 stumbles in a step sequence shouldn't affect PE/SS/TR/IN because they were part of a technical element).

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

15 years earliler I think you mean about Jason but then he would have had Buttle, Chan, lambiel and an on Sandu who fairly could equal or beat him even for beautiful skating.

For sure, but Buttle won Worlds without a quad, Chan wasn't fully baked yet, Sandhu was inconsistent and Lambiel's spins/quads were negated by an inconsistent axel. Brown's spins and skating quality and choreo would have owned these guys. Brown would have for sure been the first skater to clear 45/90 PCS.

 

[Skater Boy]

So I got up this morning to some huge surprises.

Nathan being in the lead wasn't one of them. I see there's been a lot of debate about his PCS, but I just see his artistic style as completely different from most of the other men. Where others are flowy and sometimes delicate, his movements are staccato and intense. He's always been that way. I no more expect him to pull off Jason's moves than I expect Jason to pull off Nathan's jumps. I've got to be honest though. A Jason with Nathan jumps would be unstoppable. Maybe Ilia will grow into that?

Donovan from Mexico: His joy was what I was talking about last night. I love seeing that.

Kevin from France: Ditto. Plus I <3 purple.

Hanyu: Didn't expect THAT. Even if he hadn't popped, I don't think he'd have been in the lead. Do I want to see him attempt a 4A? Not really, if he's going to splat. I don't think any skater wants their final appearance at Olys to involve a splat, even if landing it meant a world's first.

Shoma and Yuma: Wow. Nice to see Shoma come back guns a'blazin. Yuma's already got some innate performance sensibility (looking at the audience and smiling) that many of the older men just don't have. If I had to put my money on a future GOAT bet, I might throw some at Yuma.

Jason: It's a pity some people fail to see how intricate (and difficult) his programs are (outside the jumps). After watching almost all of the men, I'm not sure any of the others could go out and skate that choreography with as much ease and flow. I would like to see someone try though. As I've said before, Jason might not have quads, but he's always lurking, ready to pounce when one of the quadkids messes up on their bread and butter point-grabbers.

I hear what you say about Nathans style but that should apply to Stoijko years ago too. He committed to real character. The issue is Nathans skting skills while improved, while very good are NOT at the level of Brown or Lambiel or Buttle or Chan skaters who mastered the blade. and nathan beating Jasons pcs or even coming close seems so unfair when one quad jump decimates the tiny advantage a pc skater has. That being said the content is so high for Chen he is almost unbeatable. good for Yuma and Shoma to stay so close.

Relly the amazing point are skaters 4 to 11 such quality and clean in the sp. Wow. even without Vinnie and Kolyaada still a high level of skating. The ones to watch Brown will he hold up. Morsi, Cha can and will they continue being on the leader board. Will Hanyu try the 4A and will he move up or how much can he move up I am also curious about the Canadian with his issues (Messing) to get to the games was he preparing to deal with the jet lag. Even so all that stress and travel often backtracking) what effect if any will it have on the sp.

on a side note I am worried about Roman. I hope he is being supported. What a mess.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Then call Yuzu a liar. It's what he said to a journalist on camera.

I'm not saying the hole wasn't there or didn't affect him.

But he is saying he missed the salchow because of the ice. Which isn't a great look (certainly other skaters who have blamed the ice have similarly been rightfully critiqued for making an excuse), especially when the ice wasn't an issue for the rest of the skaters.

When they called his name, the camera cut to him doing his quad salchow set up. Even after acknowledging the crowd, crossing himself etc, instead of taking his starting position, he still did more motions to prepare for the salchow and did a couple 3 turns. He was not confident in his quad salchow.

 

[4everchan]

For me, all mistakes are disruptive..

On falls : I am OH NOOOOO!!!!! OUCH!
On pops I am GASPS!!!!!!
On skating bobbles : hold it togetherrrrrrrr OH MY
On traveling spins or ugly spins : SIGHHHHHH
There is no mistake that isn't disruptive. Sorry but it is what it is. It's like a wrong note when you are a musician. It is a mistake. End of it.

Re : the comments about some skaters not getting high enough PCS when they score 47-48 PCS. Again, was it a perfect performance on all levels.... and even if it were? Would you give it 50? Really? I believe in excellence... not in perfection... I saw many musical timing errors yesterday from pretty much everyone out there. That should count too.

 

[4everchan]

I'm not saying the hole wasn't there or didn't affect him.

But he is saying he missed the salchow because of the ice. Which isn't a great look (certainly other skaters who have blamed the ice have similarly been rightfully critiqued for making an excuse), especially when the ice wasn't an issue for the rest of the skaters.

When they called his name, the camera cut to him doing his quad salchow set up. Even after acknowledging the crowd, crossing himself etc, instead of taking his starting position, he still did more motions to prepare for the salchow and did a couple 3 turns. He was not confident in his quad salchow.

I still hear the complaints from many fans when Patrick mentioned the ice in Boston (skating last on melted ice on top of that) , and that was obvious even from watching on TV. There was a gigantic puddle. Patrick was afraid he would hurt himself. Yet, in this case, Yuzu, receives so much sympathy? Double standards anyone?

