2024 Team Japan - preliminary list | Golden Skate

2024 Team Japan - preliminary list

KiraraChin

Medalist
Joined
May 5, 2018
Shoma, Yuma, Kaori and Hana are guaranteed a spot at the world team at this point with Kao and Rinka joining them if they do well at nationals. Shun, Kazuki, Sota, Rion and Rino can still get the third spot depending on nationals results.
Really!? So for Shoma, Yuma, Kaori and Hana Nationals is just like an exhibition?
 

KiraraChin

Medalist
Joined
May 5, 2018
It means if they are off the Worlds team after Nationals, JSF will need to explain why.
I mean, as I expected, this should give a huuuuuuge relief for the athlete, so I'm expecting them to perform well just on the basis of being relaxed lol

Whilst I never really liked the fact that JSF relied too much on the results of Nationals, I think they now have swung too far on the other direction IMO.
 

rabidline

Final Flight
Joined
Aug 16, 2018
I mean, as I expected, this should give a huuuuuuge relief for the athlete, so I'm expecting them to perform well just on the basis of being relaxed lol

Whilst I never really liked the fact that JSF relied too much on the results of Nationals, I think they now have swung too far on the other direction IMO.
Honestly to me this list is less about the athletes and more about JSF being held accountable of having the responsibility of selecting the teams for international competitions. With this list out, and as an official document from a sports federation it should be covered by the Japanese sports media outlets. If JSF selects their Worlds team by ignoring the criteria they have decided, JSF is more likely to be asked to explain why instead of letting the skaters out there without explanations and subjecting them to possible hate.

We talk about the singles skaters who are basically a lock for Worlds right now. But to me the one that stands out is the 4CC criteria and how it only has the singles skaters for it, not even Pairs and Ice Dance, even though it's clear by now that Japan has more than 1 eligible senior team for both Pairs and Ice Dance. Why is Worlds listed and 4CC isn't listed? Does that mean Tim and Misato are a lock for Worlds, even though they lost to both Azushin and Utamasa at West Japan Sectionals?

Do you think so lowly of Shoma, Yuma, Kaori and Hana that they will skate Nationals like an exhibition? Do you think they have so little respect to their fellow skaters and competitors that they would skate less than their very best at Nationals? Shoma has said, every single year, that Japanese Nationals is tougher than both Olympics and Worlds- that it is, literally, the battle to the death. This is an audience that knows skating. To make it to Nationals is already a battle for most of the competitors, the career peak for many. To minimize it to be just about who the Worlds team is going to be completely misses the point of the competition, in my opinion.
 
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KiraraChin

Medalist
Joined
May 5, 2018
Honestly to me this list is less about the athletes and more about JSF being held accountable of having the responsibility of selecting the teams for international competitions. With this list out, and as an official document from a sports federation it should be covered by the Japanese sports media outlets. If JSF selects their Worlds team by ignoring the criteria they have decided, JSF is more likely to be asked to explain why instead of letting the skaters out there without explanations and subjecting them to possible hate.
Yeah but 'locking' teams even before Nationals is a bit much IMO.
 

KiraraChin

Medalist
Joined
May 5, 2018
To me it's less cruel than letting everyone have false hope that they all have equal chance to make it to the Worlds team. They don't.
Hmm I don't know about that. As I said, if you have confirmation you are on the team beforehand, that gives you a huge competitive advantage and honestly for me it takes away the edge of what makes Nationals exciting.

I guess the positive is that, since the team is effectively pre-set, I am no longer anxious or excited about Japanese nationals. It is now no more than a formality.
 

Jumping_Bean

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 17, 2022
I'm surprised by the shock here, because none of these criteria are new. 😅 This is how JSF has done Worlds selections for a pretty decent amount of time already, they just usually didn't release these lists until after Nationals.

In fact, the whole reason Rinka went to Worlds despite a disastrous showing at Nationals last season is exactly because she was the only other skater apart from Mai and Kaori who fulfilled any of the criteria. For Sota, it was a similar situation, though they had more range of choice for the men than the women (4-5 skaters who fulfilled the criteria, iirc).
 

rabidline

Final Flight
Joined
Aug 16, 2018
Hmm I don't know about that. As I said, if you have confirmation you are on the team beforehand, that gives you a huge competitive advantage and honestly for me it takes away the edge of what makes Nationals exciting.

I guess the positive is that, since the team is effectively pre-set, I am no longer anxious or excited about Japanese nationals. It is now no more than a formality.
I have the opposite opinion. If anything, knowing that you are likely to be on the team means you have to perform at Japanese Nationals well and justify the selection. That's more pressure, especially knowing what these Nationals mean to these skaters.

