2023 Grand Prix de France Pairs Free Skate

[rain]

I feel like I watched a different skate. The scores were too high for what Lia and Trent put out there. I’m not saying they didn’t deserve to win given the rest of the competition. But the Italians and Canadians look like teams that would usually be ranked 6-10 in the world and future champs in 2-3 years, yet now they’re top 2 at GPs. The current overall state of pairs is discouraging.

I think people are very much idealizing what the grand prix in pairs used to look like, lol. There were plenty of very messy competitions with pairs that weren't exactly setting the world on fire, with a few good ones at the top. We're not too far away from that again (if pairs would stop getting injured and withdrawing).

 

[Axel Rose]

I think people are very much idealizing what the grand prix in pairs used to look like, lol. There were plenty of very messy competitions with pairs that weren't exactly setting the world on fire, with a few good ones at the top. We're not too far away from that again (if pairs would stop getting injured and withdrawing).

I remember pairs is often a crapfest. I just feel Lia and Trennt got overscored, especially given the mistakes. And then they won, but mostly because there’s so few pairs and it was not a well skated competition.

 

[4everchan]

I remember pairs is often a crapfest. I just feel Lia and Trennt got overscored, especially given the mistakes. And then they won, but mostly because there’s so few pairs and it was not a well skated competition.

i actually thought they were underscored in PCS
in TES... not many teams even bother attempting 3t-2a-2a and the mistake was only on the last jump which doesn't affect much the sequenece... they got the mandatory 50% deduction on the last jump (1.65)... but the base valus is like 10.8... some mistakes have less impact than others

 

[Baron Vladimir]

I think people are very much idealizing what the grand prix in pairs used to look like, lol. There were plenty of very messy competitions with pairs that weren't exactly setting the world on fire, with a few good ones at the top. We're not too far away from that again (if pairs would stop getting injured and withdrawing).

Well, when Russians were competing (and two Chinese pairs too) it was better for sure, like competitions as a whole - as those others pairs were striving to do better, and they actually did i think. It's not an idealization, I actually can name 3 Russian pairs and 2 Chinese for that matter, but the pairs field as a whole was better - with much better German, Italian, French, USA and Canadian pairs teams. If you think that all these Italian teams we are seeing now are on a level of Marchei/Hotarek, or all of these French teams are on a level of James/Cipres, or all those Canadian teams are on a level of Duhamell/Redford etc etc etc, then we are leaving in a different reality I hope they all can improve to be on that level, but pairs competition as a whole at this point of time is just looking worse than it was.

 

[4everchan]

Well... if we are going to talk about these great teams from the past, let's mention one thing : since 2019, the ISU has lowered the base value of the quad elements (twist and throws). Teams no longer needed to develop these elements who are not worth risking anymore. At the 2022 games, pairs were mostly representing 2 countries... not all of these European and North American greats mentioned above. The current teams now are still adjusting to the new axel sequence rule... Lia and Trennt do take advantage of that rule (will take even greater advantage when they land everything ) Pairs are changing. Skaters need to be stronger with SBS jumps, and develop the ability to tag 2a after 2a after a triple jump.

I see the sport as evolving in another direction, adapting once more to the rules and requirements of the code of points. We will see next week where Chinese teams stand at. Germany is looking good again with two competitive teams. Italy has 2 or 3 good teams as well. Canada the same. USA is rebuilding following retirement of their top team. Japan has one solid team (world champions, injured right now) and a new team coming up.

I don't see the field as being decimated. I see it as very different from what we expected these pairs in 2014 or 2018. We are still relatively early in the olympic cycle for 2026. Teams will for sure get stronger and stronger.

 

[Reen403]

CBC cut off before medal ceremony. What's with that?

I scurried over to the ISU channel. Can't get enough "Oh "

 

[TT_Fin]

There has been ups and downs in pairs and often in all disciplines there are lot of retirements after olympics and new partnerships team or show up. People have sometimes short memory. Olympics 2018 the best Russian team was 4th, so none of them on the podium. The medalists were Germany, China and Canada.

 

[Baron Vladimir]

I don't see the field as being decimated. I see it as very different from what we expected these pairs in 2014 or 2018. We are still relatively early in the olympic cycle for 2026. Teams will for sure get stronger and stronger.

We can just compare pairs results at GPF from last two years and 2016-2021 results. Last two winners would not win and actually in majority of past GPF competitions would not even medal with those performances. Bronze medalists would not finish in top 5. In comparison, men or ice dance discipline is a different story.

 

[moonvine]

I was concerned yesterday because I feel like Danny is too powerful for Ellie. He always seems to be pushing and pushing. I guess there is the pressure of developing all these triples quickly. I hope they recover soon.