 

[Alchamei]

I really don't understand why people say Yuzu is simply blaming the ice and will lie about it so he won't admit he made a mistake. OMG. Just writing sounds so ridiculous. He just said why he messed up the Sal, he had bad luck. Yes, he fcd up, but sometimes ice is slipery and bad.

 

[prorussian fan]

Well, now we can say that a hole in the ice prevented the GOAT from going for his third Olympic title and it was a lucky break that Nathan had the easiest path to gold. Waiting for Yuma to deliver it and for the surprise for Japan to climb to the top of the podium

 

[4everchan]

I really don't understand why people say Yuzu is simply blaming the ice and will lie about it so he won't admit he made a mistake. OMG. Just writing sounds so ridiculous. He just said why he messed up the Sal, he had bad luck. Yes, he fcd up, but sometimes ice is slipery and bad.

I think Yuzuru explained perfectly he made a mistake. Just like Patrick explained why he didn't feel comfortable in Boston. That's all fine with me. To me the issue is how some people interpret the comments. Patrick got bashed endlessly. Yuzuru gets a lot of sympathy, which is fine BUT also it goes as far as " he should have been allowed to redo his jump" erm.. NO.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

I really don't understand why people say Yuzu is simply blaming the ice and will lie about it so he won't admit he made a mistake. OMG. Just writing sounds so ridiculous. He just said why he messed up the Sal, he had bad luck. Yes, he fcd up, but sometimes ice is slipery and bad.

Not saying he's lying. But it does sound like he's making an excuse. As pointed out, when other skaters have done it, they've been criticised for it too. Excuses are bad because it trivializes the good things that others do as circumstantial/lucky (or unlucky in his case), and isn't taking ownership of one's own mistakes.

 

[sjchilly]

I'm almost afraid to ask this for fear of the blowback. Would Hanyu have had a better grasp on ice conditions if he had arrived earlier and spent more time on the venue ice?

 

[SNAKSuyun]

I streamed the event for some friends who have never watched FS before, and their thoughts were... interesting. They loved Yuma (many wanted to place him first), liked Matteo/Kevin/Junhwan/Yuzu/Shoma/Donovan, and felt very lukewarm towards Nathan and Jason. Many wanted to score Matteo and Jun a little higher in particular, and were in disbelief that Jason placed as high as he did. I guess something something sometimes intricate choreography doesn't immediately connect as well with less trained eyes? They could also just have been influenced by my bias, considering their fav list has a lot of overlap with mine

 

[prorussian fan]

I streamed the event for some friends who have never watched FS before, and their thoughts were... interesting. They loved Yuma (many wanted to place him first), liked Matteo/Kevin/Junhwan/Yuzu/Shoma/Donovan, and felt very lukewarm towards Nathan and Jason. Many wanted to score Matteo and Jun a little higher in particular, and were in disbelief that Jason placed as high as he did. I guess something something sometimes intricate choreography doesn't immediately connect as well with less trained eyes? They could also just have been influenced by my bias, considering their fav list has a lot of overlap with mine

It's because Yuma was really exquisite, he sold Michael Buble's program beautifully, he is the complete package, jumps, spins, elegance, charisma, he has it all. He's 5 points out of first place and has to go to gold (of course, if Nathan isn't overrated like he usually is)

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

I'm almost afraid to ask this for fear of the blowback. Would Hanyu have had a better grasp on ice conditions if he had arrived earlier and spent more time on the venue ice?

I don't think it would have mattered. Sadovsky performed the worst and yet he had much more time than Messing, including the team event.

Sometimes athletes just have issues. He might nail the salchow in the FS. Also, Hanyu did a fantastic 4T+3T (one of the best ever IMO), so I don't think he didn't have a grasp on the ice conditions.

And athletes also go through waves of consistency and we haven't seen much of Hanyu going into these Olympics, so maybe his confidence/consistency with his salchow isn't optimal.

 

[Cilla70]

At least they started with Yuzu. Eurosport Bulgaria started with Shoma waiting for his scores… So now I am searching for the full competition, because I didn’t see Yuzuru, Shoma, Mark and so many other skaters.

Peacock has the full competition on replay.

 

[SNAKSuyun]

Not saying he's lying. But it does sound like he's making an excuse. As pointed out, when other skaters have done it, they've been criticised for it too. Excuses are bad because it trivializes the good things that others do as circumstantial/lucky (or unlucky in his case), and isn't taking ownership of one's own mistakes.

I think I'm a bit mystified as to why so many people are adamant on calling this one thing or another. Like, it's perfectly possible that the pop happened BOTH because he was unlucky with the ice AND because he was underprepared. It's also perfectly possible for feelings in the moment to dominate your immediate reaction to something (when I go to the rink to practice my jumps and don't make them, I often /feel/ like it's because I got bad takeoffs, even though I also know my technique / fitness prob play a factor). It's natural for Yuzuru to say that he felt baffled by the fall if he genuinely feels like he's in good shape (and from his practices, that doesn't sound like a cover up either). I think people are all reading too much into this and moralizing too heavily when it was just "something that happened." Yuzuru knows he's made a mistake. He told us honestly about how he personally felt about it in the moment. He's the only one who can now try to adjust himself to make sure he gives the performance he wants in the free skate. That's all, really.