Look at Kao, who is in an advantageous position to make it to the Worlds team. His goal this Nationals is still to win the whole thing.
 
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rabidline

Final Flight
Joined
Aug 16, 2018
Also one more thing- Nationals placements determine not just the Worlds and 4CC assignments but also skater funding class and challenger opportunities for next season.

But hey, if you think that's not nerve-wracking and just a "formality", be my guest.
 

KiraraChin

Medalist
Joined
May 5, 2018
Again, having a pre-set list removes the tension because those who are on the pre-set team are effectively secured Special group funding and those who aren't are most likely to make it A funding at best. So the skaters go into nationals already knowing who are the haves and who are the have-nots.

I guess in the lower levels there might be suspense between those making group B or A (or none) in terms of funding.
 

cohkaix

FS data keeper
Medalist
Joined
Mar 9, 2013
Based on the news here: https://mainichi.jp/articles/20231218/k00/00m/050/223000c

  • Of course the winner of the Nationals gets a spot on the team, and Nationals is yet to happen.
  • And, according to the news posted above, the possible candidates for a second spot (to WC) include:
Sr. men: Shoma, Yuma, Kao, Shun
Sr. women: Kaori, Hana, Rion, Rinka, and Rino
  • Adding to the above, other possible candidates for a 3rd spot (to WC) include:
Sr. men: Shoma, Yuma, Kao, Shun, Kazuki, Sota
Sr. women:
Kaori, Hana, Rion, Rinka, Rino, Mone, Yuna

Note each of the candidate above has fulfilled different criteria.
 

surimi

Congrats to Sota, #10 in World Standings!
Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 12, 2013
I'm surprised by the shock here, because none of these criteria are new. 😅 This is how JSF has done Worlds selections for a pretty decent amount of time already, they just usually didn't release these lists until after Nationals.

In fact, the whole reason Rinka went to Worlds despite a disastrous showing at Nationals last season is exactly because she was the only other skater apart from Mai and Kaori who fulfilled any of the criteria. For Sota, it was a similar situation, though they had more range of choice for the men than the women (4-5 skaters who fulfilled the criteria, iirc).
If the criteria were really so widely known, I am guessing Sota wouldn't have been the target of an unsportsmanlike remark by a teammate last year when he was selected. Not gonna give any names because I'm beyond tired of pretty much any exchange of opinions with his vocal fans. But, apparently even skaters themselves were left in the dark re. the criteria.

Again, having a pre-set list removes the tension because those who are on the pre-set team are effectively secured Special group funding and those who aren't are most likely to make it A funding at best. So the skaters go into nationals already knowing who are the haves and who are the have-nots.

I guess in the lower levels there might be suspense between those making group B or A (or none) in terms of funding.

I am with you on this 100%. Guaranteeing spots removes some of the stress for those who do well enough pre-Nationals to secure themselves spots on the team, and funding. For others, the stress is multiplied, knowing there's just, say, one spot which cca 5 people of similar level are fighting for. Which I guess is a handy tool for JSF in eliminating those who are prone to nerves. As far as I am concerned, neither extreme is good.
 

KiraraChin

Medalist
Joined
May 5, 2018
Which I guess is a handy tool for JSF in eliminating those who are prone to nerves
This is an egg and chicken situation because if you know that you are 1- Getting good scores even with mistakes 2- a strong contender for the team already, then it's a situation of 'nerves, what nerves?' it becomes just a walk in the park.

Also, putting so much emphasis on the GP series means basically the fed can manipulate their teams even before the season starts, allocating their chosen ones to easy assignments and making sure they have good scores so they can meet the criteria beforehand.

Whilst I agree not all skaters have the same chances, IMO this list exacerbates the inequality between Japanese skaters. It is truly a more political game than ever.
 

cohkaix

FS data keeper
Medalist
Joined
Mar 9, 2013
I can try to translate the Table of candidates by JSF, but it's going to take me a while to work on each category.