I know they need the triples to be competitive at Worlds and 4CCs but I feel like they could go a bit slower. The triple twist was a nice upgrade and seems solid. But I not their coach. I hope they are ok. One of my two fave US teams- so stunning.

P/F fall all the time and no one freaks out. I don’t think they have won as much as Ellie and Danny have either, but I’d have to look it up. Not that I don’t like P/F, I do. But they fall a lot.

 

[moonvine]

I have also experienced pretty much consistent refusal on the part of rink security to allow outside food into the arena

You know, because those gruesome nachos and hot dogs the rink concessionaires sell would not find many takers otherwise

Just get yourself a walker. They even let me bring in an open container, which I fully expected to have to throw away. But you know I would sit in my seat and die of dehydration before I would pay $7.25 for a 20 ounce soda or $8 for a Gatorade.

 

[moonvine]

Danny O'Shea and Brandon Frasier are elite male pair skaters who were at a crossroads 4 years ago with partners who were not able to continue. Brandon ended up being paired with Alexis Knierim resulting in an Olympic medal and World Championship. Danny, on the side lines. Ellie seems like a willing pair skater and competent on the lifts but struggling with the jumps and throws. I hope these series of falls don't deter that determination. Imagine if Danny had been paired with Deanna S-D a few years ago. Now that would have been a powerful duo!

Indeed it would. I’m just glad Danny is still skating.

 

[moonvine]

Maybe they wouldn't have gelled ... it's easy to imagine these things but the reality is different...
For instance, Vanessa Crone was with Paul Poirier. They split. She was lined up to skate with Soerensen. It didn't work out. But what if Laurence, instead of teaming up with Nik had teamed up with Paul (instead of Piper)... Considering that some think she is the best ice dancer in the world and others believe the same of Paul, how would they have fared together? At the same time, Nik and Lolo's chemistry is undeniable

Deanna is another skater now that she has been working with Maxime. I don't recall her being as stellar with Nathan.

My understanding is that USFS wasn’t very interested in her and wasn’t going to give her any support. That’s just rumors though so who really knows?

 

[moonvine]

Wow! Mark mentioned GS!!

 

[moonvine]

Sorry to miss watching with y’all..set alarm but did not turn on.

 

[4everchan]

We can just compare pairs results at GPF from last two years and 2016-2021 results. Last two winners would not win and actually in majority of past GPF competitions would not even medal with those performances. Bronze medalists would not finish in top 5. In comparison, men or ice dance discipline is a different story.

We actually cannot compare results because rules have changed. Even elements no longer are performed. Also, I feel it's very unfair to compare early season results to GPF. Why not give a chance to the teams competing ? Skate America was relatively weak. Fine. First event of the GP season. Deanna and Max were stellar at Skate Canada. Lia and Trennt are constantly improving and are worthy contenders for GPF. The discipline is evolving. What you seem to be missing is the balletic style of pairs some school is teaching. That's one way of doing pairs. Lia and Trennt, Deanna and Max, to name only these two team are all about powerful and athletic performance. Not about romance. Not about classical extension. There is more than one way to skate pairs and be successful. I am happy someone else reminded you that in 2018, the podium didn't feature any Russian teams. It was actually not a first. It happened also in 2010. It just shows that the sport is cyclical. In 2022, yup, it was a peak for Russian teams. They had 3 very accomplished teams competing at the Olympics. Yet, they still didn't take that gold. Of course, if the situation were different, these teams would be on the GP circuit. 3 teams, 6 events. Add one of these teams per event, the field is deeper. However, it's not like they always skated perfectly. Deanna and Max at Skate Canada would have been tough to beat by just about anyone. In summer 2022, right after the great retirements and terrible circumstances we all know, some GSers felt pairs would die. Instead, many new teams got formed. Canada's scene has never been deeper, even with Nic and Emma moving on to show skating. Even our junior teams are landing things and winning JGPs events. I know you don't mean to be dismissive towards the athletes right now, but the reality is that constantly saying the field is not good has that effect. After Skate America, who thought Skate Canada would have a much more interesting pairs event? After Skate Canada, who expected the men to shine so much at Grand Prix de France? Each week is full or surprises and to me, that's what so exciting about the current state of pairs skating. There are very young teams of course in the pairs field.. and with hosts spots, when there are only 8 teams competing, of course, it does have an impact. You get the two seeded pairs and depending where one is, 2 or 3 local teams. The field is automatically less balanced in pairs and that has always been the case with the nature of events. Come GPF, come worlds, it will be an epic battle ! Also, keep in mind from the top six at worlds, the original seeds, 1 team retired, 2 are injured. This happens. When the Japanese are healthy again, when Chan and Howe resume competing, already it will change the perception of the field.