Starting with WC, Sr. men

Sr. men
3 spots
CriteriaCandidates
(in order of ranking)
1st spot1. Nationals-championTBD--------
2nd spot2-A. Nationals - 2nd & 3rd placementsTBDTBD------
2nd2-B. GPF: top 2 placementsShomaYuma*Kao----
2nd 2-C. Top 3 by Seasonal Best (ISU)ShomaYumaKao*Shun--
3rd spot3-A. Skater(s) left out from 2nd spot selectionTBATBA------
3rd3-A. Skater(s) left out from 2nd spot selectionShomaYuma*Kao----
3rd3-A. Skater(s) left out from 2nd spot selectionShomaYumaKao*Shun--
3rd3-B. Top 3 by World Standing (ISU)ShomaKaoKazuki*Shun*Yuma
3rd3-C. Top 3 by SWR (ISU)YumaKaoShoma*Shun*Sota
3rd3-D. Top 3 of average scores (from selected international/domestic competitions)ShomaYumaShun*Kao*Kazuki
 

rabidline

Final Flight
Joined
Aug 16, 2018
I'm kind of... this is exactly why Japanese National is important every year...? Because for the Japanese skaters, the battle for the next season literally begins now. Financial security, Worlds or 4CC assignments that can impact both Challengers and GP assignments... it's all decided here. It's why it's a giant pressure cooker. Everything rides on this! And yes, GP assignments matters. It has mattered for so many years! Which GP the skater gets, whether the scores are more or less generous in that GP, staying healthy to actually make it to the GP.

And considering the Special Class this year includes a lot more skaters than the Worlds team and/or the Nationals podium, I don't think it's a given that the non-Worlds team will get an A class funding at maximum.

Also yes! Exactly! It has always been not equal between the very top and the rest of the skaters!!! The difference is just now it's written on a paper!! Actually, now that you can see this written in black and white, you can understand how hard it is for Japanese skaters- like some skaters get assigned to GPs notorious for lowballing scores, finish higher at Nationals or have a better SB anyway compared to other skaters, and still be overlooked for the Worlds team.

Also you can name names, I won't even try to defend Shoma's "unsportsmanlike" comment last season.
 
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Jumping_Bean

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 17, 2022
Again, having a pre-set list removes the tension because those who are on the pre-set team are effectively secured Special group funding and those who aren't are most likely to make it A funding at best. So the skaters go into nationals already knowing who are the haves and who are the have-nots.

I guess in the lower levels there might be suspense between those making group B or A (or none) in terms of funding.
This has been the case for a while now, so why are you suddenly feeling like there's no tension when you thought there was before? Like, literally nothing has changed. The lists last season weren't released until after Nationals, yes, but the criteria were exactly the same, and those had been released before Nats. Anyone could have made the lists themselves - And people did.

This is an egg and chicken situation because if you know that you are 1- Getting good scores even with mistakes 2- a strong contender for the team already, then it's a situation of 'nerves, what nerves?' it becomes just a walk in the park.

Also, putting so much emphasis on the GP series means basically the fed can manipulate their teams even before the season starts, allocating their chosen ones to easy assignments and making sure they have good scores so they can meet the criteria beforehand.

Whilst I agree not all skaters have the same chances, IMO this list exacerbates the inequality between Japanese skaters. It is truly a more political game than ever.
In any country, there is always a pre-selected group - Skaters who have the necessary minimums, or the technical potential to get them. You win but don't have the TES minimums because you weren't sent out to international competitions? Too bad, you're not going. And apart from Criterion 2b & maybe 3b, you actually don't need a GP, Challengers suffice for SBs scores, Nationals results aren't dependent on GP assignments anyways, and you can be part of the National team without GP assignments.

If the criteria were really so widely known, I am guessing Sota wouldn't have been the target of an unsportsmanlike remark by a teammate last year when he was selected. Not gonna give any names because I'm beyond tired of pretty much any exchange of opinions with his vocal fans. But, apparently even skaters themselves were left in the dark re. the criteria.
I'm sorry but many skaters actually have no idea about rules, and not because the rules aren't being released, if you catch my drift. And even if they do, it doesn't mean they have to be happy about them, or about the way they are applied.
The criteria for last season were published in September of 2022, plenty of time before Nationals. Shoma certainly would have done well reading more and talking less.

And, for example, in 2018-19, the selection criteria for Worlds were as follows:
  1. Nationals winner
  2. From the athletes who meets either of the criteria below
    • a) 2nd and 3rd at Nationals
    • b) 3rd and higher on ISU's World Ranking when Nationals finished
  3. From the athletes who meets either of the criteria below
    • a) skaters who meet the criteria for the 2nd skater but not selected
    • b) 3rd and higher on ISU's WR or SB when Nationals finished
Certainly quite a bit of overlap with how the criteria look today, no? Biggest change being the addition of GPF as a criterion - But that's all it is, a criterion. It just gets you on the list, but you aren't guaranteed a spot unless only three skaters fulfill the criteria.
 
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