 

[Baron Vladimir]

We actually cannot compare results because rules have changed. Even elements no longer are performed. Also, I feel it's very unfair to compare early season results to GPF. Why not give a chance to the teams competing ? Skate America was relatively weak. Fine. First event of the GP season. Deanna and Max were stellar at Skate Canada. Lia and Trennt are constantly improving and are worthy contenders for GPF. The discipline is evolving. What you seem to be missing is the balletic style of pairs some school is teaching. That's one way of doing pairs. Lia and Trennt, Deanna and Max, to name only these two team are all about powerful and athletic performance. Not about romance. Not about classical extension. There is more than one way to skate pairs and be successful. I am happy someone else reminded you that in 2018, the podium didn't feature any Russian teams. It was actually not a first. It happened also in 2010. It just shows that the sport is cyclical. In 2022, yup, it was a peak for Russian teams. They had 3 very accomplished teams competing at the Olympics. Yet, they still didn't take that gold. Of course, if the situation were different, these teams would be on the GP circuit. 3 teams, 6 events. Add one of these teams per event, the field is deeper. However, it's not like they always skated perfectly. Deanna and Max at Skate Canada would have been tough to beat by just about anyone. In summer 2022, right after the great retirements and terrible circumstances we all know, some GSers felt pairs would die. Instead, many new teams got formed. Canada's scene has never been deeper, even with Nic and Emma moving on to show skating. Even our junior teams are landing things and winning JGPs events. I know you don't mean to be dismissive towards the athletes right now, but the reality is that constantly saying the field is not good has that effect. After Skate America, who thought Skate Canada would have a much more interesting pairs event? After Skate Canada, who expected the men to shine so much at Grand Prix de France? Each week is full or surprises and to me, that's what so exciting about the current state of pairs skating. There are very young teams of course in the pairs field.. and with hosts spots, when there are only 8 teams competing, of course, it does have an impact. You get the two seeded pairs and depending where one is, 2 or 3 local teams. The field is automatically less balanced in pairs and that has always been the case with the nature of events. Come GPF, come worlds, it will be an epic battle ! Also, keep in mind from the top six at worlds, the original seeds, 1 team retired, 2 are injured. This happens. When the Japanese are healthy again, when Chan and Howe resume competing, already it will change the perception of the field.

I think you misunderstood that one sentence- our point was not if Russians were winners at one competition or not - just that the pairs competitions were looking better as a whole. Now, Deanna and Max at Skate Canada were indeed very good. I'm not saying that the others can't improve too. I'm just commenting on a grand prix competitions i've watched at one point of time, and i have every right to expect more, especially because pairs were always my fav discipline. That doesn't mean i don't think Pereira/Michaud are good and deserved winners here, i would just prefer from all of them to be closer with a level of Duhamel/Radford and Moore-Towers/Marinaro's performances (regarding Canadians - but also from other skaters from other countries - now i'm not expecting that German pairs skate like Savchenko/Massot, or for Chinesse pairs to skate as Sui/Han, but still i expect more of all of them every time). And i certainly hope for no injuries

 

[4everchan]

Deanna and Max at Skate Canada were indeed very very good. I'm not saying that the others can't improve too. I'm just commenting on a grand prix competitions i've watched at one point of time, and i have every right to expect more, especially because pairs were always my fav discipline. That doesn't mean i don't think Pereira/Michaud are good and deserved winners here, i would just prefer from all of them to be closer with a level of Duhamel/Radford and Moore-Towers/Marinaro's performances (regarding Canadians - but also from other skaters from other countries - now i'm not expecting that German pairs skate like Savchenko/Massot, or for Chinesse pairs to skate as Sui/Han, but still i expect more of all of them every time). And i certainly hope for no injuries

I already prefer Lia and Trennt to Moore-Towers Marinaro and these two have only skated together for just over a year... says a lot I understand your point. New teams will get better

 

[Baron Vladimir]

I already prefer Lia and Trennt to Moore-Towers Marinaro and these two have only skated together for just over a year... says a lot I understand your point. New teams will get better

Oh, now i see i made a mistake I actually wanted to mention her partnership with Dilan Moscovitch, and mostly to mention her as a pair skater. But yeah, lets hope for the improvements of the newcomers

 

[4everchan]

Oh, now i see i made a mistake I actually wanted to mention her partnership with Dilan Moscovitch, and mostly to mention her as a pair skater. But yeah, lets hope for the improvements of the newcomers

Kirsten was a star. Agreed. I think Lia can shine just as well. She is so young and new to pairs and already draws me in

 

[iluvtodd]

We're all caught up with watching the competitions. The only thing we haven't seen yet is the Gala, which we'll hopefully get to watch later today. One thought re: the victory ceremonies - I wish GP France would show ALL of the flags of the competitors who medalled during each ceremony while playing the national anthem of the gold medalists.

Very happy for Lia & Trennt & the whole podium!